SARS - Blown out of fucking proportion

[Crowbar_of_Irony_3]

CRorex wrote:

Take Canada’s protocol. Anyone with a fever, cough and fluid in their lungs is automatically called a SARS patient and quarintined. This is a GOOD thing, agressive containment = less spread. Without a reliable detection kit or assay protocol probably a lot of people with pneumonia not caused by SARS are being catagorized as SARS patients.

CRorex, what would you do instead, then, without knowing if the person in question really has SARS or not? I do find Canada’s policy on this a bit extreme (here, anyone exhibiting such symptoms are sent to the doctor and told them to stay at home and rest. Only people who have been in close contact with SARS patient, and hence with higher chances of infection, are ordered by law to stay at home).

No offense to your mother, but this is eerily similar-sounding to Middle Agers carrying around sachets and pomander to ward off Plague. Things have not changed too much in 700 years.

No worry,masonite, she has been getting on my nerve about not going out (Well, I need to earn a living) and keep reminding me to eat those “supplemental pills” and so on. She took the suggestions off the local paper, and the paper was merely reporting what people were doing, and not advocating that others to follow like-wise.

If it is matters, my mother wasn’t very well-educated, so I don’t really blame her…

[Gatopescado]

another “Classic Gatopescado post” from the past
Anthrax.

Anthrax anthrax anthrax. Anthrax anthrax anthrax, anthrax anthrax anthrax? Anthrax, anthrax anthrax anthrax anthrax anthrax anthrax anthrax anthrax. Anthrax anthrax anthrax anthrax.

Anthrax anthrax anthrax! Anthrax anthrax anthrax anthrax anthrax anthrax anthrax!

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Fagjunk Theology: Not just for sodomite propagandists anymore.

[CRorex]

*Originally posted by LostCause *
**CRorex wrote:
CRorex, what would you do instead, then, without knowing if the person in question really has SARS or not? I do find Canada’s policy on this a bit extreme (here, anyone exhibiting such symptoms are sent to the doctor and told them to stay at home and rest. Only people who have been in close contact with SARS patient, and hence with higher chances of infection, are ordered by law to stay at home).

Canada is doing the right thing, however they need to spend a little more time on PR and explaining their practices. The way the reporting from Canada is making it sound it seems as if people are dying in the streets – I exaggerate but ya know the rate of new cases is incredably high compared to the rest of the world.

Containment is a good thing, can’t have too much of it when there is a disease outbreak that doesn’t have a solid treatment protocol nor rapid assays.

It’s just the way that this is handled is probably making matters worse.

[Catamount]

*Originally posted by LostCause *
**My mother has been over-reacting, telling me not to go out, forcing me to drink coke with onion <snip> **

Coke…with…ONION?!? :eek: What vile order of snake oil is this? What the hell good will that do? Coke Inna Bottle, yes, that’s a valid treatment for the flu in my household. But we would never put an onion in it! Onions are for cookin’ not drinkin’!

and filling my room with the aroma of garlic mixed with hot vingear.

So SARS is caused by vampires?

Color me

[World_Eater]

*Originally posted by NurseCarmen *
**I love it that we have people like CRorex on these boards, how cool is that. Need an expert WAG? It seems we have an expert for every field represented. Thanks. **

Well if anybody has any beer drinking questions, feel free to ask away.

[Crowbar_of_Irony_3]

*Originally posted by SpazCat *

<snipped part about Coke and Onion>

**Coke…with…ONION?!? :eek: What vile order of snake oil is this? What the hell good will that do? Coke Inna Bottle, yes, that’s a valid treatment for the flu in my household. But we would never put an onion in it! Onions are for cookin’ not drinkin’!
**

No idea. Supposedly onion is good for killing germs…coke…eh…eh…

is used to trick little kids in swallowing the raw onions. (my theory)

[/quote]

[qupte]
**
<snipped part about vingear and garlic >

So SARS is caused by vampires?

Color me **
[/QUOTE]

She says it kill germs. I can’t see germs, and I don’t see dying on the floor, so I couldn’t confirm whether it is working. But what could survive the stench??

[Eats_Crayons]

*Originally posted by CRorex *
**Canada is doing the right thing, however they need to spend a little more time on PR and explaining their practices. The way the reporting from Canada is making it sound it seems as if people are dying in the streets – I exaggerate but ya know the rate of new cases is incredably high compared to the rest of the world.
**

I’m in Toronto, right in the thick of things (oo! scary) and actually, they are doing a fairly good job at educating, so for the most part it’s business as usual, but there’s a lot more hand soap being made available and --wow!-- people are going through it quickly. The newspapers locally seem to be educating the public fairly well and with minimal speculation. So people are following a pattern of “due dilligence” but most aren’t being overly frightened or alarmed.

With a few exceptions of course. I have a co-worker who is obsessed with it. She so obsessed she is collecting data from no-where-near-reliable sources (a lot of information she is getting is from random website in Hong Kong and are chock full of the latest rumours). She calls her friends a minimum of three times a day to check to see if anyone has symptoms. She wears a mask to and from the office – which mostly just frightens other people. She also won’t leave the office or her home. She is getting on my nerves, but the media is not.

Authorities are trying to find a balance between educating people and frightening them and it’s a tough balance. The Norwalk virus made a huge mess of our hospitals a few months back, so they are trying to avoid a repeat of that chaos.

Most “confirmed Sars patients” are just getting quaratined with bed rest and fluids and are recovering just fine on their own without any meds. A couple of the deaths were in patients who were already being treated for pneumonia (which has a mortality rate significantly higher than Sars).

So, aside from my co-worker, most Torontonians seem to be taking the time to read the papers, assess their risk, and act accordingly. Media outside of Canada really does make it sound bleak, but the reality isn’t nearly so scary.

[Eats_Crayons]

Oh, I should ad that where it is noticeable – some Asian-run businesses (particularly restaurants) are suffering. Movie theatres aren’t quite as hoppingly busy. And boy! do people look uncomfortably nervous taking public transportation. (In fact people are making bad jokes about it.)

But the annoyingly loud nightclub accross the street seems typically busy, churches are at the usual capacity, my dentist has been as busy as a bee, classes are still running, and restaurant owners we know (non-Asian) haven’t noticed any significant drop off of clientele.

[Mort_Furd]

It could be worse (the snake oil stuff, I mean.) My wife drinks an absolutely vile concotion of onion, lemon juice, pepper, and honey when she feels a cold coming on. She swears it helps, but I just figure she jumps the gun a lot of times and drinks the stuff when she wasn’t actually getting a cold.

[CRorex]

I drink vodka when I get sick.

I have SCIENTIFIC evidence that ethanol kills most pathogens.

All I have to do is replace 70% of my total fluid volume with ethanol.

And lets face it, when you’re really hung over you can’t tell if you’re sick.

[T.Slothrop]

Originally posted by Eats_Crayons:

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I’m in Toronto, right in the thick of things (oo! scary)

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It is scary. For the sake of quarantine, shouldn’t the mods refuse posts from Toronto, Hanoi, Hong Kong etc ?

[White_Lightning]

My impression has been that there’s SARS hysteria because nobody knows where it comes from, exactly what it is (I may be wrong on that point by now, haven’t been keeping up on it the last week or two), how it spreads, how to cure it, or even how to tell for sure if somebody actually has it.

Sounds scary to me. Like Lost Cause said – the media may be making a big deal out of it, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a problem.

[Shade]

*Originally posted by Early Out *
True, but given that mutations are random, is it not equally probable that the virus will mutate into a form that’s completely harmless to humans? In fact, since a virus that kills its host worsens its chances of spreading, wouldn’t evolution favor virii that don’t cause any ill effects in their hosts? How many of that variety are out there? Would we even know?

Yes, it’ll mutate in all sorts of ways. But if some viruses* mutate into unviable viruses, some into insta-death viruses, some into harmless viruses, and some into ‘be infectious with no symptoms for a bit, than have a 10% death rate’ viruses, and most stay unchanged, the first and second’ll die off quickly, the last will be as before, but the third will go on an epidemic.

I know there are many harmless bacteria, but I don’t know about viruses. IIRC viruses reproduce by taking over cells, which are detroyed, which is a handicap to being harmless. Oh, I just remembered - I think there are bacteriophage viruses than live off bacteria. Like vigilantes

[Shade]

*I originally used ‘virii’ but decided I’ll use english plurals where possible. Am I correct in using ‘viruses’ to a lot of the same ‘species’, not just many ‘species’?

[Gorsnak]

It seems to me that SARS is potentially as dangerous as the 1918 influenza epidemic. If that potential were to be borne out, it certainly isn’t being blown out of proportion - if anything, the opposite. If you want a disease that’s being blown out of proportion, look at West Nile, not SARS.

[FranticMad]

So some people are scared. Big deal. Why do you care?
Lame rant. Lame BBQ

[coosa]

Early Out, I just made it back to the board, but Shade gave you a better answer than I probably could have managed.

[sub]Shade, all of my textbooks use ‘viruses’ universally. Personally, I think ‘virii’ is a much snazzier word.[/sub]

[elbows]

I have just returned from SE Asia, Singapore specifically. I was stuck there unable to return because of SARS. When I did return I was leaving Singapore for Toronto.

Since my return, (3 days, still 7 days in my quarantine period to go) I am amazed at how little you all have been told about this.

In Singapore I learned that this strange flu has been killing people in China since November. But no one seems to care much when it’s just an odd flu killing some Chinese peasants.

It would appear to have started in a province of China near to Hong Kong and from which much of the pork and chicken consumed in Hong Kong is produced. It would also appear that this was initially a desease of chickens which passed first to the pigs and then on to humans. In China the peasants live with the pigs and chickens so the potential for spread was pretty high.

The WHO was only just being admitted to China when I was leaving, kind of late to do any good really.

Singapore was on top of the thing from the start. The schools were closed, one hospital was designated just for SARS, they traced every person they believed had been exposed and quarantined over 1000 at one point. It’s a mandatory quarantine too, unlike here in Canada where it’s suggested. The schools were closed the day I arrived back from the beach.

I managed to avoid the fear and getting caught up in it. That is until it was time to come home. I really didn’t want to be one of those people you read about in the paper every day. This person climbed off a flight from Asia and infected this many people. I knew the biggest risk for me would be the flight home.

This desease is killing people and has the potential to kill many more. In HongKong a man returned home ill went to his flat and then on to a hospital and within 3 days 180 people were ill, some of whom had no more contact with this man than living above or below his flat. Before the HongKong government could round them up for an internment camp (quarantine) 40 0f them had fled!

Singapore will do fine they have the infrastructure and the preparations to act. Many nations in SE Asia are not so fortunate. Viet Nam, Indonesia, Cambodia; these nations could be devastated in a very short time should it reach them. Not to mention the problem that is China, where they’d rather lie about it than face the truth.

Then there is the whole superinfector scenario which has yet to be explored fully.

I am safely home now and feeling quite confident, but I’d have to disagree about this being blown out of proportion. But then, you don’t seem to be getting as many of the hard facts here as they do in Asia daily, so it must seem like mere hysteria.

[matt_mcl]

I originally used ‘virii’ but decided I’ll use english plurals where possible. Am I correct in using ‘viruses’ to a lot of the same ‘species’, not just many ‘species’?

“Virii” is spurious; the Latin plural of “virus” is “virus”. Given the choice, I would prefer “viruses”.

[Fin_man]

*Originally posted by elbows *
**I am safely home now and feeling quite confident, but I’d have to disagree about this being blown out of proportion. But then, you don’t seem to be getting as many of the hard facts here as they do in Asia daily, so it must seem like mere hysteria. **

Glad you are back and hope you didn’t catch SARS. I quesiton the “facts” that are being disseminated. Rumors/theories/etal are spread via media as facts. You say:

*Originally posted by elbows *
In HongKong a man returned home ill went to his flat and then on to a hospital and within 3 days 180 people were ill, some of whom had no more contact with this man than living above or below his flat.

While this may (and I stress may) be true, how should the media proceed? Should the report this unsubstantiated rumor (or substantiated from a questionable source) or should they wait until some facts are known? Given the history of the media and diseases (like West Nile), alot of anxiety and hysteria are created unnecessarily.

Just last night, CNN’s website has this article - CDC worries SARS could spread in workplace. This article is peppered with may and could. The CDC and WHO should (and are) work around the clock to find out all they can about SARS. And until they have solid information, I believe the media needs to hold off on reporting on SARS other than facts (information/symptoms/etc.).

Each media outlet is looking scoop the others and is rushing to spread rumors/beliefs without waiting for confirmation or corrections. We’ve seen it with the Beltway Sniper, chemical weapons found/not found in Iraq, Saddam dead/no, not dead, etc.