# Sarah Palin takes no responsibility for the Tucson shootings? Really? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 10, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104 "2011-01-10T16:09:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/341 "2011-01-12T03:35:03Z")
_BLAM_ _BLAM_ Yeah. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/342 "2011-01-12T03:36:59Z")
Weren’t any theodolites in Waco that I recall, we had enough to deal with from the Baptists. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/343 "2011-01-12T03:57:45Z")
[Quote=Darth Nader] I just want to step in and thank Jesus that I live in Texas, where they will never come to pry my open-carry theodolite from my cold dead hands. [/Quote] > [@elucidator](#): > > Weren’t any theodolites in Waco that I recall, we had enough to deal with from the Baptists. I think we’re finally getting to the bottom of this thing. Who now doubts that Ms. Palin and the Tea Partiers are trying gain power so they can install a theodolocracy? ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/344 "2011-01-12T04:17:31Z")
[This video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V17WGTvPHGg) should clear things up. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/345 "2011-01-12T05:03:03Z")
> [@Darth\_Nader](#): > > I just want to step in and thank Jesus that I live in Texas, where they will never come to pry my open-carry theodolite from my cold dead hands. And you can reload it with a big a clip as you can carry ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/346 "2011-01-12T05:09:36Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > No she doesn’t. > Irrelevant. She isn’t playing the victim card to avoid being blamed for the murders (a charge nobody outside the irrelevant peanut gallery is making). She is playing the victim card to avoid taking any responsibility for tastelessly debasing the tone of public debate, a charge of which she is guilty, guilty, guilty. Have you read the title of the thread you’re posting in? ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/347 "2011-01-12T06:32:04Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > What I also think in my liberal heart of hearts is that I’m grateful that these stupid people who don’t speak for me are just stupid people on a street corner holding up a stupid sign they made, rather than being stupid people in positions of power and authority who influence other stupid people into acting stupidly. > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > There is, however, an important difference. Sean Penn (to pull a random name out of a hat, no idea if he’s said specific things along this vein) is clearly “on my side” on a number of (although not all) issues. But I’m not an officially registered dues paying member of any organization which has endorsed Sean Penn (to the best of my knowledge). Certainly not one that has through a deliberative and democratic process chosen Sean Penn as one of its most prominent national leaders. That’s what’s different between Sean Penn and Sarah Palin. > > . . . > > But who was it done by? Someone who even in the vaguest sense represents me (a registered democrat) and/or the Democratic party? Or some random guy at a rally, or borderline media celebrity like Dan Savage? If Joe Biden did that and I’ve been failing to condemn it up until now, well, I’ll do it now, and I’ve been an unknowing hypocrite for not condemning it sooner. If not, well, then, what’s your point? > > . . . > > But I strongly maintain that the vast, vast majority of inflammatory-to-violence rhetoric in the political sphere has come from the right, and that is particularly true if one restricts the analysis to people who have official standing (ie, nominees, elected officials, members of staffs), and even more true if one extends that to best-selling authors and pundits. To me this is one of the important distinctions in this conversation. But to fully illustrate it, we can’t just point to Sarah Palin, but must include all the other elected officials and candidates for elected office who have contributed to this atmosphere of violence and hate. As far as I’m aware, Democrats had one guy who sunk lower than pond scum when it came to political campaign rhetoric, and that was Alan Grayson, when he called his opponent “Taliban Dan”. Not only did Grayson’s ads equate his opponent with the evils of the Taliban, but he knowingly and intentionally edited video footage to make it appear as if his opponent said the exact opposite of what he actually said. And when the national public became aware of that ad, he was called out on it all over the “liberal” media and raked over the coals for it. In addition, I went to his website and used his office address as my own to get past the feature that only allows people in his district to write to him, and wrote a scathing rebuke. And then I phoned his office and made my feelings known as well. How many Republicans did the same when any of the following were spewed by those on their side of the political line? ``` [ul] ``` [li]An elected Representative called for Democrats in Congress to be investigated as _un-American_![/li][li] A former Governor and former Vice Presidential candidate put rifle crosshairs on a map, aimed at specific people in Congress.[/li][li] Elected Representatives accused our President of “palling around with terrorists”![/li][li] Elected Representatives accused Democrats of wanting to kill people’s grandmothers![/li][li] An opponent to a sitting Congresswoman held an event at a firing range and put his Democratic opponent’s initials on the silhouette he was firing at![/li][li] A candidate for office told an interviewer that people may have to exercise their Second Amendment rights if they don’t get their way at the polls.[/li][li] A former Governor and former Vice Presidential candidate “tweeted” “Don’t Retreat, Instead - RELOAD!”[/li][li] An elected Representative told her constituents she wanted them “armed and dangerous” over a political issue.[/li][li] An elected Representative quoted Thomas Jefferson, saying we need to have a freaking \*revolution \*every so many years.[/li][/ul] Sarah Palin’s map with crosshairs aimed at specific members of Congress cannot be viewed as a stand-alone gimmick, but needs to be seen as just one of many, many hate-inducing and violence-provoking imagery perpetuated by the Right for the past 2 years. These acts and statements are _intentionally_ inciteful. They are _meant_ to stir up not just anger, but hatred. And they’re spoken by people of influence. People who are looked up to as representing The People. By that very nature, they should be held to a higher standard in their rhetoric than the average nutjob with some poster board and a pen or access to an internet blog. Taken as a whole, it’s difficult to deny that the Right has been creating an atmosphere where this kind of act should not have come as a surprise, _even if there are no “direct” lines that can be drawn to any “specific” one person, image or statement_. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > It’s refreshing to see someone who isn’t in total defense mode when their own political side is put up for scrutiny. > > But we do have posters here who are trying to draw bright lines about what is dangerous and what is not. I’m just trying to establish where those people are drawing these lines and why. I believe you and **Bricker** are being disingenuous, feigning ignorance of the difference between “targeting” something and placing the crosshairs of a gunsight on specific members of Congress. You know full well that “to target” is in use in the common vernacular without any hint of violence attached to it. Television programming “targets” certain audiences. Product manufacturers “target” certain markets. Sales departments “target” certain goals. For crying out loud, there’s even a major department store whose _name and logo_ is Target. On the other hand, until this election cycle, I don’t recall ever seeing the crosshairs of a gunsight being used to mean anything but what they actually represent – the crosshairs of a **gun**. And placing them on a map and naming the sitting Representatives in Congress that they are aimed at, denotes a very specific image that no one can pretend is commonly understood to be non-violent. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/348 "2011-01-12T06:49:09Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > T And placing them on a map and naming the sitting Representatives in Congress that they are aimed at, denotes a very specific image that no one can pretend is commonly understood to be non-violent. Sure they can pretend. They’re doing it right now. “Oh, those were surveyor’s symbols” “Gosh, we sure didn’t mean for anything to happen” “There is no direct link” “It’s merely symbolic. Or a metaphor. Or something. Please look the other way.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/349 "2011-01-12T07:39:43Z")
I think The Mallign Sarah’s fifteen minutes are up. I expect her either to make a move to WWF or cut an album with Madonna. You got two counter-current visceral reactions here. And there is nothing reasonable about any of this, so lets not concern ourselves with the opinions of people who are dependent upon facts, there are too few of us and nobody else cares what we think. _Of course_ the shooters political opinions and/or motivations don’t matter, its pretty likely he’s crazy. What difference does it make if he shot the Congresswoman to advance the cause of anarcho-syndicalism or to impress Jodie Foster? He’s nuts! But the visceral reaction to blame those who have made the atmosphere so venomous and nasty, that’s pretty human, entirely reactive, brainstem. The opposite visceral reaction is blame that nasty liberal media for telling those awful lies about the Grisly Mamma. Usually, the Forces of Darkness play upon those visceral feelings like the Phantom of the Opera playing the Wurlitzer. Maybe this time it blew up in their faces, freebasing hate. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/350 "2011-01-12T09:00:50Z")
I like [Gary Varvel](http://blogs.indystar.com/varvelblog/2011/01/10/tragedy-in-tucson/)’s take. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/351 "2011-01-12T11:49:41Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Irrelevant. She isn’t playing the victim card to avoid being blamed for the murders (a charge nobody outside the irrelevant peanut gallery is making). She is playing the victim card to avoid taking any responsibility for tastelessly debasing the tone of public debate, a charge of which she is guilty, guilty, guilty. She’s playing the victim card because for some fucking reason that is beyond comprehension the left are acting in a manner as tasteless and barrel scraping as her mob. A lunatic has shot some people. That’s a horrible thing, and there’s a lot of people who are now suffering because of it, and it should be treated with appropriate respect . Well, I find it hard to view the sniffy attempts at point scoring here as anything other than disrespectful to those hurt. Then again, that’s hardly a surprise. If there’s one thing my non-american arse has learnt from the years I’ve been kicking around this board it’s that both sides of American politics would really benefit from growing the fuck up and stopping in the constant attempts to use blame the other side for every fucking bad thing that occurs. It really is depressing. Is Palin a tasteless, vile harpy? Fucking right she is. Does that have anything to do with a nutter taking a gun to a group of people, supposedly because he felt slighted by a response to Gifford to him in 2007? The fuck it does. Grow up. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/352 "2011-01-12T12:39:51Z")
[She finally speaks.](http://vimeo.com/18698532) Of course, she’s the victim in all this and “both sides” use maps with targets. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/353 "2011-01-12T12:50:23Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > She’s playing the victim card because …the other 51 cards went missing ages ago. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/354 "2011-01-12T12:54:07Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > …the other 51 cards went missing ages ago. If you want to justifiably criticise Palin you’re spoilt for choice as to where to start. The woman is a walking joke. God fucking help you if she ever makes it into office, and god help the rest of the world too. But blaming her for the Tucson shootings, because she uses aggressive words & imagery in her campaigning? Please. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/355 "2011-01-12T13:00:27Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > [She finally speaks.](http://vimeo.com/18698532) Another performance of the one-note Palin aria: MeMeMEMEEEEEE… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/356 "2011-01-12T13:07:27Z")
Which is a good reason to deny her the opportunity to sound off whenever possible. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/357 "2011-01-12T13:47:03Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > She’s playing the victim card because for some fucking reason that is beyond comprehension the left are acting in a manner as tasteless and barrel scraping as her mob. > > A lunatic has shot some people. That’s a horrible thing, and there’s a lot of people who are now suffering because of it, and it should be treated with appropriate respect . Well, I find it hard to view the sniffy attempts at point scoring here as anything other than disrespectful to those hurt. Then again, that’s hardly a surprise. If there’s one thing my non-american arse has learnt from the years I’ve been kicking around this board it’s that both sides of American politics would really benefit from growing the fuck up and stopping in the constant attempts to use blame the other side for every fucking bad thing that occurs. It really is depressing. > > Is Palin a tasteless, vile harpy? Fucking right she is. Does that have anything to do with a nutter taking a gun to a group of people, supposedly because he felt slighted by a response to Gifford to him in 2007? The fuck it does. Grow up. Considering that one of the people “hurt” fucking raised the same questions about Sarah Palin’s graphic, noting that there are consequences to such actions, it hardly seems disrespectful to re-ask her same questions now. Was she part of the “barrel scraping” mob, in your opinion, or does her actually being shot in the head change the nature of the discussion? People with schizophrenia aren’t completely without influence from without. I have no idea whether this specific graphic or the general tone of the larger political discourse had anything to do with his actions. But his being a “nutter” does not render the question irrelevant. Further, before making suggestions that people should not retreat, but should re-load, or that they should seek second amendment solutions, people making these kind of comments should know that there are about 30,000 people with schizophrenia out there. Beyond that, who knows how many true believers without schizophrenia there are who might react in the same way that this guy did even absent any schizophrenia? So go pout and be depressed all you like. It’s a reasonable question to pose. Just ask Gabrielle Giffords. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/358 "2011-01-12T14:15:28Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > [She finally speaks.](http://vimeo.com/18698532) Of course, she’s the victim in all this and “both sides” use maps with targets. I tried to listen to the video, but it was too much political blahblahblah. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/359 "2011-01-12T14:22:51Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I tried to listen to the video, but it was too much political blahblahblah. You can find a transcript [here.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/12/sarah-palin-arizona-shooting-statement_n_807833.html) Choice quotes: > [@](#): > > But, especially within hours of a tragedy unfolding, journalists and pundits should not manufacture a blood libel that serves only to incite the very hatred and violence they purport to condemn. That is reprehensible… > > Acts of monstrous criminality stand on their own. They begin and end with the criminals who commit them, not collectively with all the citizens of a state, not with those who listen to talk radio, not with maps of swing districts used by both sides of the aisle,… > > There are those who claim political rhetoric is to blame for the despicable act of this deranged, apparently apolitical criminal. And they claim political debate has somehow gotten more heated just recently. But when was it less heated? Back in those “calm days” when political figures literally settled their differences with dueling pistols?.. > > Recall how the events of 9-11 challenged our values and we had to fight the tendency to trade our freedoms for perceived security. And so it is today… > > We are better than the mindless finger-pointing we endured in the wake of the tragedy. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/360 "2011-01-12T14:28:34Z")
This from the person who tried to imply that Obama and the libs would kill your granny or handicapped child by putting them in front of a death panel. Her cuntishness makes my skin crawl. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104.md?page=19)