# Sarin-tipped missiles found in Iraq **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 7, 2003, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarin-tipped-missiles-found-in-iraq/167072 "2003-04-07T14:57:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarin-tipped-missiles-found-in-iraq/167072/1 "2003-04-07T14:57:02Z")
[What it says.](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=578&e=1&cid=578&u=/nm/20030407/ts_nm/iraq_usa_cache_dc) Just thought people would like to know. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarin-tipped-missiles-found-in-iraq/167072/2 "2003-04-07T15:03:17Z")
I heard that this morning on NPR, and am waiting for confirmation. I was thinking this link would provide confirmation – but it’s only reporting that NPR reported it. As of yet, this isn’t confirmed – although NY Times now has a news alert (no article) that “U.S. Soldiers in Karbala Area Find Several Large Oil Drums That May Contain Biological Weapons, Officers Said.” Wait and see. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarin-tipped-missiles-found-in-iraq/167072/3 "2003-04-07T15:05:32Z")
Precisely. It would be no great surprise to find out that Saddam lied, but let’s not jump to conclusions until it’s confirmed. ---
**Author:** ![Fin\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@Fin\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fin_man)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarin-tipped-missiles-found-in-iraq/167072/4 "2003-04-07T15:30:05Z")
It’s on MSNBC as well. [U.S. investigates chemical find](http://www.msnbc.com/news/895392_asp.htm) Some of the text: Initial tests indicate presence of blister, nerve agents U.S. Army commanders say they have discovered more than a dozen barrels of chemicals in an agricultural facility 30 miles northeast of here that have tested positive as blister and nerve agents. If that initial analysis is backed up by further testing, it would be the first confirmed seizure by U.S. forces of Iraqi chemical weapons. No confirmation, just elaboration ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarin-tipped-missiles-found-in-iraq/167072/5 "2003-04-07T15:39:24Z")
This quote is from today’s [NY Times online](http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/07/international/worldspecial/07CND-CHEM.html). > [@](#): > > …several soldiers became ill, and the company quickly put on their chemical protection gear. Last night, the chemical company identified the problem as CN, a riot control gas that causes vomiting and blisters. Colonel Madere said he did not believe that soldiers were seriously ill. > The colonel said that the chemical team stayed overnight to check several other large oil drums. This morning, the team tested a 20-gallon drum, and came to the conclusion that it tested positive for sarin, a nerve gas and tabun, another nerve gas. > A 55-gallon oil drum came up positive for mustard gas. I read in one of the other articles that sarin, in small quantities, has legitimate uses, but I have never heard that mustard gas does. The presence of all this stuff is pretty damning for SH’s claim that he had no WMD. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarin-tipped-missiles-found-in-iraq/167072/6 "2003-04-07T16:35:42Z")
It could well be damning. But the same article mentions that it’s in an abandoned Palestinian training camp; what does that mean? Is this something that Palestinian fighters have brought in? Is the supposed WMD in barrels, or is it in missiles? In barrels is much less damning: Hussein, IIRC, admitted that Iraq may have stores of chemical weapons left over from the Iran-Iraq war, but has denied that they were readily useable. This may well be the smoking gun, but I think we need to wait and see. For it to be smoking gun, I think, the following conditions need to be met: 1. The weapons need to be in a reasonably useable form – if they’re leftovers from previous wars that haven’t yet been destroyed, that’s not a smoking gun. 2. The weapons need to be Iraq’s – if they’ve been brought in by Iraq’s allies, that’s not a smoking gun. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Fin\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@Fin\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fin_man)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarin-tipped-missiles-found-in-iraq/167072/7 "2003-04-07T18:02:02Z")
According to UN Security Council Resolution [687 (1991)](http://www.un.org/Docs/scres/1991/scres91.htm) paragraph 8, Iraq "shall unconditionally accept the destruction, removal, or rendering harmless, under international supervision, of: (a) All chemical and biological weapons and all stocks of agents and all related subsystems and components and all research, development, support and manufacturing facilities related thereto; (b) All ballisitic missiles with a range greater than one hundred and fifty kilometres, and related major parts and repair and production facilities;"1 So, IMHO, if these are chemical agents which have been found, this is the smoking gun. The UN resolution does not require them to be in usable form, only that Iraq cannot have them in a harmful form. And as for Iraq using the defense of “they’re not my weapons”, I think it will hold about as much water as one of us saying “But officer, those aren’t my drugs even though you found them in my house. I’m just holding them for a friend.” Of course, there could be UN resolutions after 687 which supersede this resolution and makes the possession ok but I haven’t found one. 1 The section about ballistic missiles was included as to complete paragraph 8. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarin-tipped-missiles-found-in-iraq/167072/8 "2003-04-07T18:58:24Z")
This reminds me very little of when Hulk Hogan admitted to using steroids. These new developments have likewise utterly ruined the image I had built up of Saddam Hussein. Totally destroyed it, I say… ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2003, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarin-tipped-missiles-found-in-iraq/167072/9 "2003-04-07T22:21:42Z")
A Dutch news source here says that after inspection, the weapons experts of the 101st have determined the alleged sarin to be… an agricultural detergent. A quick scan of the BBC website didn’t reveal an English source, so I’ll scan again later. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarin-tipped-missiles-found-in-iraq/167072/10 "2003-04-08T02:34:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\*A Dutch news source here says that after inspection, the weapons experts of the 101st have determined the alleged sarin to be… an agricultural detergent. \*\* Ah, yes, the fabled “clean bomb,” opposite of the much-feared “dirty bomb.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarin-tipped-missiles-found-in-iraq/167072/11 "2003-04-08T02:45:19Z")
Hey, they promised “unconventional.” ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarin-tipped-missiles-found-in-iraq/167072/12 "2003-04-08T02:51:50Z")
From the Information Minister (aka Baghdad Bob): "We will wash out the mouths of the infidels with industrial-grade soap!! They will foam at the mouth, and collapse before our mighty forces!!! ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarin-tipped-missiles-found-in-iraq/167072/13 "2003-04-08T03:31:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\*A Dutch news source here says that after inspection, the weapons experts of the 101st have determined the alleged sarin to be… an agricultural detergent. > > A quick scan of the BBC website didn’t reveal an English source, so I’ll scan again later. \*\* I think that there were 2 separate “finds” here. The one from a few days back that they thought was Chem. weapons that caused some soldiers to get sick – that turned out to be a pesticide. But I believe there was a separate find recently outside of Karbala. Coldie, is that report you were talking about in reference to the earleir find, or the more recent one? ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarin-tipped-missiles-found-in-iraq/167072/14 "2003-04-08T03:43:48Z")
Yes, it appears, at this time, to be two separate incident reports. The first was of drums of what appears now to be pesticide, while the second specifically mentioned BM-21 missiles. BM-21s appear to be old Soviet short-range tactical weaponry (they look like “Stalin’s organs”), but if they’re packing nerve gas, they’re WMD. ---
**Author:** ![Gundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Gundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gundy)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarin-tipped-missiles-found-in-iraq/167072/15 "2003-04-08T03:47:32Z")
Completely off topic, but I keep reading the thread title as “Satin-tipped missiles”. Satin-tipped missiles! The luxury enchancement for smooth, friction-free missile entry! ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarin-tipped-missiles-found-in-iraq/167072/16 "2003-04-08T04:24:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gundy \* > \*\*Completely off topic, but I keep reading the thread title as “Satin-tipped missiles”. > > Satin-tipped missiles! The luxury enchancement for smooth, friction-free missile entry! \*\* More importantly: Are they ribbed for _her_ pleasure? ---
**Author:** ![av8rmike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/edb3f5/32.png) [@av8rmike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/av8rmike)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarin-tipped-missiles-found-in-iraq/167072/17 "2003-04-08T04:30:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gundy \* > \*\*Completely off topic, but I keep reading the thread title as “Satin-tipped missiles”. > > Satin-tipped missiles! The luxury enchancement for smooth, friction-free missile entry! \*\* Interesting, I kept seeing it as “Satan-tipped missiles”. Is that the opposite of satin-tipped? ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarin-tipped-missiles-found-in-iraq/167072/18 "2003-04-08T04:36:06Z")
I don’t know - he’s supposed to be a smooth devil. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarin-tipped-missiles-found-in-iraq/167072/19 "2003-04-08T07:35:50Z")
Ack. The news report I found was from a fast, but notoriously undetailed Dutch internet news site, www.nu.nl - kind of like the Dutch version of Ananova. It headlined last night’s news, and made no mention of the initial date of the find, leading me to believe it was related to the missile find. Sorry for the confusion, guys. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2003, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sarin-tipped-missiles-found-in-iraq/167072/20 "2003-04-08T07:39:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Early Out \* > \*\*From the Information Minister (aka Baghdad Bob): "We will wash out the mouths of the infidels with industrial-grade soap!! They will foam at the mouth, and collapse before our mighty forces!!! \*\* “The streets will flow with the blood of those who haven’t showered!”