# "Saratoga moments" in movies **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 15, 2006, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saratoga-moments-in-movies/384277 "2006-12-15T13:46:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saratoga-moments-in-movies/384277/21 "2006-12-15T19:04:16Z")
Lana Turner starred in **Peyton Place** as the mother of a troubled teen daughter and involved in a licentious affair with a man. At the time the film was released, Lana Turner’s real-life daughter shot & killed the man whom Turner was having a licentious affair with. (It sure helped the box office for the film.) Along these lines, there is a Doris Day / Rock Hudson film (don’t know the name) in which Day has snuck into a ‘men’s only’ hotel disguised with a fake beard. As she exits the hotel accompanied by Hudson, Day catches a glimpse of herself in the mirror and gasps. Hudson assures her she looks beautiful and kisses her on the lips - while aghast onlookers (who think it is a same-sex kiss) gape in shock. (This one might have been an intentional wink at the audience though.) ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saratoga-moments-in-movies/384277/22 "2006-12-15T20:00:39Z")
When Rock Hudson died, a local TV station ran the pilot episode of “McMillan & Wife” as a tribute. Its title was “Once Upon a Dead Man.” ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saratoga-moments-in-movies/384277/23 "2006-12-15T20:39:59Z")
[QUOTE=The New and Improved Superman] Lana Turner starred in **Peyton Place** as the mother of a troubled teen daughter and involved in a licentious affair with a man. At the time the film was released, Lana Turner’s real-life daughter shot & killed the man whom Turner was having a licentious affair with. (It sure helped the box office for the film.) [/QUOTE] Wasn’t Johnny Stompanato stabbed? (Quick visit to Wikipedia.) Yup–Cheryl stabbed him with a kitchen knife. The guy was an abuser. (But “licentious” sounds awfully good!) ---
**Author:** ![Southpaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@Southpaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southpaw)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saratoga-moments-in-movies/384277/24 "2006-12-15T20:47:07Z")
[QUOTE=The New and Improved Superman] Along these lines, there is a Doris Day / Rock Hudson film (don’t know the name) in which Day has snuck into a ‘men’s only’ hotel disguised with a fake beard. As she exits the hotel accompanied by Hudson, Day catches a glimpse of herself in the mirror and gasps. Hudson assures her she looks beautiful and kisses her on the lips - while aghast onlookers (who think it is a same-sex kiss) gape in shock. (This one might have been an intentional wink at the audience though.) [/QUOTE] Nitpick: It might have been either Doris _or_ Rock, but this scene doesn’t appear in any of the three movies they made together. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saratoga-moments-in-movies/384277/25 "2006-12-15T20:59:28Z")
Not from the movies, but here are lyrics by Tommy Thompson, a member of the Red Clay Ramblers: > [@](#): > > Past the coal-tipple towns in the cold December rain, > Into Charleston runs the New River train. > Where the hillsides are brown, and the broad valley’s stained > By a hundred thousand lives of work and pain. > In a tar-paper shack out of town across the track, > Stands an old used-up man trying to call something back, > But his old memories fade like the city in the haze > And his days have flowed together like the rain. Written back in 1975. In 1994, he was diagnosed with an “Alzheimer’s like dementia.” After a long decline, he died in 2003. I’ve seen many fine bands in my life, but never saw the Ramblers. Their recordings are pretty damned wonderful. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saratoga-moments-in-movies/384277/26 "2006-12-15T21:12:33Z")
[QUOTE=Southpaw] Nitpick: It might have been either Doris _or_ Rock, but this scene doesn’t appear in any of the three movies they made together. [/QUOTE] Well perhaps I assumed it was Doris Day (seeing as whoever it was had the beard on) but it was definitely Rock Hudson. I remember seeing it the same week (if not the exact night) that Hudson died. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saratoga-moments-in-movies/384277/27 "2006-12-15T21:20:42Z")
From the thread title, I thought “Saratoga moments” would be scenes in movies where they had to use a double because the star died. Saratoga and Plan 9 From Outer Space are the only ones that come to mind. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saratoga-moments-in-movies/384277/28 "2006-12-15T21:28:33Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] In **All That Jazz** , Bob Fosse was clearly envisioning his own death from a heart attack: the Roy Schieder character is based strongly on Fosse, and dies of a heart attack in the end. But that was deliberate on the part of Fosse, who suspected how he would die. [/QUOTE] I think “suspected” is just a slight understatement. In 1974 he did have a heart attack and open heart surgery. In fact, the ending scenes on that movie were at least inspired by his own hallucinations during his hospital stay. If a “Saratoga moment” is an **unintentional** prefiguring of a death, I don’t think _All That Jazz_ qualifies. But it’s still a bizarrely fascinating film. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saratoga-moments-in-movies/384277/29 "2006-12-15T21:29:47Z")
> [@](#): > > From the thread title, I thought “Saratoga moments” would be scenes in movies where they had to use a double because the star died. > > Saratoga and Plan 9 From Outer Space are the only ones that come to mind. **Gladiator** – they used someone else’s body for Oliver Reed’s final scene in the film, then CGI’s his face on it, I understand. ---
**Author:** ![cbawlmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cbawlmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cbawlmer)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saratoga-moments-in-movies/384277/30 "2006-12-15T21:38:59Z")
They also used a CGI double for a few shots of Brandon Lee in _The Crow_, which was mentioned earlier due to the weirdness in _Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story_. ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saratoga-moments-in-movies/384277/31 "2006-12-15T22:51:22Z")
On Passions a character named Timmy (played by Josh Evans) died while on the operating table. Coincidentally, Josh Evans had heart surgery on the same day the episode aired, and also died during the operation. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saratoga-moments-in-movies/384277/32 "2006-12-15T23:14:31Z")
Ah, Omega Glory reminded me about Charles Hallahan, character actor who suffers a “heart attack” in John Carpenter’s **The Thing** , only to have his chest burst open into a teethy maw that bites both hands off the doctor applying the shock paddles to his chest–easily one of the most memorable scenes from any 80s horror movies. In real life, Chares Hallahan died of a heart attack. I often wonder what it might’ve been like if a movie-savvy EMT broke out the crash cart only to see who it was he was going to have to revive… ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saratoga-moments-in-movies/384277/33 "2006-12-16T02:43:28Z")
Its not a movie, but it always creeps me out to hear Kurt Cobain sing: “Well I swear that I don’t have a gun” in **Come As You Are** , knowing how he ended his life. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saratoga-moments-in-movies/384277/34 "2006-12-16T02:49:27Z")
**John Spencer** died of a heart attack, a few years after his character on **The West Wing** , Leo McGarry, suffered a near-fatal heart attack On a related note, **Keisha Castle-Hughes** , currently starring in **The Nativity Story** as a pregnant teenager, is in fact a pregnant teenager. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saratoga-moments-in-movies/384277/35 "2006-12-16T04:16:25Z")
I’ve got one. It doesn’t necessarily fit the exact definition of a “Saratoga moment”, but it’s one of the most bizarre coincidences I’ve ever seen on TV. And it involved 9/11. In the summer of 2001, FOX ran a Tuesday-night replacement series called _Murder in Small Town X_. Essentially, this was a quasi-mystery, quasi-game show where you watched the contestants try to figure out a series of murders, one of the contestants getting “killed” at the end of each episode. It was a disaster, both programatically and commercially - possibly the lowest rated show of the summer. And it was dumb as all hell too (anybody remember the “sweepers”? WTF was that all about?) Anyway, my wife and I gamely stuck it out. The final episode was _scheduled_ to end on Tuesday, September 11th, but the ratings were so bad that FOX decided to air the final two episodes the week prior. The winner was one [Angel Juarbe](http://www.snopes.com/rumors/smaltown.htm). A NYC firefighter, he died when the first tower collapsed upon him, on the very day he was originally scheduled to receive his quarter-million in winnings. His body was eventually found, November 28th, 2001. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saratoga-moments-in-movies/384277/36 "2006-12-16T05:20:01Z")
This it’s really a Saratoga moment because it wasn’t a line in a film but rather about a film (_The Misfits_). According to IMDB, > [@](#): > > On the last day of filming, Clark Gable said, “Christ, I’m glad this picture’s finished. She [Monroe] damn near gave me a heart attack.” The next day, Gable suffered a massive heart attack; he died 11 days later. I’ve heard this story before but I’ve never been able to verify that the quotation is accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saratoga-moments-in-movies/384277/37 "2006-12-16T06:39:47Z")
Not a “Saratoga moment” precisely, but the original version of _The Manchurian Candidate_ (featuring a hit on the President orchestrated by foreign powers) was held back from release for years in the wake of the Kennedy assassination. ---
**Author:** ![11811](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/9d8465/32.png) [@11811](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/11811)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saratoga-moments-in-movies/384277/38 "2006-12-16T12:17:55Z")
In “The Outlaw Josie Wales,” a young man lies mortally wounded and tells Josie “I’m pert as a ruttin’ buck,” meaning “I’m fine, I’ll recover.” I use that phrase when people ask me how I’m doing. ---
**Author:** ![11811](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/9d8465/32.png) [@11811](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/11811)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saratoga-moments-in-movies/384277/39 "2006-12-16T12:19:27Z")
[QUOTE=11811] In “The Outlaw Josie Wales,” a young man lies mortally wounded and tells Josie “I’m pert as a ruttin’ buck,” meaning “I’m fine, I’ll recover.” I use that phrase when people ask me how I’m doing. [/QUOTE] Sorry, totally misunderstood the question ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saratoga-moments-in-movies/384277/40 "2006-12-16T16:01:02Z")
In John Wayne’s last movie, [The Shootist](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075213/), he is diagnosed with terminal cancer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saratoga-moments-in-movies/384277.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saratoga-moments-in-movies/384277.md?page=3)