# Sarah Palin takes no responsibility for the Tucson shootings? Really? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 10, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104 "2011-01-10T16:09:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![MoGlow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@MoGlow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoGlow)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/281 "2011-01-11T16:07:52Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yeah, I saw it in that _Reefer Madness_ documentary. Marley23: Reefer madness is a really old movie. It was done far before they had brain imaging equipment that can actually track a psychotic break. Yes. Marijuana, based on numerous studies can cause psychotic breaks in people pre-disposed to mental illness. It should be no surprise based on the known effects of marijuana. I mean it’s not a great intellectual leap to connect the use of certain drugs to a psychotic break. Here are some more links since your basis of information seems to be “reefer madness” a reeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaly old outdated moralistic documentary. 😛 > **[A psychotic break](https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/A+psychotic+break)** > > Definition of A psychotic break in the Medical Dictionary by The Free Dictionary > [@](#): > > With regard to substance abuse, several different research groups reported in 2004 that cannabis (marijuana) use is a risk factor for the onset of psychosis. and more… > **[Psychosis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosis)** > > In psychopathology, psychosis is a condition in which one is unable to distinguish, in one's experience of life, between what is and is not real. Examples of psychotic symptoms are delusions, hallucinations, and disorganized or incoherent thoughts or speech. Psychosis is a description of a person's state or symptoms, rather than a particular mental illness, and it is not related to psychopathy (a personality construct characterized by impaired empathy and remorse, along with bold, dis Common caus... > [@](#): > > Psychoactive drugs > Main article: Substance-induced psychosis > > Various psychoactive substances (both legal and illegal) have been implicated in causing, exacerbating, and/or precipitating psychotic states and/or disorders in users. Frequency use of cannibis doubles both the risk of psychosis and schizophrenia.[55] Are you a marijuana user, Marley? ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/282 "2011-01-11T16:11:28Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Debating whether Sarah Palin did or did not have a crosshairs aimed at Gabby Giffords on her website, or which Democratic candidates have used gun imagery in their campaign ads is deflecting the debate from what really matters… Why does the debate have to be limited to one aspect of the crime? Are we not capable of having several discussions at once? > [@Zebra](#): > > So everyone attacking SP (I am loath to write her name btw) are you now all censors? Will you censor speech? Will you force everyone to not use any violent metaphors, because there may be someone who may do something? Nobody (on this thread and that I’ve seen debating this in other venues) has advocated for charging Palin, et al with a crime or for making violent political rhetoric illegal. What I’m personally hoping for is some self-control from political figures and public acknowledgment that they need to dial it back. I also wouldn’t mind for it to become socially unacceptable for people to make violent comments. The sort of national debate about violent rhetoric that’s arising from this shooting is hopefully letting people know that most people find that sort of thing abhorrent. Maybe next year, I won’t have to hear this crap from my Tea Partying relatives while I’m eating my Thanksgiving dinner. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/283 "2011-01-11T16:16:28Z")
Am I tho only one who thought the OP was using SP’s simply as one very extreme example of the type of undesireable rhetoric we have seen/heard lately? As far as the map is concerned, I’ve always been somewhat interested in maps, probably due to my dad having worked for Rand McNally for all the time I knew him until he retired. I can’t recall ever seeing “crosshairs” on a map. Has any one else? Not saying it has never been done (and I have never done surveying." But to describe them as “crosshairs such as you would see on a map…” :rolleyes: Re: the targets on the Dem map. A couple of things. First, don’t those resemble archery targets more than firearm? Second, I feel there is a subtle distinction between a passive target, and a targeting device sich as a crosshairs or gunsight, which at least implies either some action or a different perspective. Not having a good time explaining it, but the thing you aim AT seems to send a subtly different image than the thing you aim WITH. Not sure which is better or worse. And it shocks me that folk would seriously suggest that on a whole liberals use as violent terms in their speeches and such as conservatives. (With one exception - if someone considers aortion to be murder.) Haven’t done a study or anything, but guns - and a readiness to resort to them - just impress me as so much more closely tied up with conservative causes and messages than liberal ones. Maybe I’ll start a GD… Disclaimer, tho extremely “liberal” on just abut every issue, I recently changed my mind WRT gun ownership and am now a pretty strong supporter of what would be considered 2d amendment rights. My “conversion” occurred under the prior adminstration. As I felt rights I consider extremely important (speech, privacy, etc.) to be threatened, I gained sympathy for folks who value 2d amendment rights as highly as I value others. And it took the prospect of a government as intrusive as we were seeing to make me appreciate the benefit of a well armed populace against excessive actions by our own government. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/284 "2011-01-11T16:17:31Z")
> [@MoGlow](#): > > Reefer madness is a really old movie. Yes, toejam, I’m aware it’s an old movie. That might be the first accurate thing you’ve said here. Stop doing that or people might mistake you for dryer lint. ---
**Author:** ![MoGlow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@MoGlow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoGlow)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/285 "2011-01-11T16:17:33Z")
> [@C3](#): > > What I’m personally hoping for is some self-control from political figures and public acknowledgment that they need to dial it back. I also wouldn’t mind for it to become socially unacceptable for people to make violent comments. The sort of national debate about violent rhetoric that’s arising from this shooting is hopefully letting people know that most people find that sort of thing abhorrent. Maybe next year, I won’t have to hear this crap from my Tea Partying relatives while I’m eating my Thanksgiving dinner. So C3: I guess you won’t be voting for Obama. Obama’s campaing rhetoric is frequently violent in imagery as well as racially divisive. He also seems to be rallying class warfare. So, I am sure if you really do abhor such speech, you would not want to vote for Obama, right. Here’s a copy of part of a post with links I posted up further. You seemed to have missed it. You do know that Obama has often used violent rhetoric during his campaign? > [@](#): > > [http://www.wral.com/golo/blogpost/8916705/](http://www.wral.com/golo/blogpost/8916705/) > > Quote: > Here are Obama’s violent words: \* “So I know whose ass to kick.” > > - “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun.” > - and “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry. I’m angry.” > Quote: > Some more words from Obama: > > Obama said: “I don’t want to quell anger,” Obama said. “I think people are right to be angry. I’m angry.” > > That same year, he attacked his critics, saying, “I don’t want the folks who created the mess to do a lot of talking. I want them to get out of the way so we can clean up the mess. I don’t mind cleaning up after them, but don’t do a lot of talking.” ---
**Author:** ![MoGlow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@MoGlow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoGlow)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/286 "2011-01-11T16:19:44Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Am I tho only one who thought the OP was using SP’s simply as one very extreme example of the type of undesireable rhetoric we have seen/heard lately? > > As far as the map is concerned, I’ve always been somewhat interested in maps, probably due to my dad having worked for Rand McNally for all the time I knew him until he retired. I can’t recall ever seeing “crosshairs” on a map. Has any one else? Not saying it has never been done (and I have never done surveying." But to describe them as “crosshairs such as you would see on a map…” :rolleyes: > > Re: the targets on the Dem map. A couple of things. First, don’t those resemble archery targets more than firearm? Second, I feel there is a subtle distinction between a passive target, and a targeting device sich as a crosshairs or gunsight, which at least implies either some action or a different perspective. Not having a good time explaining it, but the thing you aim AT seems to send a subtly different image than the thing you aim WITH. Not sure which is better or worse. > > And it shocks me that folk would seriously suggest that on a whole liberals use as violent terms in their speeches and such as conservatives. (With one exception - if someone considers aortion to be murder.) Haven’t done a study or anything, but guns - and a readiness to resort to them - just impress me as so much more closely tied up with conservative causes and messages than liberal ones. Maybe I’ll start a GD… > > Disclaimer, tho extremely “liberal” on just abut every issue, I recently changed my mind WRT gun ownership and am now a pretty strong supporter of what would be considered 2d amendment rights. My “conversion” occurred under the prior adminstration. As I felt rights I consider extremely important (speech, privacy, etc.) to be threatened, I gained sympathy for folks who value 2d amendment rights as highly as I value others. And it took the prospect of a government as intrusive as we were seeing to make me appreciate the benefit of a well armed populace against excessive actions by our own government. Can you spell denial and hypocrisy? ---
**Author:** ![MoGlow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@MoGlow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoGlow)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/287 "2011-01-11T16:21:57Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yes, toejam, I’m aware it’s an old movie. That might be the first accurate thing you’ve said here. Stop doing that or people might mistake you for dryer lint. Hey Marley: I love your uh…rather intellectual postings filled with nothing but gibberish. Keep at it my friend. You are single handedly helping my cause. Which is to show the liberals are hypocrites who when threatened resort to amorphous insults. :);)😃 ---
**Author:** ![MoGlow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@MoGlow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoGlow)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/288 "2011-01-11T16:24:46Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I am perfectly willing to hand off my username to you. I have no doubt. I am sure you want to be just like me and trade names. I mean your self esteem, based on your screen name, is abysmal. But you have to show some substance first if you want to be like me. So far your posts contain nothing but pointless innuendo (no I did not miss your innuendo as you seem to think) and silly juvenile insults. Do you agree? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/289 "2011-01-11T16:28:37Z")
> [@MoGlow](#): > > You are single handedly helping my cause. That makes one of us. Unless your cause is making yourself look like an ass. The nonsense requests for cites are a nice touch. ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/290 "2011-01-11T16:30:28Z")
> [@MoGlow](#): > > So C3: > > I guess you won’t be voting for Obama. Obama’s campaing rhetoric is frequently violent in imagery as well as racially divisive. He also seems to be rallying class warfare. So, I am sure if you really do abhor such speech, you would not want to vote for Obama, right. > > Here’s a copy of part of a post with links I posted up further. You seemed to have missed it. > > You do know that Obama has often used violent rhetoric during his campaign? 😛 You’re funny. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/291 "2011-01-11T16:37:46Z")
> [@MoGlow](#): > > Can you spell denial and hypocrisy? Yes, certainly, tho I suspect your pithy post is intended as a criticism of me and/or my views. Please tell me what portions of my post represent either? If it makes you any happier, I’ll acknowlledge that my previous post could have been better served by an additional line or 2 between the first 2 paragraphs. Essentially, I indicated my first paragraph to convey my thought that focusing on these couple of instances/maps was pretty silly, and that I thought the appropriate discussion should concern recent trends in political rhetoric. Beginning with my second paragraph , I observed that if we were going to focus on the maps, I thought that a meaningful distinction could be drawn between the use of the images used. Do you feel such distinctions are unfounded? I am pretty comfortable that the people planning national PR campaigns are well-aware of the subtle differences between something that is aimed at, and something that is used in the act of aiming. Do think otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/292 "2011-01-11T16:39:22Z")
> [@C3](#): > > Nobody (on this thread and that I’ve seen debating this in other venues) has advocated for charging Palin, et al with a crime or for making violent political rhetoric illegal. I have to take this back. I just saw a headline that says Julian Assange thinks that Sarah Palin and a bunch of others should be prosecuted for incitement. He’s coming from a bit of a different perspective than most, though (as he’s had the violent rhetoric aimed at him personally, also): [QUOTE=Press release] WikiLeaks staff and contributors have also been the target of unprecedented violent rhetoric by US prominent media personalities, including Sarah Palin, who urged the US administration to ‘Hunt down the WikiLeaks chief like the Taliban’. Prominent US politician Mike Huckabee called for the execution of WikiLeaks spokesman Julian Assange on his Fox News program last November, and Fox News commentator Bob Beckel, referring to Assange, publicly called for people to ‘illegally shoot the son of a bitch.’ US radio personality Rush Limbaugh has called for pressure to ‘Give [Fox News President Roger] Ailes the order and [then] there is no Assange, I’ll guarantee you, and there will be no fingerprints on it.’, while the Washington Times columnist Jeffery T. Kuhner titled his column ‘Assassinate Assange’ captioned with a picture Julian Assange overlayed with a gun site, blood spatters, and ‘WANTED DEAD or ALIVE’ with the alive crossed out. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/293 "2011-01-11T16:44:35Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > As far as the map is concerned, I’ve always been somewhat interested in maps, probably due to my dad having worked for Rand McNally for all the time I knew him until he retired. I can’t recall ever seeing “crosshairs” on a map. Has any one else? Not saying it has never been done (and I have never done surveying." But to describe them as “crosshairs such as you would see on a map…” :rolleyes: My parents were both cartographers and I’ve seen\* those symbols on maps…of course they worked for the Department of Defense. \*actually, I haven’t seen them because the stuff they worked on was classified…I just couldn’t resist the joke 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/294 "2011-01-11T16:49:07Z")
> [@MoGlow](#): > > But you have to show some substance first if you want to be like me. So far your posts contain nothing but pointless innuendo (no I did not miss your innuendo as you seem to think) and silly juvenile insults. Do you agree? I take them as I find them. I find you to be a total douchebag (and it’s hard for anyone to convince me so completely that they’re worthless in just one page) so I’m addressing you at a level you’ll understand. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/295 "2011-01-11T17:23:38Z")
> [@MoGlow](#): > > Oh the leftist spin. It’s so cute. > > It’s okay, I know that whenever the left can not make a intellectual argument they resort ti implied insults than foolishly try to spin their way out of it. > > I like that. Can you spin some more for me. It kinda makes my point.😛 Looks like you also may require reading glasses. I’m not a leftist, and I’m not spinning anything. “Your argument is stupid” does not equate to or imply “You are stupid.” “Your argument is stupid” is not an ad hominem. No matter how many times you assert the contrary. Facts. Reality. These are the currency of the realm. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/296 "2011-01-11T17:25:34Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > All you’ve shown so far is that it is possible to be a bigger asshole than Bricker. Well, now, let’s not be hasty.. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/297 "2011-01-11T17:38:58Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Even something as simple and obvious and meager as an assault weapon ban, like the Clinton one that would have prevented Loughner from firing more than 10 bullets from a legal gun, gets demagogued by the fantasists. This is an absolutely and deliberately false statement, and you know it because you’ve been schooled on this message board innumerable times on the subject. **Regardless of anyone’s position on gun control** , the Clinton AWB which you yourself reference did NOT ban large capacity magazines in existence at the time of its passage, and up until the day it was defeated they were readily available at any gun shop for a trivial cost - assuming one hadn’t bought them beforehand. Even by the mid-2000’s one could buy magazines like the fucking lunatic bought for less than $20. And ot be pedantic about it, the AWB would have still allowed _11_ shots, not 10, without reloading, and you know this too as you have been schooled in it before. Given your incredibly long history of complete and utter mendacity on anything involving guns on this message board, I don’t expect you to have the honesty and honour to admit that you’re wrong, let alone that you lied AGAIN, but I thought I should call you on your bullshit so no one else will get the wrong impression about the **facts.** And FTR, Sooper Genius, Bricker has you on Ignore, and he’s had you on Ignore for probably a year or more. This is obvious to anyone with a brain, and your continued stalking of his posts around this message board to try to engage him and snipe at him really gives one the impression that you’re a creepy and somewhat obsessed individual. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/298 "2011-01-11T17:40:26Z")
So the AWB didn’t go far enough, **Una**? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/299 "2011-01-11T17:42:41Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > And FTR, Sooper Genius, Bricker has you on Ignore, and he’s had you on Ignore for probably a year or more. That doesn’t mean much. He has me on ignore also, but that’s just because he got tired of losing money to me. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/300 "2011-01-11T17:52:30Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > That doesn’t mean much. He has me on ignore also, but that’s just because he got tired of losing money to me. I want to know who the ‘Sooper Genius’ is so I can get an autograph. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104.md?page=16)