# Sarin Nerve Agent Bomb Explodes in Iraq **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 17, 2004, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarin-nerve-agent-bomb-explodes-in-iraq/245634 "2004-05-17T17:17:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarin-nerve-agent-bomb-explodes-in-iraq/245634/61 "2004-05-18T06:43:49Z")
> [@Age Quod Agis](#): > > As far as I’ve seen, there’s no indication that this didn’t come from Saddam’s warehouses. So perhaps those “morons” will be correct about us finding WMD. And maybe they’ll just be responding to those geniuses that have been repeating the mantra that “Bush lied” about WMD. Part of the problem is that Saddam had stocks of Mustard gas left over from the first persian gulf war (Iran v Iraq) but no sarin which is a nerve gas , rather than a blistering agent. > [@](#): > > I understand that it can be more deadly (effective?) if it’s used in a different method, but that doesn’t mean that it’s not a WMD just because it wasn’t used in the most effective manner. Its not really a weapon of mass **destruction** , its a weapon of mass **casualty** , but for the purposes of propaganda , it was labeled as such. It was originally meant to procede via artillery bombardment , offensives in WW1 and had to be delivered via Tons of gas , just to get the casualties that it did achieve. Before WW2, it was used in Ethiopia by Italian forces and was requested by the British forces in Iraq , during that uprising . Because of his experience in WW1 , and the fact that air power could deliver vast quantitys to the German hinterlands , Hitler refrained from using any sort of Gas or nerve agent , on Allied formations , largely keeping the program going via zyclon b , on the Jewish and undesirables. Its last real appeal , was for the eventual soviet invasion of western europe , which never came off , the N **BC** agents were to be used in bombardments via IRBMS and bombers , for paralysing all major capitals ,and staging areas for follow on troops that would be deploying from Canada and the States. > [@](#): > > By the way, where are people getting the idea that the shell was 10 years old? Is that somewhere in an article that I missed? All artillery and especially special munitions will have batch lots stenciled onto the shell, so as to determine the shelf life of a particular shell. My own guess is that the particular shell , was as mentioned binary ,which would have a different design , than say a 155 HE or Ap or AT round. The diameter would allow the shell to fit into the breech of a howitzer , but may be lighter or heavier depending on the munition involved. The Binary method , was to have two separate chambers that would rupture and mix , allowing the cocktail to brew. Declan ---
**Author:** ![iamme99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/57b2e6/32.png) [@iamme99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamme99)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarin-nerve-agent-bomb-explodes-in-iraq/245634/62 "2004-05-18T07:16:29Z")
Again from Information Clearing HOuse daily newsletter: > [@](#): > > Powell Admits False WMD Claim: > > Appearing on Meet the Press, Powell acknowledged–finally!–that he and the Bush administration misled the nation about the WMD threat posed by Iraq before the war. > > [Link](http://www.thenation.com/capitalgames/index.mhtml?bid=3&pid=1442) ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarin-nerve-agent-bomb-explodes-in-iraq/245634/63 "2004-05-18T15:04:05Z")
Notice that the info in question comes through Chalabi’s INC’s [Information Collection Program](http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/8010341.htm) (which the Pentagon’s _still_ funding. The CIA and State cut off funds long ago due to severe mistrust of Chalabi et al. Pentagon civilians decided that they knew better.) [Meet the Press Transcript for May 16 2004](http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4992558/) _Updated: 1:08 p.m. ET May 16, 2004Copyright© 2004, National Broadcasting Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved._ **Russert** : Thank you very much, sir. In February of 2003, you put your enormous personal reputation on the line before the United Nations and said that you had solid sources for the case against Saddam Hussein. It now appears that an agent called Curveball had misled the CIA by suggesting that Saddam had trucks and trains that were delivering biological and chemical weapons. How concerned are you that some of the information you shared with the world is now inaccurate and discredited? **Powell** : I’m very concerned. When I made that presentation in February 2003, it was based on the best information that the Central Intelligence Agency made available to me. We studied it carefully; we looked at the sourcing in the case of the mobile trucks and trains. There was multiple sourcing for that. Unfortunately, that multiple sourcing over time has turned out to be not accurate. And so I’m deeply disappointed. But I’m also comfortable that at the time that I made the presentation, it reflected the collective judgment, the sound judgment of the intelligence community. But it turned out that the sourcing was inaccurate and wrong and in some cases, _deliberately misleading_. And for that, I am disappointed and I regret it. Then An administration official said the media and the intelligence committee’s emphasis on the information provided by the Chalabi-led INC distorts the scope of what went wrong with U.S. intelligence leading up to the war. The intelligence agencies have combined annual budgets of nearly $40 billion, compared with the $4 million annual budget of the ICP. The ICP used that money only to produce potential intelligence sources, [not to guarantee their accuracy and reliability](http://www.insightmag.com/news/2004/03/16/National/Dod-Weighs.Future.Of.IraqiFed.Intelligence.Unit-626413.shtml). That was up to their DIA handlers. VS Now INC spokesman Entifadh Qanbar and other INC officials denied that the group knowingly provided defectors of dubious credibility. They insisted that the [INC did its utmost to check their identities and reliability](http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/8690091.htm) before turning them over to U.S. officials. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarin-nerve-agent-bomb-explodes-in-iraq/245634/64 "2004-05-19T06:33:02Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > Notice that the info in question comes through Chalabi’s INC’s [Information Collection Program](http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/8010341.htm) (which the Pentagon’s _still_ funding. The CIA and State cut off funds long ago due to severe mistrust of Chalabi et al. Pentagon civilians decided that they knew better.) [U.S. to Halt Payments to Iraqi Group Headed by a Onetime Pentagon Favorite](http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/18/politics/18CHAL.html) > [@](#): > > The United States government has decided to halt monthly $335,000 payments to the Iraqi National Congress, the group headed by Ahmad Chalabi, an official with the group said on Monday. > … > Mr. Chalabi’s group has received at least $27 million in United States financing in the past four years, the Iraqi National Congress official said. This includes $335,000 a month as part of a classified program through the Defense Intelligence Agency, since the summer of 2002, to help gather intelligence in Iraq. > … > Internal reviews by the United States government have found that much of the information provided as part of the classified program before American forces invaded Iraq last year was useless, misleading or even fabricated. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarin-nerve-agent-bomb-explodes-in-iraq/245634/65 "2004-05-19T17:20:39Z")
Finally. The [fucker](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=3326581post3326581)’s been a fucker since the beiginning. Fucking “hero in error” my ass. I’m realizing that the rest of post to be’s really not GD material. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarin-nerve-agent-bomb-explodes-in-iraq/245634.md?page=3)