# Sarah Palin supports Hamas **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 4, 2008, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-supports-hamas/466417 "2008-10-04T05:11:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-supports-hamas/466417/81 "2008-10-05T01:32:28Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > I predict increased brutality, even nastier lies, from both McCain and Palin in these last few weeks. Hasn’t been pretty so far and it’s gonna get worse, IMO. "Our opponent though, is someone who sees America it seems as being so imperfect that he’s palling around with terrorists who would target their own country?” Sarah Palin, 10-4-08. Didn’t take long, did it. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-supports-hamas/466417/82 "2008-10-05T01:33:50Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > You need to learn the difference between fact and opinion. And you could benefit from remedial lessons in distinguishing “your ass” from “a hole in the ground.” **eleanorigby,** I saw that tactic described as something like “shooting blasts from her Word Confetti Cannon.” Seemed about as accurate a description as you’re gonna find, really… ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-supports-hamas/466417/83 "2008-10-05T01:38:08Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Everything is correct here except the pronoun. Please point out anywhere in this thread where I’ve misrepresented my opinion as fact. I’ve even taken pains to point out it was my opinion. If you are unable to argue with me directly please just remain quiet instead of resorting to this shit. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-supports-hamas/466417/84 "2008-10-05T01:50:36Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I wonder if they’ll get desperate enough to go to the Larry Sinclair card. It wouldn’t surprise me. I bet we’ll at least see them try it via a 527 surrogate. Come again? ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-supports-hamas/466417/85 "2008-10-05T01:52:07Z")
Take cover. Incoming sleaze. The McCain camp has made it official: they don’t want to talk about the economy because that tactic really sucked and it’s all just gotten very awkward, okay? So they’ve decided the appropriate thing is to aggressively [attack Obama’s character.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/03/AR2008100303738.html?hpid=topnews) _That’ll_ prove how statesmanlike McCain and Barbie of the Airwaves really are! They’re prepared to lead, darn it! Why are so many people too stupid and ungrateful to _see_ that? Though I’m sure it’ll be personally distasteful to Maverick Johnny Mac, former POW and Washington outsider, as well as Palin, _way_-outside Washington outsider and fervent Christian to boot. Did you know McCain was a POW? And Obama is Muslim and…black. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-supports-hamas/466417/86 "2008-10-05T02:03:12Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Please point out anywhere in this thread where I’ve misrepresented my opinion as fact. I’ve even taken pains to point out it was my opinion. > > If you are unable to argue with me directly please just remain quiet instead of resorting to this shit. The confusion cuts both ways. Chefguy listed a bunch of facts. You said they were his “opinion” because they don’t support your thesis. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-supports-hamas/466417/87 "2008-10-05T02:11:31Z")
What happened to their promises that they [wouldn’t engage in negative campaigning](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24520111/)? > [@](#): > > Mrs. McCain said that the upcoming campaign against either Sen. Barack Obama or Sen. Hillary Clinton would not engage in negative tactics. > > “We’d rather not win than to have to do that,” Mrs. McCain said. “That’s not worth winning for. This is about being a leader and a person that can be a good example for our children, and a good role model. There’s many, many, many more things to this job than just being the president. You are an example. You have to — you have to be better than that. You have to be.” > > \ > While she said there would be no negative campaigning, she knows it will get intense. > > “Look, this is politics. We’re going to go back and forth,” she said. “There are clear differences in this race between whatever candidates wind up against each other. That’s the beauty of this race … What you’re going to see is a great debate. Which is what the American public deserves. None of this negative stuff, though. You won’t see it come out of our side at all.” :dubious: I’d like to see McCain get directly challenged on this. I’m not too worried about him trying to go this route in the debate, though. It will just make McCain look like an asshole. Especially in a Town Hall format. They’ll probably try to do it using sleazy ads in battleground states. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-supports-hamas/466417/88 "2008-10-05T02:52:17Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > Take cover. Incoming sleaze. The McCain camp has made it official: they don’t want to talk about the economy because that tactic really sucked and it’s all just gotten very awkward, okay? So they’ve decided the appropriate thing is to aggressively [attack Obama’s character.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/03/AR2008100303738.html?hpid=topnews) > > _That’ll_ prove how statesmanlike McCain and Barbie of the Airwaves really are! They’re prepared to lead, darn it! Why are so many people too stupid and ungrateful to _see_ that? > > Though I’m sure it’ll be personally distasteful to Maverick Johnny Mac, former POW and Washington outsider, as well as Palin, _way_-outside Washington outsider and fervent Christian to boot. > > Did you know McCain was a POW? And Obama is Muslim and…black. [One reason we might not be seeing the “Original Maverick” ad anymore…](http://www.kvue.com/video/index.html?nvid=289350) [Here’s the woman’s website](http://www.realoriginalmaverick.com/) Hmmmm…it’s just not his month, is it!? :smack: 😃😛 ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-supports-hamas/466417/89 "2008-10-05T04:40:27Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > The confusion cuts both ways. Chefguy listed a bunch of facts. You said they were his “opinion” because they don’t support your thesis. Wrong, I said they were opinion because that’s what they are. You don’t know the difference either apparently. There’s no dipstick on the economy that you can check to see if it’s in a recession. Saying the economy is in a recession is an opinion. There is no Book of Ultimate Fault that lists the person responsible for events. Saying the Republicans are at fault for the economy doing badly is an opinion. Likewise, saying that the free market doesn’t work is an opinion. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-supports-hamas/466417/90 "2008-10-05T04:52:02Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > There’s no dipstick on the economy that you can check to see if it’s in a recession. Saying the economy is in a recession is an opinion. The Business Cycle Dating Committee at the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER)defines a recession as the time when business activity has reached its peak and starts to fall until the time when business activity bottoms out. When the business activity starts to rise again it is called an expansionary period. By this definition, the average recession lasts about a year. And the standard definition is decline in GDP for two consecutive quarters. Maybe you should consider giving some of that $500 an hour back if this is the quality of your knowledge of economics. > [@](#): > > Likewise, saying that the free market doesn’t work is an opinion. The US Congress, Secretary of the Treasury, the chairman of the SEC the President and the rest of the government just released $700BILLION facts that beg to differ. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-supports-hamas/466417/91 "2008-10-05T05:02:42Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Likewise, saying that the free market doesn’t work is an opinion. Let me ask you something. If the rule that you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-supports-hamas/466417/92 "2008-10-05T05:09:37Z")
Likewise, I see a guy smokes pigeon poop in a hash pipe and gets into arguments with trees, I say he’s crazy. You want to insist that’s just an opinion, well, sure, I guess… ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-supports-hamas/466417/93 "2008-10-05T05:11:04Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > The Business Cycle Dating Committee at the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER)defines a recession as the time when business activity has reached its peak and starts to fall until the time when business activity bottoms out. When the business activity starts to rise again it is called an expansionary period. By this definition, the average recession lasts about a year. > > And the standard definition is decline in GDP for two consecutive quarters. > > Maybe you should consider giving some of that $500 an hour back if this is the quality of your knowledge of economics. Looks like someone just read Wikipedia and thinks he’s the expert on what is and is not a recession. Also, your “standard definition” is just a rule of thumb and —get this— THERE HAS NOT BEEN A DECLINE IN GDP FOR TWO CONSECUTIVE QUARTERS. So by what you consider the “standard definition,” we are NOT in a recession. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-supports-hamas/466417/94 "2008-10-05T05:15:42Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Let me ask you something. If the rule that you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule? ? What “rule” did I use? What I said was a straightforward application of the definition of “opinion.” For fuck’s sake already. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-supports-hamas/466417/95 "2008-10-05T05:17:04Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > —get this— THERE HAS NOT BEEN A DECLINE IN GDP FOR TWO CONSECUTIVE QUARTERS. So by what you consider the “standard definition,” we are NOT in a recession. Get This----I never said we are currently in a recession. I just pointed out that you are full of shit when you say there is no definition of recession. Learn to read. And who cares where I got the definition, it wasn’t Wiki BTW, it is still a definition. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-supports-hamas/466417/96 "2008-10-05T05:28:27Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Get This----I never said we are currently in a recession. I just pointed out that you are full of shit when you say there is no definition of recession. Learn to read. And who cares where I got the definition, it wasn’t Wiki BTW, it is still a definition. You’re right—it is A definition. Also, you can’t weasel out of this that fast. You said that Chefguy stated “facts,” then posted your definition of a recession, which definition actually shows we are not in a recession. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-supports-hamas/466417/97 "2008-10-05T05:32:05Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > You’re right—it is A definition. > > Also, you can’t weasel out of this that fast. You said that Chefguy stated “facts,” then posted your definition of a recession, which definition actually shows we are not in a recession. Cite where I said anything about ChefGuy. I quoted you and responded to you. Again, learn to read. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-supports-hamas/466417/98 "2008-10-05T05:56:03Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Maybe you should consider giving some of that $500 an hour back if this is the quality of your knowledge of economics. Yeah, I mean, really. I thought such BASIC knowledge was a pre-req for posting here. I mean, I’m an IDIOT and I knew that one. You really aren’t worth what you are billing at, **Rand** , and I hope you reflect on that as you pad your timesheet next week. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-supports-hamas/466417/99 "2008-10-05T08:01:45Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Pretty much any time he mentions anything about the economy (or any other matter related to the evil that is money and those who have it). And calling a handout to the poor a “tax cut.” Doesn’t get more ignorant than that. The Economist magazine did a survey of academic economists. Perhaps unsurprisingly most supported Obama. But they also thought that Obama, “has the superior economic plan, a firmer grasp of economics and will appoint better economic advisers.” Then they broke their sample down by political party, be they Democratic, Republican or unaffiliated. “Regardless of party affiliation, our respondents generally agree the economy is in bad shape…”, though Rand Rover disagrees. More: > [@The Economist Magazine](#): > > Eighty per cent of respondents and no fewer than 71% of those who do not cleave to either main party say Mr Obama has a better grasp of economics. Even among Republicans Mr Obama has the edge: 46% versus 23% say Mr Obama has the better grasp of the subject. “I take McCain’s word on this one,” comments James Harrigan at the University of Virginia, a reference to Mr McCain’s infamous confession that he does not know as much about economics as he should. … > > A candidate’s economic expertise may matter rather less if he surrounds himself with clever advisers. Unfortunately for Mr McCain, 81% of all respondents reckon Mr Obama is more likely to do that; among unaffiliated respondents, 71% say so. That is despite praise across party lines for the excellent Doug Holtz-Eakin, Mr McCain’s most prominent economic adviser and a former head of the Congressional Budget Office. That last sentence is telling: Democratic economists are perfectly willing to acknowledge professionalism where they see it. Cite: [http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displaystory.cfm?story\_id=12342127](http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12342127) **Rand Rover** : You are an ignoramus. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-supports-hamas/466417/100 "2008-10-05T10:25:54Z")
I haven’t see the whole interview, but I have to wonder. The point of the question should have been this: “Isn’t it hypocritical for the U.S. to say it wants to bring democracy to other countries, and then say, ‘That is, only democracy that elects people we like.’ Isn’t that just hegemony?” Couric should have rephrased the question that way after Palin clearly didn’t understand what she was getting at. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-supports-hamas/466417.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-supports-hamas/466417.md?page=6)