# Sarah Palin takes no responsibility for the Tucson shootings? Really? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 10, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104 "2011-01-10T16:09:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/181 "2011-01-11T05:12:53Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > That wasn’t what **Bricker** asked, nor was it in my reply. Perhaps you could go back and quote me saying that something was OK? Surely you can do that, right? Surely you haven’t been pussyfooting around, trying to get me in a "gotcha"moment, right? Surely you aren’t making shit up, and then trying to make me defend things I haven’t said, right? > :rolleyes: Oh, I see. He asked why one was dangerous and one was not. > [@](#): > > Why is Palin’s map dangerous and theirs not? So, your explanation was it wasn’t dangerous because the gun imagery wasn’t associated with a particular individual. Is that right? ---
**Author:** ![Walmarticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Walmarticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walmarticus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/182 "2011-01-11T05:23:15Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > The postuirng and threats that were so “cool” until this week are not going to be fogotten NOW. Which is the position many posters seem to have settled on (even though the OP hasn’t been dismissed by anyone for saying something very different). Rhetoricians have exceedingly bad taste. Not just in posters, but music and books. Can’t be helped. You can embarrass them for a spell, but they’ll always go lowbrow. The best thing you can do is improve public policy so future tacky, classless rhetoric fucks up fewer people. It’s much easier to get efficacious policy passed than to get yokel politicians classed. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/183 "2011-01-11T05:23:39Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Oh, I see. He asked why one was dangerous and one was not. > > So, your explanation was it wasn’t dangerous because the gun imagery wasn’t associated with a particular individual. > > Is that right? What the fuck, John? Did someone shoot Missouri? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/184 "2011-01-11T05:26:00Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Oh, I see. He asked why one was dangerous and one was not. > > So, your explanation was it wasn’t dangerous because the gun imagery wasn’t associated with a particular individual. > > Is that right? ’ Hopping in and answering for someone else, assuming that you’re talking about the map Bricker posted a while ago from the DLF or something with bullseye targets on various states, well, I’m not going to say it’s absolutely positively 100% non-dangerous. There’s certainly a possibility that there’s some extremely unstable nutcase out there who thinks that the DLF is the one true voice in American politics, and also owns lots of guns and thinks about most things in terms of guns, and the bullseyes on the map were just enough to push him over the edge, and he would open fire on a Republican politician from that state. Similarly, neither I nor anyone else (as far as I know) said that any particular thing Sarah Palin said or posted was 100% UNsafe. Again, what are the odds that there was a similarly unstable person who thought highly of Sarah Palin, had access to guns, etc., who would be pushed over the edge? Obviously still pretty damn small. But combine the prominence of Sarah Palin, the gun-orientedness of her followers and her rhetoric, and the number of such statements (and web posts) she’s made, and I (and, speaking for them, many other SDMB liberals) think that her statements were multiple orders of magnitude more likely to have such a result. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/185 "2011-01-11T05:27:57Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > What the fuck, John? Did someone shoot Missouri? No, no one shot Missouri. That wasn’t the question, though. Is it OK (or at least “not dangerous”) to use gun imagery as long as it’s not directed at any particular person. That was the question. If you can’t answer it, that’s OK. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/186 "2011-01-11T05:30:42Z")
> [@Walmarticus](#): > > Which is the position many posters seem to have settled on (even though the OP hasn’t been dismissed by anyone for saying something very different). > > Rhetoricians have exceedingly bad taste. Not just in posters, but music and books. Can’t be helped. You can embarrass them for a spell, but they’ll always go lowbrow. > > The best thing you can do is improve public policy so future tacky, classless rhetoric fucks up fewer people. It’s much easier to get efficacious policy passed than to get yokel politicians classed. Or, we could stop defending and voting for the ass hats who pull these stunts. But I forgot. Anyone who isn’t entirely FOR them needs to be taken out. :dubious: Enough is enough. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/187 "2011-01-11T05:31:37Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > How does one “reload” a transit? I will be happy to explain that to you as soon as you explain to me how to reload a gun sight. :rolleyes: Look at what I was responding to, it was not a comment about reloading, it was a comment about cross hairs. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/188 "2011-01-11T05:33:26Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > I will be happy to explain that to you as soon as you explain to me how to reload a gun sight. :rolleyes: > Look at what I was responding to, it was not a comment about reloading, it was a comment about cross hairs. The whole transit thing is an after the fact attempt at denial and damage control. ---
**Author:** ![Walmarticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Walmarticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walmarticus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/189 "2011-01-11T05:36:22Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Or, we could stop defending and voting for the ass hats who pull these stunts. But I forgot. Anyone who isn’t entirely FOR them needs to be taken out. :dubious: > > Enough is enough. Here’s a better suggestion, off the top of my head: Switch the outrage from “OMG a crosshair” to “OMG this man was allowed to buy a gun”. Give it an equal amount of outrage and oh how the reforms would come rolling in. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/190 "2011-01-11T05:37:30Z")
> [@Walmarticus](#): > > I’m honestly wondering if anyone has had a rational response yet for this: > > > [@](#): > > > > friedo View Post > > Please explain what responsibility Palin bears for a psychotic nutball shooting up a Congressional photo-op at a grocery store. > > I think it’s a crucial step we sort of skipped. Or, maybe I skipped it in reading the thread. It goes like this: Step 1: Blame Palin Step 2: ??? Step 3: Profit! I got steps 1 and 3 nailed, but I am still unclear on step 2 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/191 "2011-01-11T05:38:00Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > ’ > > Hopping in and answering for someone else, assuming that you’re talking about the map Bricker posted a while ago from the DLF or something with bullseye targets on various states, well, I’m not going to say it’s absolutely positively 100% non-dangerous. There’s certainly a possibility that there’s some extremely unstable nutcase out there who thinks that the DLF is the one true voice in American politics, and also owns lots of guns and thinks about most things in terms of guns, and the bullseyes on the map were just enough to push him over the edge, and he would open fire on a Republican politician from that state. > > Similarly, neither I nor anyone else (as far as I know) said that any particular thing Sarah Palin said or posted was 100% UNsafe. Again, what are the odds that there was a similarly unstable person who thought highly of Sarah Palin, had access to guns, etc., who would be pushed over the edge? Obviously still pretty damn small. But combine the prominence of Sarah Palin, the gun-orientedness of her followers and her rhetoric, and the number of such statements (and web posts) she’s made, and I (and, speaking for them, many other SDMB liberals) think that her statements were multiple orders of magnitude more likely to have such a result. It’s refreshing to see someone who isn’t in total defense mode when their own political side is put up for scrutiny. But we do have posters here who are trying to draw bright lines about what is dangerous and what is not. I’m just trying to establish where those people are drawing these lines and why. ---
**Author:** ![Walmarticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Walmarticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walmarticus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/192 "2011-01-11T05:40:28Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > It goes like this: > Step 1: Blame Palin > Step 2: ??? > Step 3: Profit! > I got steps 1 and 3 nailed, but I am still unclear on step 2 Political logic is intransitive. Done. Let’s go home. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/193 "2011-01-11T05:41:18Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > The whole transit thing is an after the fact attempt at denial and damage control. Never said it wasn’t. but you guys really don’t read for detail do you? The question I was responding to was > [@](#): > > \*\*Originally Posted by jayjay > Can you provide an example of the use of the word “crosshairs” that doesn’t imply the use of a gunsight? \*\* I supplied one, and now you are trying to move the goal posts by bringing in reloading. Nice try, but no. The question was asked and I answered it. Just because you don’t like the answer, that does not mean you get to move the goal posts. This is not Calvin Ball. ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/194 "2011-01-11T05:43:45Z")
> [@Walmarticus](#): > > Here’s a better suggestion, off the top of my head: > > Switch the outrage from “OMG a crosshair” to “OMG this man was allowed to buy a gun”. > > Give it an equal amount of outrage and oh how the reforms would come rolling in. Ha ha! That’s _hilarious_! No, the reforms would not come rolling in. Instead, we would be having a different conversation, along the same lines as this one, except it would be all about how semi-automatic weapons are perfectly harmless and guns that are bought legally are only ever bought by law-abiding people and why do liberals always have to get their panties in a bunch about MY GODDAMN RIGHT TO COLLECT ROCKET LAUNCHERS!!! IT’S A HOBBY, YOU SECOND AMENDMENT HATER!!! ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/195 "2011-01-11T05:45:27Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > I will be happy to explain that to you as soon as you explain to me how to reload a gun sight. :rolleyes: > Look at what I was responding to, it was not a comment about reloading, it was a comment about cross hairs. So we’re all agreed then that transits are not reloadable, and despite what she says now, Palin must’ve been using weapons imagery, and talking about reloading guns? We’re all agreed she’s lying? ---
**Author:** ![Walmarticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Walmarticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walmarticus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/196 "2011-01-11T05:56:18Z")
> [@C3](#): > > Ha ha! That’s _hilarious_! No, the reforms would not come rolling in. Instead, we would be having a different conversation, along the same lines as this one, except it would be all about how semi-automatic weapons are perfectly harmless and guns that are bought legally are only ever bought by law-abiding people and why do liberals always have to get their panties in a bunch about MY GODDAMN RIGHT TO COLLECT ROCKET LAUNCHERS!!! IT’S A HOBBY, YOU SECOND AMENDMENT HATER!!! An obviously mentally ill man was able to buy a gun and attend a rally armed. People would have been outraged enough to get real shit done, if they weren’t distracted by crosshairs and the guy’s reading list. I sincerely doubt there are many people, including conservatives, who would dispute that an obviously mentally ill person should not be able to buy a handgun and attend a rally armed. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/197 "2011-01-11T06:08:42Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No, no one shot Missouri. Well, they tried but missed and now Kansas is bleeding. ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/198 "2011-01-11T06:08:46Z")
> [@Walmarticus](#): > > An obviously mentally ill man was able to buy a gun and attend a rally armed. People would have been outraged enough to get real shit done, if they weren’t distracted by crosshairs and the guy’s reading list. > > I sincerely doubt there are many people, including conservatives, who would dispute that an obviously mentally ill person should not be able to buy a handgun and attend a rally armed. That’s not the point. The same obfuscating, denial and spin, spin, spin, spin would be happening by the very same people. The conversation would not be about what is obvious to everyone looking at the situation - that a mentally ill person shouldn’t be able to buy guns, should probably have been in some sort of treatment, and certainly shouldn’t have been allowed to approach a politician upon whom he had an unhealthy fixation while carrying a semi-automatic. The conversation would be spun so that all of these issues that are typically the bastion of the left would be scoffed at and blown off as pantywaisted liberal whining. It’s how rightwing apologists work. And they’ve been given valuable lessons by people like Sarah Palin who, instead of saying, “Oops, you know, it was probably a bad idea to put pictures of crosshairs on the names of individual candidates who are running in opposition to my party” says, “Oh, you’re mistaken. Those are, um, uh…surveying marks! Yeah, that’s it!” I keep wanting to say, “You know, we’re standing right here. We did hear what you said. We saw the picture ourselves.” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/199 "2011-01-11T06:11:08Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Oh, I see. He asked why one was dangerous and one was not. > > So, your explanation was it wasn’t dangerous because the gun imagery wasn’t associated with a particular individual. > > Is that right? You’ve made an awful lot of assumptions about me and what I meant, all of which are seemingly based on what you mean or what you want to argue against. Mostly, all you’re doing is showing yourself to be a liar and just generally dishonest, tho. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/200 "2011-01-11T06:13:19Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > I think everyone’s anger at Palin is misguided. Jared Loughner didn’t act out because of any rhetoric Sarah Palin spewed. Rather he was a creation of everything she and every other right-wing conservative stands for these days: destroy public services (including the publically-funded mental health programs that could’ve helped this guy receive treatment) and guarantee a gun in the hands of everyone who wants it. > > Forget all the right-wing rhetoric. Sarah Palin’s crosshairs and Glenn Beck’s chalkboard nonsense didn’t set this guy off. _Over-the-top rhetoric_ didn’t cause this guy to target public officials. It’s the right-wing public policies that did. The shameful way we’ve eliminated mental health programs from state budgets that did. And the “don’t-you-ever-dare-limit-gun-ownership” bullshit that did. > > That’s not to say all of this right-wing rhetoric won’t set someone off in an act of violence at some point-- it may or may not-- but Saturday’s act of violence was carried out by a mentally ill man who had absolutely no business owning a gun or being able to walk into a fucking Walmart and buy boxes of ammo. > > The victims of Saturday’s bloodbath fell prey to conservative policies and legislation run amok in the Wild West. > > The lesson we need to learn from this: Our country needs to pay more attention to treating the mentall ill-- government-run social services \*aren’t \*a bad thing, they keep society at large safe and productive; and we need to stop being so fucking obsessed with being fucking allowed to own a fucking gun. Damn that’s good posting. Even though it’s fairly clear now that the shooter was completely off his rocker, the Palins and Angles and Kellys of this world had to see this coming. Someone was going to physically harm one of their opponents, and when they did, fingers would point at them. And it wouldn’t matter if the assailant was wearing an “I love Rush” shirt or not… they would be implicated. They didn’t see that people outside their most rabid base would raise these questions? Palin, Beck, et al remind me of those goons who hang around fights egging people on to beat the shit out of each other. Then you have people like Giffords trying to break it up… and guess who gets hurt? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104.md?page=11)