# Sarah Palin takes no responsibility for the Tucson shootings? Really? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 10, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104 "2011-01-10T16:09:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![MoGlow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@MoGlow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoGlow)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/241 "2011-01-11T14:38:51Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Where did you get that idea? We are talking about violent imagery used by the right. Show me where the left issues [“conservative hunting permits”](http://boingboing.net/2009/05/05/liberal-hunting-perm.html) and talks about reloading after an election goes bad, or spilling the blood of tyrants. These are violent images that are not found on the left. To listen to the right, we are afraid of guns, and would never think of touching one. Now you are trying to put them in our hands and say we are just as bad as your guys? It is to laugh. You can not be serious. Violent imagery is not found on the left? What about Bill Ayers.? Is he on the left? He killed his own friends and some officers in a bombing. Okay, so maybe you are right, the left doesn’t use imagery, they actually do the bombing. You make me laugh. BTW: No one thinks the left is AFRAID OF GUNS. People simply realize that the left wants to control the guns. Maybe it’s the same philosophy that tax cheat Geithener had. You know he’s above the law, but he would put a common smo’ one of his loyal fans even, in a federal pen for dodging taxes like he did. Step away from the drugs, lefty people, drugs can fry your brain and make you susceptible to brainwashing. Remember it was the liberals who originally championed Hitler and allowed him to rise to power so that he could turn on them and control them. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/242 "2011-01-11T14:42:07Z")
Drive-by posting. Swamped with work. Have not bailed on my own thread. Will read all later today hopefully. Toons ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/243 "2011-01-11T14:43:33Z")
> [@MoGlow](#): > > You can not be serious. Violent imagery is not found on the left. What about Bill Ayers. Is he on the left. At least we have the sense not to nominate our kooks for Vice President, or US Senate. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/244 "2011-01-11T14:44:03Z")
> [@MoGlow](#): > > Another rude ad hominem attack. I said your statement was stupid. An ad hominem attack would be an attack on you as a person. > [@](#): > > Do you see why the provocative ads likely had nothing to do with his attack? Have you bothered to research the shooters history and contact with Gifford? Yes, I’m aware of his history. That doesn’t make your response to **Fear Itself** ’s post valid. And while his actions probably did not have anything to do with anything anyone said, we don’t know at this point. > [@](#): > > Let’s see, when you are dealing with a paranoid schizophrenic reality has nothing to do with their behavior. Maybe God told him to do it, or a vampire or maybe the ghost of Hitler since he was a fan of Mein Kampf and the communist manifesto I don’t know that seems pretty likely, what do you think? I think you’re allowed to make stuff up but everybody else isn’t for some reason. 😉 > [@](#): > > Also the guy is an admitted marijuana and drug user. Ya’ think maybe that caused a psychotic break? The lefties need to stop using drugs, it destroys the brain, it can even cause hallucinations. Yeah, I saw it in that _Reefer Madness_ documentary. > [@](#): > > One of his friends even noted that Gifford’s shooter, Loughner, was a liberal. Someone who hadn’t talked to him in years said he was a liberal in high school. Yes, I’m aware. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/245 "2011-01-11T14:46:22Z")
> [@MoGlow](#): > > BTW: No one thinks the left is AFRAID OF GUNS. People simply realize that the left wants to control the guns. […] Remember it was the liberals who originally championed Hitler and allowed him to rise to power so that he could turn on them and control them. To continue from my previous post, if I said this proves you’re a complete idiot and that nothing you say should be taken seriously because you are dumber than toejam, _that_ would be an ad hominem. ---
**Author:** ![MoGlow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@MoGlow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoGlow)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/246 "2011-01-11T14:48:28Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You keep using that term. i do not think it means what you think it means. Here is the definition of Ad hominem. Referring to the person you are conversing with as stupid implied or directly is an ad hominm attack. You can try to spin your way out of it. But you know what you did. If you do not either you are in serious denial about yourself or you need to step away from the drugs. > **[Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=acL&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=s&defl=en&q=define:ad%2Bhominem&sa=X&ei=LW0sTavSGcP98AaSz4zxCA&ved=0CBMQkAE)** Google can be your friend, my friend. ---
**Author:** ![MoGlow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@MoGlow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoGlow)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/247 "2011-01-11T14:51:30Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > To continue from my previous post, if I said this proves you’re a complete idiot and that nothing you say should be taken seriously because you are dumber than toejam, _that_ would be an ad hominem. Do you know what the word implication means? Google it. Do you know what splitting hairs means? Keep playing innocent. It amuses me. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/248 "2011-01-11T14:53:11Z")
> [@MoGlow](#): > > Here is the definition of Ad hominem. Referring to the person you are conversing with as stupid implied or directly is an ad hominm attack. You can try to spin your way out of it. But you know what you did. If you do not either you are in serious denial about yourself or you need to step away from the drugs. > > [Google Search](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=acL&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=s&defl=en&q=define:ad+hominem&sa=X&ei=LW0sTavSGcP98AaSz4zxCA&ved=0CBMQkAE) > > Google can be your friend, my friend. Saying someone made a stupid argument does not imply that that person is stupid. When come back, bring content. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/249 "2011-01-11T14:54:04Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > To continue from my previous post, if I said this proves you’re a complete idiot and that nothing you say should be taken seriously because you are dumber than toejam, _that_ would be an ad hominem. Since **MoGlow** is new here, I thought he might have joined just to defend The Fair Sarah. No, he joined to start [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=579787). I don’t think Ms Palin has real “responsibility” for the shootings. (The Quitter isn’t very good at taking responsibility for _anything._) Some here may have hoped she could make an intelligent, reasoned, compassionate response to the deaths. Those darn Liberals, always hoping somebody can show a previously unsuspected good side. I’m one, too. But I’ve lived in Texas most of my life & have adjusted my expectations. The bitch is just squirming & whining, as usual… ---
**Author:** ![MoGlow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@MoGlow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoGlow)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/250 "2011-01-11T14:55:58Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Saying someone made a stupid argument does not imply that that person is stupid. > > When come back, bring content. Oh the leftist spin. It’s so cute. It’s okay, I know that whenever the left can not make a intellectual argument they resort ti implied insults than foolishly try to spin their way out of it. I like that. Can you spin some more for me. It kinda makes my point.😛 ---
**Author:** ![MoGlow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@MoGlow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoGlow)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/251 "2011-01-11T14:59:49Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Since **MoGlow** is new here, I thought he might have joined just to defend The Fair Sarah. No, he joined to start [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=579787). > > I don’t think Ms Palin has real “responsibility” for the shootings. (The Quitter isn’t very good at taking responsibility for _anything._) Some here may have hoped she could make an intelligent, reasoned, compassionate response to the deaths. > > Those darn Liberals, always hoping somebody can show a previously unsuspected good side. I’m one, too. But I’ve lived in Texas most of my life & have adjusted my expectations. The bitch is just squirming & whining, as usual… Thank you. I was hoping you would link to that thread. Thanks for playing along.🆒 You are too easy. Seriously, I thought it would take a bit longer. But you did not read the profile. I am a woman, my dear. Now tell me, what do you think of Bill Ayers. He has no insight into the fact that he may have done anything wrong. He has even claimed he regrets not doing more. He’s what they call an un-apoligetic terrorist. > **[HuffPost - Breaking News, U.S. and World News](https://www.huffpost.com/)** > > Read the latest U.S. and world news, politics, entertainment, lifestyle and opinion pieces from HuffPost’s trusted team of journalists. I am waiting for the spin. Yeah, Ayers is normal guy, right? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/252 "2011-01-11T15:00:47Z")
All you’ve shown so far is that it is possible to be a bigger asshole than Bricker. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/253 "2011-01-11T15:01:20Z")
> [@MoGlow](#): > > Referring to the person you are conversing with as stupid implied or directly is an ad hominm attack. You can’t even read a definition. That kind of ignorance may entertain the Freapers, but you will be held to a higher standard here. And, for the record, you are posting in the BBQ Pit; ad hominem is what we do here, _you spunk-reeking crotch maggot_. If you want polite discourse, take it to Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/254 "2011-01-11T15:05:57Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > I don’t think Ms Palin has real “responsibility” for the shootings… No more so than the guy who inspires mayhem by shouting “fire” in a crowded theatre.\* No, all Palin is guilty of is being a jerk, and of wanting violent rhetoric to have nothing but an upside for her and her fellow Republicans. She can’t help being a jerk, and she doesn’t get to dictate to the nation what kinds of trash talk are acceptable. * * * \*Oh, wait, I chose a poor, if somewhat apt ‘metaphor’ there. Ooops. Well, the sedition laws ain’t what they used to be, and that’s, for the most part, a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/255 "2011-01-11T15:06:16Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Since that didn’t really speak to your point: there are two different issues here. Blaming conservatives for making this happen is premature and in bad taste. (So is the pre-emptive ‘don’t let the liberals use this against us’ nonsense.) Asking if it’s possible some of the moronic, violent rhetoric we’ve heard in the last couple of years could have contributed to this is an entirely rational question. I don’t know if the answer is yes, but there’s nothing wrong with the question. I don’t think any of this bullshit about reloading and Second Amendment remedies was intended to inspire murder, but that’s not the only issue. The question is whether this violent, paranoid fearmongering helped cause this to happen. Here in Canada, the tone of the editorials has been something like "in the US, folks are consumed with the issue: ‘did the heated political rhetoric contribute to this tragedy’? Few are asking the more pertinant question: ‘did the fact that a clearly insane man could legally buy a Glock without any problem contribute to this tragedy’? In short, while the question you ask is an important one, all evidence so far received points one way - the guy was crazy, was recognized as dangerously crazy before the shooting by his school, his friends, etc.; that had a grudge against his victim for years for insulting him by making no answer to his insane ramblings; and so while the question of how much his insanity was influenced by the current political climate is of course not answerable definitively, the probable answer is ‘not a lot, or at all’. To my mind, of far greater moment is the ‘why there is no mechanism to prevent the dangerously insane being armed’ one. So long as crazy people can buy guns, crazy people will, on occasion, shoot others. It is a statistical certainty. Perhaps it is a price worth paying, to have the freedom to buy guns without burdensome procedures. If so, it makes more logical sense that it is there that the debate ought to rest, on the cost vs. benefit, not on the plane of partisan politics. Indeed, stressing your question, when the evidence is that it is probably answerable in the negative, just seems an extention of the partisan politics that you rightly decry. It is not of course a call to violence like that so often used by the political right, and for which they should be castigated, but it will (I think correctly) piss them off as being unfair and opportunistic - their point being they will resent having the blame for the acts of a crazy person pinned on them, either directly or because they ‘created an atmosphere of fear and paranoia’ which allegedly ‘inspired’ him. In short, it is putting them in the right, by blaming them when they probably do not bear the blame - for this mass murder. The cruel irony here is that the victim herself was allegedly a champion of gun ownership rights. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/256 "2011-01-11T15:08:10Z")
That might ultimately be a more substantive issue. And the same goes for the questions this raises about the amount of resources society devotes to people who are mentally ill. ---
**Author:** ![MoGlow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@MoGlow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoGlow)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/257 "2011-01-11T15:12:55Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > At least we have the sense not to nominate our kooks for Vice President, or US Senate. You need to educate yourself. You do know that Joe Biden had two cerebral hemmorhages, right. Do some reading. The guy can not possibly be functioning without some brain damage. So you elected a brain damaged vice president. BTW: You do know that Obama has often used violent rhetoric during his campaign? [http://www.wral.com/golo/blogpost/8916705/](http://www.wral.com/golo/blogpost/8916705/) > [@](#): > > Here are Obama’s violent words: \* “So I know whose ass to kick.” > \* “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun.” > \* and “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry. I’m angry.” > [@](#): > > Some more words from Obama: > > Obama said: “I don’t want to quell anger,” Obama said. “I think people are right to be angry. I’m angry.” > > That same year, he attacked his critics, saying, “I don’t want the folks who created the mess to do a lot of talking. I want them to get out of the way so we can clean up the mess. I don’t mind cleaning up after them, but don’t do a lot of talking.” Also, you do know, or maybe you don’t, but google it, anyway, the majority of sociopaths/psychopaths do not physically kill someone. You do know that a preponderance of politicians exhibit sociopathic/psychopathic tendencies, yet they lack insight into this behavior and will deny it, even make excuses for it. Psychopaths are typically blamers, too. Like most dems ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/258 "2011-01-11T15:13:51Z")
But Loughner, like so many other gun attackers before him, had until then been a “law-abidinig citizen” and therefore someone whose Second Amendment “rights” had to be protected. The even broader issue is the extremists’ reflexive antipathy to the very notion of responsible gun control laws, a view that constantly stymies any progress on the problem. Even something as simple and obvious and meager as an assault weapon ban, like the Clinton one that would have prevented Loughner from firing more than 10 bullets from a legal gun, gets demagogued by the fantasists. ---
**Author:** ![MoGlow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@MoGlow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoGlow)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/259 "2011-01-11T15:15:00Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > All you’ve shown so far is that it is possible to be a bigger asshole than Bricker. Another ad hominem attack from a liberal. Oh, you guys are too cooperative. ---
**Author:** ![MoGlow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@MoGlow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoGlow)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/260 "2011-01-11T15:16:46Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You can’t even read a definition. That kind of ignorance may entertain the Freapers, but you will be held to a higher standard here. > > And, for the record, you are posting in the BBQ Pit; ad hominem is what we do here, _you spunk-reeking crotch maggot_. If you want polite discourse, take it to Great Debates. Keep whipping the dead horse of denial, instead of adding anything of value with real information that is true and verifiable. Your assumptions amuse me and you do me a favor by posting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104.md?page=14)