# Sarbanes-Oxley can be used to charge a private citizen with a federal crime? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 8, 2015, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarbanes-oxley-can-be-used-to-charge-a-private-citizen-with-a-federal-crime/722001 "2015-06-08T20:53:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarbanes-oxley-can-be-used-to-charge-a-private-citizen-with-a-federal-crime/722001/41 "2015-06-09T16:00:37Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Well, yeah, no shit. That’s the point. Since even an innocent person would be crazy to reject a 2-year plea deal when facing 20 years, they are generally going to plead guilty. > Note: the offering of the 2-year deal should cast some doubt in your mind about whether the prosecutors really thought this guy deserved 20 years in prison. > > That’s definitely the right smiley for you. Hopefully **RNATB’s** post clarified. In short, why do you think it was material to their investigation whether he watched certain videos on his computer as opposed to merely downloaded them, for example? Who has said that Matanov was actually facing 20 years? The dailykos? The NYP? The plea deal was for 30 months. I haven’t found any credible information that the judge actually had the conversation with Matanov that was reported in the linked thread in the OP. That’s two strikes against the alleged reporting of the dailykos. It’s not publically known what information Matanov erased from his PC, or what Matanov discussed/planned with the Boston Bombers. Matanov would best know what he had, and hadn’t, done, but should the public believe Matanov’s version of what happened? Or should the public believe that the Feds are trying to ruin poor Matanov’s life? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarbanes-oxley-can-be-used-to-charge-a-private-citizen-with-a-federal-crime/722001/42 "2015-06-09T16:03:39Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > It’s interesting that you are happy to make convenient assumptions about what law enforcement would find when it suits your argument, but then fall back on claims of insufficient evidence when someone else demonstrates that you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. Hahahaha. Why would anyone assume that this was an all-out effort by the FBI, BATFE, and NSA to follow up on every lead related to the assholes who bombed the Boston Marathon? Seriously? The other information hasn’t been made public. Because there was no trial. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarbanes-oxley-can-be-used-to-charge-a-private-citizen-with-a-federal-crime/722001/43 "2015-06-09T16:06:02Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Who has said that Matanov was actually facing 20 years? The dailykos? The NYP? The plea deal was for 30 months. I haven’t found any credible information that the judge actually had the conversation with Matanov that was reported in the linked thread in the OP. That’s two strikes against the alleged reporting of the dailykos. Do you have any reason to believe the New York Post is reporting the story inaccurately? Have you bothered to _look_ for confirmation? I’m guessing not, because it’s [not very difficult](http://www.wsj.com/articles/cabdriver-pleads-guilty-in-boston-bombing-case-1427231508) to find. I even linked the statutory provision he was charged under earlier in the thread, which includes the maximum sentence. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarbanes-oxley-can-be-used-to-charge-a-private-citizen-with-a-federal-crime/722001/44 "2015-06-09T16:07:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Say that again when you’re facing a 20 year sentence and in the court of public opinion you’re tied to the most notorious criminals of the past decade. Hmmmm, tough choice. Matanov will always be associated with the Boston Bombers because he plead guilty. I’d find a better lawyer, and fight to clear my, and my families, name. Assuming I was innocent, of course. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarbanes-oxley-can-be-used-to-charge-a-private-citizen-with-a-federal-crime/722001/45 "2015-06-09T16:16:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Do you have any reason to believe the New York Post is reporting the story inaccurately? Have you bothered to _look_ for confirmation? I’m guessing not, because it’s [not very difficult](http://www.wsj.com/articles/cabdriver-pleads-guilty-in-boston-bombing-case-1427231508) to find. I even linked the statutory provision he was charged under earlier in the thread, which includes the maximum sentence. Are you saying that everyone found guilty of violating Sarbanes-Oxley is automatically given a 20 year sentence? The maximum sentence is the maximum sentence, that doesn’t mean Matanov was actually facing a maximum sentence. Or does it? Somehow, as if by magic, the plead deal was only for 30 months. That’s 210 months short of the maximum. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarbanes-oxley-can-be-used-to-charge-a-private-citizen-with-a-federal-crime/722001/46 "2015-06-09T16:23:20Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The maximum sentence is the maximum sentence, that doesn’t mean Matanov was actually facing a maximum sentence. Or does it? Yes, it does. The prosecutors have discretion to ask for less than the maximum sentence, but there is no indication here that they were seeking a lesser sentence. > [@](#): > > Somehow, as if by magic, the plead deal was only for 30 months. That’s 210 months short of the maximum. That’s not magic. That’s how plea deals work. At this point, I can only include you don’t understand enough about the criminal justice system to participate in this discussion, or you are feigning ignorance to prove a point. Do you know what a plea agreement is? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarbanes-oxley-can-be-used-to-charge-a-private-citizen-with-a-federal-crime/722001/47 "2015-06-09T16:41:08Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Yes, it does. The prosecutors have discretion to ask for less than the maximum sentence, but there is no indication here that they were seeking a lesser sentence. > > That’s not magic. That’s how plea deals work. At this point, I can only include you don’t understand enough about the criminal justice system to participate in this discussion, or you are feigning ignorance to prove a point. Do you know what a plea agreement is? Perhaps he is asking what the sentence would be if he were convicted at trial rather than a plea agreement. 20 years being the maximum, is that likely what the Judge would sentence him to? What leeway would there be in sentencing? ETA, is it possible for the judge to ignore the deal and sentence him to something else? Or would he have to reject the deal and not accept the plea, forcing the parties to renegotiate? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarbanes-oxley-can-be-used-to-charge-a-private-citizen-with-a-federal-crime/722001/48 "2015-06-09T16:45:03Z")
Impossible to say at this point what the _specific_ sentence would be. The federal sentencing guidelines require the use of a scoresheet that tots up various mitigating and enhancing factors. However, the judge can depart from the scoresheet sentence if he makes specific findings supporting his decision to do so (for example, baby eating is probably not an enumerated enhancing factor.) ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarbanes-oxley-can-be-used-to-charge-a-private-citizen-with-a-federal-crime/722001/49 "2015-06-09T17:34:26Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Yes, it does. The prosecutors have discretion to ask for less than the maximum sentence, but there is no indication here that they were seeking a lesser sentence. > > That’s not magic. That’s how plea deals work. At this point, I can only include you don’t understand enough about the criminal justice system to participate in this discussion, or you are feigning ignorance to prove a point. Do you know what a plea agreement is? There’s no indication that the prosecutor was asking for the maximum sentence, either. After a negotiation, the defendant agrees to plead guilty, and assumes the judge will abide by the negotiated agreement. The judge is not bound by that agreement, but usually does. Sometime in June, Matanov will find out what his actual sentence will be. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarbanes-oxley-can-be-used-to-charge-a-private-citizen-with-a-federal-crime/722001/50 "2015-06-09T17:44:49Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Do you have any reason to believe the New York Post is reporting the story inaccurately? Have you bothered to _look_ for confirmation? I’m guessing not, because it’s [not very difficult](http://www.wsj.com/articles/cabdriver-pleads-guilty-in-boston-bombing-case-1427231508) to find. (post shortened and I won’t subscribe to the WSJ, or any other media outlet.) I questioned the version of the conversation between the judge and Matanov, as “reported” by the dailykos, and the NYP. Where does the reported Q&A between the judge and Matanov originate from? A trial transcript? A conversation in the judges chambers? Maybe from a reporter’s imagination? Is it just another example of cut-and-paste journalism that was never actually vetted? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarbanes-oxley-can-be-used-to-charge-a-private-citizen-with-a-federal-crime/722001/51 "2015-06-09T17:49:41Z")
Pleas are entered on the record in open court. If you have even the slightest shred of evidence that the reporting is inaccurate, you can share it. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarbanes-oxley-can-be-used-to-charge-a-private-citizen-with-a-federal-crime/722001/52 "2015-06-09T18:20:31Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Where does the reported Q&A between the judge and Matanov originate from? A trial transcript? A conversation in the judges chambers? Maybe from a reporter’s imagination? Is it just another example of cut-and-paste journalism that was never actually vetted? Jesus, you’re getting desperate aren’t you? These are not secret proceedings, much as folks like you might prefer such a thing. They’re court cases, and while this might shock someone who “won’t subscribe to any…media outlet,” even in this day and age of media cutbacks, some newspapers actually send reporters to the courtroom. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarbanes-oxley-can-be-used-to-charge-a-private-citizen-with-a-federal-crime/722001/53 "2015-06-09T18:24:24Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Pleas are entered on the record in open court. > > If you have even the slightest shred of evidence that the reporting is inaccurate, you can share it. I questioned WHERE the dailykos, and NYP, Q&A quote came from. Given the dailykos’s record of publishing horseshit, innuendo, and political screed, I’m unlikely to take their word for anything. However, I will gladly accept your word that the dailykos accurately reported the judges conversation with Matanov. Is that what you’re doing? Verifying the dailykos’s reporting? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarbanes-oxley-can-be-used-to-charge-a-private-citizen-with-a-federal-crime/722001/54 "2015-06-09T18:30:29Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Jesus, you’re getting desperate aren’t you? > > These are not secret proceedings, much as folks like you might prefer such a thing. They’re court cases, and while this might shock someone who “won’t subscribe to any…media outlet,” even in this day and age of media cutbacks, some newspapers actually send reporters to the courtroom. Hahahaha. Apparently they are secret proceedings. :eek: I would like to know WHERE the dailykos’s Q&A between the judge and Matanov came from. This isn’t rocket surgery. If some newspaper sent a reporter to the courtroom, which one was it? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarbanes-oxley-can-be-used-to-charge-a-private-citizen-with-a-federal-crime/722001/55 "2015-06-09T18:36:54Z")
Why don’t you fucking ask them? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarbanes-oxley-can-be-used-to-charge-a-private-citizen-with-a-federal-crime/722001/56 "2015-06-09T19:46:50Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Why don’t you fucking ask them? Because I don’t consider the dailykos and NYP to be trustworthy. EVERYONE (and you know who they are) seems to be satisfied with the dailykos article linked in the OP. I’d like to know what those people know that doesn’t seem to be available to the general public. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarbanes-oxley-can-be-used-to-charge-a-private-citizen-with-a-federal-crime/722001/57 "2015-06-09T20:31:10Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Because I don’t consider the dailykos and NYP to be trustworthy. > > EVERYONE (and you know who they are) seems to be satisfied with the dailykos article linked in the OP. I’d like to know what those people know that doesn’t seem to be available to the general public. Hey, asshole, **RNATB** gave you a WSL link. The fact that you’re too lazy or pigheaded to register to look at it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. Here’s a quote from that same article: > [@](#): > > At one point, Judge Young asked Mr. Matanov whether he believed he was still innocent but taking a deal for reduced prison time. “Is that what’s going on here?” the judge asked. > > “Yes sir,” Mr. Matanov said. He appeared in beige prison garb, and was led in and out with his legs and wrists shackled. > > The judge must still decide whether to accept the plea agreement. He scheduled sentencing for June 18. > > Authorities didn’t accuse Mr. Matanov, a legal U.S. resident who is from Kyrgyzstan, with participating in the bombing or knowing about it ahead of time. If you want to check whether the WSJ author, Jon Kamp, was in the courtroom, you can email him. The address is provided at the end of his articles: jon.kamp[at][wsj.com](http://wsj.com). I recommend that, for every single newspaper article you ever read in the future, you investigate the background and check who was actually in the room to gather the information. It’s the only logical thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarbanes-oxley-can-be-used-to-charge-a-private-citizen-with-a-federal-crime/722001/58 "2015-06-09T20:36:02Z")
What’s with the registration excuse? I clicked the link, it shows the article. No signup required. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarbanes-oxley-can-be-used-to-charge-a-private-citizen-with-a-federal-crime/722001/59 "2015-06-09T20:38:11Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > What’s with the registration excuse? I clicked the link, it shows the article. No signup required. When i clicked, it required registration. Maybe you’ve registered for the WSJ in the past? I actually got the quote i used through my university’s ProQuest subscription. It was quicker than signing up myself. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarbanes-oxley-can-be-used-to-charge-a-private-citizen-with-a-federal-crime/722001/60 "2015-06-09T22:36:24Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Here’s a quote from that same article:If you want to check whether the WSJ author, Jon Kamp, was in the courtroom, you can email him. The address is provided at the end of his articles: jon.kamp[at][wsj.com](http://wsj.com). > > I recommend that, for every single newspaper article you ever read in the future, you investigate the background and check who was actually in the room to gather the information. It’s the only logical thing to do. Or I could muddle thru life pretending to be as resolutely ignorant as someone like yourself. I’m very particular about which sites I sign up, or register, for. Cuts down on the amount of spam I receive at my emails. Newspaper? Really? Who still gets a newspaper? Do you keep birds? I could flip you another bird, as if someone like yourself doesn’t receive a daily supply. 😃 Bwahahaha. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarbanes-oxley-can-be-used-to-charge-a-private-citizen-with-a-federal-crime/722001.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarbanes-oxley-can-be-used-to-charge-a-private-citizen-with-a-federal-crime/722001.md?page=4)