# Sarah Palin vs. Vanity Fair editors (funny) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 21, 2009, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-vs-vanity-fair-editors-funny/503782 "2009-07-21T21:06:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-vs-vanity-fair-editors-funny/503782/41 "2009-07-22T14:02:10Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > Speaking as a poster – and as a professional editor – the “problem” with that text is that it was the transcription of remarks made without a script. If _any_ of us – including those of us who make our livings through our skills with the English language, like editors, writers, and teachers – spoke extemporaneously for five minutes and then read the transcript, we’d be appalled: there would be sentence fragments, incomplete thoughts, lack of agreement between subject and verb, redundancy out the wazoo, etc. That’s what oral speech is. You are absolutely right. Except for the part where you said it’s just a transcript. It’s not. That’s the speech she wrote and prepared prior to her press conference. [Here’s the link to her prepared notes (as posted earlier). There are some variations, but it’s basically the same thing.](http://www.gov.state.ak.us/exec-column.php) It’s basically what she read. Including gems like > [@](#): > > We were purchased as a territory because a member of President Abe Lincoln’s cabinet, William Seward, providentially saw in this great land, vast riches, beauty, strategic placement on the globe, and opportunity. He boldly looked “North to the Future”. But he endured such ridicule and mocking for his vision for Alaska, remember the adversaries scoffed, calling this “Seward’s Folly”. As an editor, would you be pleased with that passage? As a writing instructor, I can tell you I would not. And it’s basically world-for-word with the transcript VF used. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-vs-vanity-fair-editors-funny/503782/42 "2009-07-22T14:03:12Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > Shouldn’t she have a better grasp on grammar, considering she has a degree in communications with an emphasis on journalism? Nah, all they teach you in them journalism classes is how to be a member of the Liberal Media. So, really, all you can learn from that is attacking Jesus and raising taxes. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-vs-vanity-fair-editors-funny/503782/43 "2009-07-22T14:08:05Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I am reading it and comprehending it just fine. Oh, good, then you can tell us why she resigned. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-vs-vanity-fair-editors-funny/503782/44 "2009-07-22T14:11:06Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Wow Vanity Fair is such a petty fucking magazine. Most of those corrections are for style. Style matters. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-vs-vanity-fair-editors-funny/503782/45 "2009-07-22T15:00:29Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Was it the impulse to save the English language or the impulse to fuck with Sarah Palin that was the real impetus. Come on now, be honest. 😃 Oh, why can’t it be both? It seems like you can get both in in one fell swoop. > [@](#): > > You have already breathed your collective sigh of relief. This isn’t about relief, this is about hate. Please stop telling other people what they’re feeling. It’s presumptuous and annoying. I don’t hate Sarah Palin. I do find it amusing when she makes an ass out of herself. I also find it amusing when people who want to wield awesome power over others turn out to be bozos. This situation tickled my funny bone on both counts. Don’t make it into something more sinister than it is. > [@](#): > > Except that people talk about Sarah Palin day in and day out. There are thousands of other politicians in both parties being just as stupid. You’re not correcting their speeches now are you? They are collectively not nearly the celebrity that she is, and that’s just an undeniable fact. No one forced her to be this big of a celebrity and a media draw. I’m sure you don’t cry similar tears when a Clinton gets this much hate. If you don’t want to talk about Sarah Palin, then don’t. You don’t have the right to tell other people they can’t, or try to shame them with false accusations of HATE into doing what you want them to do. > [@Crotalus](#): > > Seward was Lincoln’s Secretary of State, and continued as Johnson’s after Lincoln was killed. The purchase of Alaska happened during Johnson’s term. So Palin appears, unlike you, to know in whose cabinet Seward served, but not when the purchase of her state happened. I know whose cabinet she was in when her state was purchased, which is what I meant. And if I made a statement that was as unclear as the one I made in the post you’re correting, and I was Governor of Alaska, you’d be right to point it out, wouldn’t you? Or do you only do “gotcha” on message boards but cut Republican governors slack? > [@](#): > > I think most people, even most English teachers, would acknowledge that there are many dialects in English. Standard Written English is important, but it is not the sole form of English. Correct English is what one would be 100% reasonable to expect in an important speech from the governor of a state, and it’s disingenuous to think otherwise, isn’t it? Most English teachers would agree. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-vs-vanity-fair-editors-funny/503782/46 "2009-07-22T15:05:53Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Correct English is what one would be 100% reasonable to expect in an important speech from the governor of a state, and it’s disingenuous to think otherwise, isn’t it? Most English teachers would agree. Boo’shit-- dat lady be some fly pussy. ---
**Author:** ![Dolukhanova](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c68b51/32.png) [@Dolukhanova](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dolukhanova)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-vs-vanity-fair-editors-funny/503782/47 "2009-07-22T15:09:12Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > You are absolutely right. Except for the part where you said it’s just a transcript. It’s not. That’s the speech she wrote and prepared prior to her press conference. [Here’s the link to her prepared notes (as posted earlier). There are some variations, but it’s basically the same thing.](http://www.gov.state.ak.us/exec-column.php) How do you know that what is at that link is not a transcript of her remarks, rather than a script from which she read? I’m seriously asking – I must be missing something. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-vs-vanity-fair-editors-funny/503782/48 "2009-07-22T15:11:24Z")
Even when corrected for grammar and style, the speech is still gobberish. It communicates nothing and explains nothing. It’s just a mixture of faith and country platitudes, self pity, constutuent pandering, _ad hominems_ to critics and total obfuscation as to the actual, ostensible purpose of the press conference. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-vs-vanity-fair-editors-funny/503782/49 "2009-07-22T15:27:37Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Even when corrected for grammar and style, the speech is still gobberish. It communicates nothing and explains nothing. It’s just a mixture of faith and country platitudes, self pity, constutuent pandering, _ad hominems_ to critics and total obfuscation as to the actual, ostensible purpose of the press conference. In other words, it’s a typical political speech, and certainly no more shallow and vacuous than any speech Obama has given. Come off it, you guys. You don’t seriously believe that the average wonk writes his own speeches, do you? So what if it ain’t the Gettysburg Address? The editors at VF were just being jerks, just like the time they tricked the star of “Hannah Montana” into posing for semi-pornographic photos. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-vs-vanity-fair-editors-funny/503782/50 "2009-07-22T15:27:48Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Even when corrected for grammar and style, the speech is still gobberish. It communicates nothing and explains nothing. It’s just a mixture of faith and country platitudes, self pity, constutuent pandering, _ad hominems_ to critics and total obfuscation as to the actual, ostensible purpose of the press conference. What does she think she is, anyway-- a politician? ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-vs-vanity-fair-editors-funny/503782/51 "2009-07-22T15:28:27Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > You are absolutely right. Except for the part where you said it’s just a transcript. It’s not. That’s the speech she wrote and prepared prior to her press conference. [Here’s the link to her prepared notes (as posted earlier). There are some variations, but it’s basically the same thing.](http://www.gov.state.ak.us/exec-column.php) My question is the same as **Dolukhanova** ’s: > [@Dolukhanova](#): > > How do you know that what is at that link is not a transcript of her remarks, rather than a script from which she read? I’m seriously asking – I must be missing something. I think at best she wrote out her talking points, in order – but neither transcript reads, to me, like something put together as an actual public address. > [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > As an editor, would you be pleased with that passage? As a writing instructor, I can tell you I would not. And it’s basically world-for-word with the transcript VF used. As an editor, I think it’s appalling – but, as I said, I’m taking it as a transcript, not a script. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-vs-vanity-fair-editors-funny/503782/52 "2009-07-22T15:33:14Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Boo’shit-- dat lady be some fly pussy. I am alienated by your Harvard English, Dr. Ruber. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-vs-vanity-fair-editors-funny/503782/53 "2009-07-22T16:46:20Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > I know whose cabinet she was in when her state was purchased, which is what I meant. And if I made a statement that was as unclear as the one I made in the post you’re correting, and I was Governor of Alaska, you’d be right to point it out, wouldn’t you? Or do you only do “gotcha” on message boards but cut Republican governors slack? > > Correct English is what one would be 100% reasonable to expect in an important speech from the governor of a state, and it’s disingenuous to think otherwise, isn’t it? Most English teachers would agree. I don’t much care about Republican governors, except to the extent that I’m glad the one my state suffered under for eight years is no longer in office. I just didn’t think referring to Seward as Lincoln’s Secretary of State was a sign of ignorance on Palin’s part. Aside from the Alaska deal, it’s what he is best known for: big Republican rival of Lincoln’s, lost in the primary, invited into the cabinet, survived an assassination attempt the same night Lincoln was shot. Maybe it’s because I’ve read a couple of books on Lincoln in the past few years, but I think of him as Lincoln’s SofS. Anyway, I did think that it was a reference that an editor should correct. I was also surprised to see you claiming that there is only one English. There ain’t, and you know it. I wasn’t trying to defend Palin’s ramblings. Political speeches are often delivered in other than Standard Written English, I don’t know if they are written in a dialect or not. I have heard good, sensible speeches that were quite colloquial and informal. I don’t have any beef with you and I thought that Palin’s speech was a pathetic mess. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-vs-vanity-fair-editors-funny/503782/54 "2009-07-22T17:10:30Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > I was also surprised to see you claiming that there is only one English. There ain’t, and you know it. I wasn’t trying to defend Palin’s ramblings. Political speeches are often delivered in other than Standard Written English, I don’t know if they are written in a dialect or not. I have heard good, sensible speeches that were quite colloquial and informal. There is only one English, I stand behind that, especially in the context of a governor’s resignation speech, or any formal speech, which this was. There certainly isn’t something called “Harvard English” that can be distinguished somehow from correct, fluent English. No one was asking her to use 50 cent SAT words or anything, so backlash of that sort against criticism of her is specious and disingenuos IMO. People defending her speech with the argument that it’s just a folksy and informal style would likely not make the same accommodations for a person they didn’t like whose style was similarly informal and folksy. It all depends on if their folks are your folks, if you know what I mean. There are many ways to use the language, but it’s all one language, and an educated person should be able to write and speak it. A deft user can modify stylistically, and even make deliberate “errors” like using “ain’t,” but one can usually tell when errors are made for the sake of style, and when they’re made out of ignorance. Some of Palin’s issues could be put down to style, and that’s OK. But some of it was just incorrect and awkward, and no amount of bullshitting about her critics speaking or requiring her to speak “Harvard English” can change that. It’s not elitist or petty to want someone to have a mastery of her mother tongue, esp. if she wants to be the leader of our country. I bet you are similarly tired of being led by someone whose use of the language was an embarrassment. I can’t believe people would sign up for more of the same, yet I see PALIN 2012 bumper stickers on people’s cars… and then folks have the nerve to wonder why poor Sarah is still under so much scrutiny. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-vs-vanity-fair-editors-funny/503782/55 "2009-07-22T17:38:08Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > There is only one English, I stand behind that, especially in the context of a governor’s resignation speech, or any formal speech, which this was. There certainly isn’t something called “Harvard English” that can be distinguished somehow from correct, fluent English. Not an Ebonics fan, then. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-vs-vanity-fair-editors-funny/503782/56 "2009-07-22T17:52:45Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > I think at best she wrote out her talking points, in order – but neither transcript reads, to me, like something put together as an actual public address. I’m not sure which is more disturbing: A politician (governor no less and former VP candidate) who writes as poorly as this. or… A politician (governor no less and former VP candidate) who thinks a political speech of this import is best delivered with, at most, note cards with talking points. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-vs-vanity-fair-editors-funny/503782/57 "2009-07-22T17:57:30Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Not an Ebonics fan, then. I’m not. Did it ever get much traction barring one minor flare up in Oakland? I am not sure there were even African American groups who pushed for it much less anyone else. About the only thing about Ebonics I could support was (maybe) the notion that English teachers understand the unique vernacular of the African American community as a means to more effectively teach standard English (assuming they had a many such students). Not sure how much merit even that had. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-vs-vanity-fair-editors-funny/503782/58 "2009-07-22T18:03:13Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Not an Ebonics fan, then. > > Regards, > Shodan Nope, not at all in formal settings, unless it’s used deliberately for a rhetorical purpose. If Obama delivered a speech in Ebonics, though, I’m sure all the Palin defenders would rush to his support, right? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-vs-vanity-fair-editors-funny/503782/59 "2009-07-22T18:16:36Z")
The whole “Ebonics” thing was an effort by one school board to categorize Afriican-American vernacular English as a “second language” as a strategy to use ESF funding to teach black kids standard English. It went nowhere, and it was never any kind of liberal cause. Even Jesse Jackson thought it was stupid, so it really has no relevance in this thread. Most liberals don’t think, and never did think, that Ebonics is a real language, so throwing it out as an attempt to _tu quoque_ criticism of Sarah Palin’s own struggles with basic literacy is just a strawman that would not offer any real defense of Palin anyway, unless **Shodan** is trying to suggest that Palin is speaking in her own dialect. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2009, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-vs-vanity-fair-editors-funny/503782/60 "2009-07-22T20:53:11Z")
OK, **mswas** , so if you claim that the content of her speech was perfectly clear, perhaps you could tell the rest of us why it was that she resigned? Because so far as I can tell, nobody in the country has been able to figure that one out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-vs-vanity-fair-editors-funny/503782.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarah-palin-vs-vanity-fair-editors-funny/503782.md?page=4)