# Sarah Palin takes no responsibility for the Tucson shootings? Really? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 10, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104 "2011-01-10T16:09:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/441 "2011-01-12T16:33:12Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Once I again I find myself asking: Did you read the title of the thread you’re posting in? :smack: Well, I should let him respond for himself, but my interpretation is that he believes that Sarah Palin should feel a sense of responsibility for her _part_ in creating an atmosphere of gun violence, not that she’s personally “responsible” for the gunman’s actions. I could be wrong, though. What? It’s happened. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/442 "2011-01-12T16:33:40Z")
> [@MoGlow](#): > > Her attacker has been diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. Really? I wasn’t aware he’d been diagnosed with anything as of yet. Got a cite? Is this yet another fact Dr. MoGlow is pulling out of his ass? ---
**Author:** ![heatmiserfl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df705f/32.png) [@heatmiserfl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heatmiserfl)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/443 "2011-01-12T16:34:49Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > from the very [first](http://www.ehow.com/how_4883855_use-transit-level.html) hit when Googling “Use of a transit” He asked for use of crosshairs in popular culture not to purposely google for something (“use of a transit”) that will give you surveyors instruments. Unless you think that most readers of Palin’s blog/facebook are surveyors or anyone else who have thought surveyors instruments over a gun (particularly in context, you know CONTEXT). This thread is so pathetic and yet so expected in many ways. Lame rationalizations and dissembling to outright lies (misrepresenting TV shows and cited websites). You’d think people would know not to try to sell such an obvious lemon but, hey, Dick Cheney was able to get the guy he shot to apologize to him. I guess nothing is too mendacious for the American right. Luckily, no one _really_ expects Sarah Palin to take responsibility for this shooting. That would be so out of character. I doubt she’d take responsibility if she personally put the gun in the guy’s hands. “I didn’t think he’d actually DO it!” She’s not lying though. She simply lacks the self-awareness and thoughtfulness required for this type of self analysis. Not to mention an absence of any kind of real moral compass. True for all of them. The response of outraged innocence smeared with the persecution complex and the weak and dishonest attempts at tu quoques is EXACTLY what you would expect from these people and their message board apologists. ---
**Author:** ![MoGlow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@MoGlow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoGlow)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/444 "2011-01-12T16:35:36Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I’m sure you’re pretty much a world class authority on ignorance, so keep going. :rolleyes: Well I see that you have added nothing of value to the thread. Why am I not surprised. Is it the libs that are calling for kinder discourse? Maybe if the self-professed libs actual practice what they preach, then people might actually follow their advice. The way they are going though, won’t help their cause. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/445 "2011-01-12T16:35:46Z")
> [@MoGlow](#): > > Her attacker has been diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. No, he has not. I’m sure he _is_ schizophrenic or something similar, but he has not been diagnosed with anything. It’s important to support your argument with facts. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/446 "2011-01-12T16:40:44Z")
> [@heatmiserfl](#): > > He asked for use of crosshairs in popular culture not to purposely google for something (“use of a transit”) that will give you surveyors instruments. Unless you think that most readers of Palin’s blog/facebook are surveyors or anyone else who have thought surveyors instruments over a gun (particularly in context, you know CONTEXT). Perhaps the shooter shouted “sic semper transit” as he pulled the trigger. ---
**Author:** ![MoGlow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@MoGlow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoGlow)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/447 "2011-01-12T16:40:58Z")
> [@](#): > > She simply lacks the self-awareness and thoughtfulness required for this type of self analysis. Not to mention an absence of any kind of real moral compass. True for all of them. The response of outraged innocence smeared with the persecution complex and the weak and dishonest attempts at tu quoques is EXACTLY what you would expect from these people and their message board apologists. As do you, apparently. That’s the point people are trying to make. Do you remember that the left burned and hanged President Bush in effigy. Do you remember the violent discourse from the left. Is your memory shot or are you simply in denial? I know ya’all are getting edgy 'cause you see your leftist agenda going up in smoke, daily. But seriously these types of posts, filled with hypocrisy and blame without any willingness to accept their own role in violent political discourse, will not help your case. Do you not realize that? Do you not see that even moderate Dems are starting to become angry at the leftist violent rhetoric and propensity for blaming. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/448 "2011-01-12T16:42:35Z")
> [@MoGlow](#): > > Her attacker has been diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. No, he hasn’t. (Although I’m sure he will be in time.) > [@](#): > > Anything can set one off. No, it can’t. > [@](#): > > The color purple. The fact that she has blond hair, unlikely > [@](#): > > or maybe he felt dismissed by her. Now, that’s possible. > [@](#): > > Do your homework about paranoid schizophrenics. I have. Recently and literally, in fact, for nursing class. And the vast majority of them are not violent, to themselves or to other people. > [@MoGlow](#): > > Is it the libs that are calling for kinder discourse? Maybe if the self-professed libs actual practice what they preach, then people might actually follow their advice. And yet, when someone does this as I did not half an hour ago, you completely ignore the post. That’s called confirmation bias. Since you’re such a fan of wikipedia, here’s a cite:[Confirmation bias - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias) ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/449 "2011-01-12T16:42:45Z")
> [@MoGlow](#): > > Personally since you live in Ireland, I don’t consider you anything but Irish. Your political beliefs will not effect me and are not a concern to me. Grand. Ignore away, I’m heartbroken :rolleyes: Your countrymen and women need no help from me to show you as the xenophobic partisan moron you are. You don’t have to be changed by their opinions just keep posting your idiocy to this thread that’s enough to get the job done. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/450 "2011-01-12T16:44:41Z")
[QUOTE=MoGlow] Do your homework about paranoid schizophrenics. Anything can set them off. The only people claiming it is political rhetoric that sets them off is leftists. [/QUOTE] You talk out of your ass so much that you’re going to need KY just to prevent chafing. Is it really your argument that anything could “set off” a person with schizophrenia, so therefore it couldn’t be political rhetoric? How does that work? ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/451 "2011-01-12T16:46:23Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > :smack: > > Well, I should let him respond for himself, but my interpretation is that he believes that Sarah Palin should feel a sense of responsibility for her _part_ in creating an atmosphere of gun violence, not that she’s personally “responsible” for the gunman’s actions. > > I could be wrong, though. > > What? > > It’s happened. 😉 Pretty accurate. However, hiding behind your Media Director or Webmaster or Freelance Graphic Artist ( as is the case here ) is beyond lame. She is the public face of The Sarah Palin Machine. She is responsible for the words she speaks and the ideas and agenda put forth and supported by written words and graphics. If she’s not, then she’d be nothing more than a mindless puppet being manipulated by others to further an agenda she does not support. That can’t be it. Can it? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/452 "2011-01-12T16:46:24Z")
**MoGlow** , are you yourself currently institutionalized? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/453 "2011-01-12T16:47:54Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > Grand. Ignore away, I’m heartbroken :rolleyes: > > Your countrymen and women need no help from me to show you as the xenophobic partisan moron you are. You don’t have to be changed by their opinions just keep posting your idiocy to this thread that’s enough to get the job done. That **xenophobic partisan moron** bit is pretty darn obvious! But it was useful to see that she’s as ignorant of Ireland as she is of her own country… ---
**Author:** ![MoGlow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@MoGlow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoGlow)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/454 "2011-01-12T16:48:07Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > No, he has not. I’m sure he _is_ schizophrenic or something similar, but he has not been diagnosed with anything. It’s important to support your argument with facts. Oh goody. Crikey. You guys are too easy. I was hoping you would challenge me. So, you think the leftist rag [Salon.com](http://Salon.com), engages in inaccurate reporting. In the article they are interviewing a leftist shrink. Here’s the link to a Salon article titled “Loughner a “textbook” case paranoid schizophrenic” [http://mobile.salon.com/mwt/feature/2011/01/11/jared\_loughner\_paranoid\_schizophrenia\_and\_why/index.html](http://mobile.salon.com/mwt/feature/2011/01/11/jared_loughner_paranoid_schizophrenia_and_why/index.html) > [@](#): > > Let’s talk about that mug shot, because it’s pretty striking. This guy is getting booked on six murders. Why is he smiling? > > That’s pretty bizarre, and that’s something a person with schizophrenia will do, because their emotions are disconnected from what’s going on. When you tell a schizophrenic your mother died, they might smile instead of cry. > > Early on, I wondered: Are we jumping to conclusions with this guy’s diagnosis? But you’re the expert, and you’re saying you feel pretty confident. > > If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I will call it a duck until somebody tells me it’s really a chicken in disguise. Is there any chance it’s not schizophrenia? Sure, but I’ll give you 100 to 1 odds. > > I was struck by his obsession with “lucid dreaming.” > > When someone comes in and talks about lucid dreaming, drugs are the first thing I wonder about. But with schizophrenia, you can get almost anything that’s weird like that. In itself, it didn’t stand out to me. > > And there was some evidence of drug use with Loughner. It sounds like he was smoking marijuana, and then got off of it. Did anything stand out to you about that part of the story? > > Certainly anyone in his age group using substances is not unusual. We do commonly find that when people have schizophrenia or bipolar they tend to increase substance abuse. I don’t know if he’s hearing voices, but what I see frequently is young kids hearing voices, and they start using acid or PCP because then they can explain why they’re hearing voices. It’s a way to avoid the reality that, hey, I’m getting sick. > > We have a strong correlation in our minds between schizophrenia and dangerous behavior. What is the real connection between this mental illness and violence? > > There is a very small number of people with schizophrenia who are, indeed, dangerous and do things like this. It’s very important to emphasize that the vast majority of people with this disease are not dangerous, and there are certain predictors in terms of who will be dangerous. Past history of violence, substance abuse, both of which are predictors for non-schizophrenics, too. But I’ve followed schizophrenia for 30 years, and I have never seen one of these high-profile homicides where the fellow hasn’t been off his medication when he did it. Being off medication is a clear risk factor for people who have a past history. > > Then there are certain kinds of symptoms as well. Thinking people are controlling your mind will increase the risk of violence, also having what we call command hallucinations, so that you’re hearing voices that tell you to do things. > > Whenever these horrible events occur, people often say: Oh, it was probably a paranoid schizophrenic. Why has this behavior become so strongly associated with tragedy? > > If you have grandiose delusions [caused by other forms of schizophrenia or mental illness] – if you think you’re the king of Washington, for instance – you’re not likely to kill anyone. If, on the other hand, you have paranoid delusions [consistent with paranoid schizophrenia] and you become convinced that the woman who lives across the street is sending signals into your brain, then you may try to hurt her first. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/455 "2011-01-12T16:49:00Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Is it really your argument that anything could “set off” a person with schizophrenia, so therefore it couldn’t be political rhetoric? How does that work? It’s a well known fact that anything can set off a paranoid schizophrenic _except_ political rhetoric. It repels them like garlic repels vampires. In fact, why is nobody investigating the link between the “occult” shooter and liberal pothead vampires? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/456 "2011-01-12T16:49:16Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > I admit I did not watch the video all the way through. I did watch far enough to see/hear her say the above quote. It is a frightening mindset to promulgate. What went through my Jewish-raised head was " --cough-- Nazi Germany --cough-- ". > > She wants to be POTUS? And she just threw out the entire idea of " conspiracy to commit XXX " ? Whoa. You go grrl. Criminal acts stand on their own. That’s the Palin Way™. > > So if I am driving the get-away car and did not in fact shoot anyone that day in Tucson, but was just the driver, according to the Palin Way™, I walk. No culpability, no responsibility. > > Indeed, why are we going after Bin Laden? Why, best as we know he was on the other side of the world on Sept. 11th. > > I would say " whatta moron " but she isn’t one. She’s terribly dangerous. That makes her more worrisome than someone who clearly is just a moron in their public statements or actions. > > Yep, after 10 pages I stick by my O.P. She and her machine are not solely responsible for the Tucson shootings. They sure as hell are a responsible party. But according to her own words, nobody is responsible for anything except the person holding the smoking gun. > > If you listen to that clip and watch and think about what she is doing she’s laying the groundwork for separating herself and her (tea)party from any/all future assassinations and attempts. The more she repeats this particular phrase and idea, the more she’s distanced herself and her machine from any responsibility. She encourages her supporters to “reload”, etc in one breath and in the next breath denies any responsibility for the actions resulting from her stated position. OK, then in the interest of fairness and free speech, and using her own terminology, she should be “targeted for removal”. Let’s watch the shit fly now 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/457 "2011-01-12T16:50:13Z")
> [@MoGlow](#): > > So, you think the leftist rag [Salon.com](http://Salon.com), engages in inaccurate reporting. In the article they are interviewing a leftist shrink. > > Here’s the link to a Salon article titled “Loughner a “textbook” case paranoid schizophrenic” So you don’t know what “diagnose” means either. The list of words you don’t understand or can’t spell is getting pretty long. Diagnose, hypocritical, ad hominem, too, cite… ---
**Author:** ![MoGlow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@MoGlow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoGlow)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/458 "2011-01-12T16:50:58Z")
> [@SeldomSeen](#): > > The late Molly Ivins said of the Canadians; "Sharing space with us [U.S.] on the continent must be like having the [Simpsons](http://simpsons.wikia.com/wiki/Simpsons_Wiki)for neighbors. > > I think Kumquat has every reason to be concerned. > SS I see that Molly Ivins does your thinking for you? ---
**Author:** ![MoGlow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@MoGlow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoGlow)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/459 "2011-01-12T16:52:22Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s a well known fact that anything can set off a paranoid schizophrenic _except_ political rhetoric. It repels them like garlic repels vampires. In fact, why is nobody investigating the link between the “occult” shooter and liberal pothead vampires? That’s a nice bit of word salad. I see that L:cool:oughner has brought out your dark side. ---
**Author:** ![MoGlow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@MoGlow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoGlow)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104/460 "2011-01-12T16:54:13Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > So you don’t know what “diagnose” means either. The list of words you don’t understand or can’t spell is getting pretty long. Oh your so intellectual, aren’t you? Another accusation unsupported by fact. So typically leftist hypocritical liberal Don’t feel inadequate. I like my mice. I really do. 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-takes-no-responsibility-for-the-tucson-shootings-really/567104.md?page=24)