# Satanism; Sound or Sham?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-sound-or-sham/208606
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [October 20, 2003, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-sound-or-sham/208606 "2003-10-20T23:40:55Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@ExecutiveJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExecutiveJesus)
#### Post date: [October 20, 2003, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-sound-or-sham/208606/1 "2003-10-20T23:40:55Z")
All other _religions_ speak of spiritual “evolution” or “salvation” or “gnosis” or “enlightenment” or some other change in what you are to be “okay”.
But, why not just choose to be God and then get on with living your life by using reason to alter what you do.
Is Dr. LaVey’s _Satanism_ sound?
In other words, Satanism says identity is not utility and what you are is immutable and needs to not be confused with your actions (mental or physical).
Because this is in revolt and opposition to all the other religions and mystical schools of humankind, it may be called _Satanism_ after the figure in our culture’s mythos who most clearly represents the Opposer.
Satanism inverts the supposed “evolution nonsense” and cuts to the goal.
Why try to become a God when the only requirement is to simply recognize yourself as one?
Being God is a matter of self definition, not “powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men” (as Superman himself learned when in the first film with Christopher Reeves he was devastated at his inability to save his foster father, Jonathan Kent, from a fatal heart attack).
Being God is to abandon forever the need to have self-esteem and to have to measure yourself against anyone or anything. (I could write an entire book on the importance of this one point alone).
Being God is not something you can achieve. It is something you choose.
Those who make that choice are condemned by the religions of the world as “evil”, “selfish”, and they are called Satanists.
Dr. LaVey codified this foundation into an entirely new religion.
As you may have gathered, I do recognize some good points made by the ideas defininf what is known as _Satanism_ - {_The Church of Satan_}
Would such a “religion” be justified in being one?
Philosphically, regardless of the dressing and devil horns, is the idea of Satanism sound?
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### Author:  [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)
#### Post date: [October 20, 2003, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-sound-or-sham/208606/2 "2003-10-20T23:52:00Z")
No more or less sound than the premise of most religion, but dammit, if you’re going to believe in patently silly things, can’t you at least try to have some dignity? Take this whole satanist thing. You’d be a only mildly out-there branch of humanists if you didn’t adopt the symbol of all evil as your primary symbol. The fact that you did speaks volumes most of which I read as your primary desire is to point and laugh at people who can’t differentiate between symbol and substance.
All IMO, of course.
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### Author:  [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2003, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-sound-or-sham/208606/3 "2003-10-21T00:05:35Z")
It seems to me that religions make an assertion in at least _one_ of two different areas of knowledge:
1. How _ought_ people to live their lives?
2. What is the nature of reality? (how things really are)
Buddhism does alot for #1, but not alot with #2, whereas western religions try to make claims about both. Some other religions might focus more or less on those, but I think those two questions are the centerpiece of religion.
So, in as much Satanism has something to say about true nature of man, and what man _ought_ to do about his nature (embrace it), I’d say it’s a genuine religion by my standards.
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### Author:  [@MrTuffPaws](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrTuffPaws)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2003, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-sound-or-sham/208606/4 "2003-10-21T17:18:01Z")
Satanism is more of a philosophy than a religion, being that it does not recognize a “god or gods” per say. It is a religion of self. This link
[http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanism.htm](http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanism.htm)
Has some good info on mainstream Satanist.
I personally find that Satanism makes far more sense than the Christian religion. Self responsibility is the focus, and only you are to blame for your own situation. You just can’t dismiss things away as the will of god.
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### Author:  [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2003, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-sound-or-sham/208606/5 "2003-10-21T17:32:04Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by ExecutiveJesus \*
> \*\*All other _religions_ speak of spiritual “evolution” or “salvation” or “gnosis” or “enlightenment” or some other change in what you are to be “okay”.
>
> But, why not just choose to be God and then get on with living your life by using reason to alter what you do.\*\*
Because you aren’t God. That’s why.
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### Author:  [@electric\_sheep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/electric_sheep)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2003, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-sound-or-sham/208606/6 "2003-10-21T17:43:29Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by RexDart \*
> \*\*It seems to me that religions make an assertion in at least _one_ of two different areas of knowledge:
>
> 1. How _ought_ people to live their lives?
> 2. What is the nature of reality? (how things really are)
>
> Buddhism does alot for #1, but not alot with #2…\*\*
On the face of it, the samsara/nirvana distinction certainly involves a lot of ontological heavy lifting, as does the doctrine of anicca, etc., but ultimately it all mixes together. Especially in Zen, however, the moral component fades far into the background, followed by the philosophy shortly afterwards.
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### Author:  [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2003, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-sound-or-sham/208606/7 "2003-10-21T17:44:57Z")
Here’s one of the major reasons I am agnostic. Or at least why I don’t give much credence to Christianity. It’s the lack of propaganda from the so called opposition. Consider how in any other situation where you have two factions seeking the support of the people, propaganda flies in all directions.
In the case of Christianity and evil, Satan never appealed to the people to see his side. I see this as a clue that he doesn’t exist and neither does Jesus as the son of a god etc.
Remember that Satan rebelled because he did not want to serve the god that created him. There is nothing inherently evil about this stance.
The evil aspect was inserted by the creators of the Bible.
Christians of course will say that Satan doesn’t need a following, that it’s better for him if people don’t even believe in him.
That’s just too convenient.
So to address the OP, I don’t see that Satanism as it is now is based on any religion that Satan might have adopted.
Just a bunch of hooie, I think.
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### Author:  [@electric\_sheep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/electric_sheep)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2003, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-sound-or-sham/208606/8 "2003-10-21T17:47:11Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by JThunder \*
> \*\*Because you aren’t God. That’s why. \*\*
How do you know?
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### Author:  [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2003, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-sound-or-sham/208606/9 "2003-10-21T18:37:18Z")
I’m a bit of a secular humanist myself which makes me primed for the satanic church already.
But I can’t bite down on some of their philosophies and the name they choose for themselves is an attempt to clash with the Christian church which I want no part of.
In short I think it’s valid I just think it’s silly.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [October 21, 2003, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-sound-or-sham/208606/10 "2003-10-21T22:24:56Z")
From the OP:
> [@](#):
>
> Being God is to abandon forever the need to have self-esteem and to have to measure yourself against anyone or anything. (I could write an entire book on the importance of this one point alone).
Based on what I’ve read on Satanist websites, **ExecutiveJesus,** , Satanists place a **lot** of importance on self-esteem.
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### Author:  [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2003, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-sound-or-sham/208606/11 "2003-10-22T11:41:28Z")
What if Satan won the heavenly revolt and is in fact now in charge ? Not that strange…
The way the bible is filled with bloodshed and suffering its not that far fetched. Of course the devil would need to give his new religion a “good” outview in order to trick people… and thousands of years later we have the vatican protecting pedophiles, protesting vs Gay rights, trying to keep women under control. A major religious war US vs Muslims. Christians are some of the least tolerant theists… etc…
```
Ok... so maybe not... but maybe yes...
Satanists just like the name for the shock value I think.
```
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### Author:  [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2003, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-sound-or-sham/208606/12 "2003-10-22T14:28:28Z")
To really understand why Satanism was chosen as the name, you have to keep in mind that the movement started in the middle of the 1960s, back when counterculture was just getting started. It was really an attempt to set LaVey’s movement as opposite from popular culture as was possible.
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### Author:  [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2003, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-sound-or-sham/208606/13 "2003-10-22T14:39:31Z")
To really understand why Satanism was chosen as the name, you have to keep in mind that the movement started in the middle of the 1960s, back when counterculture was just getting started. It was really an attempt to set LaVey’s movement as opposite from popular culture as was possible.
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### Author:  [@ExecutiveJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExecutiveJesus)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2003, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-sound-or-sham/208606/14 "2003-10-22T17:22:40Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Rashak Mani \*
> \*\*What if Satan won the heavenly revolt and is in fact now in charge ? Not that strange…
>
> The way the bible is filled with bloodshed and suffering its not that far fetched. Of course the devil would need to give his new religion a “good” outview in order to trick people… and thousands of years later we have the vatican protecting pedophiles, protesting vs Gay rights, trying to keep women under control. A major religious war US vs Muslims. Christians are some of the least tolerant theists… etc…
>
> ```
> Ok... so maybe not... but maybe yes...
>
> Satanists just like the name for the shock value I think. **
>
> ```
Technically, you will not find one Church of Satan member who backs the idea of satanism being a counter to Christianity. They find it merely to be a myth, movement, ect. They don’t believe in the christian idea of satan.
However, when talking to most, you’ll find a very rooted hatred with the Church. As one might expect.
But again, the theories of Satanism have nothing to do with Christianity. The term “satan” goes back way before the Bible.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2003, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-sound-or-sham/208606/15 "2003-10-22T18:43:13Z")
Posted by **ExecutiveJesus:**
> [@](#):
>
> The term “satan” goes back way before the Bible.
Does it? My understanding is that it comes from the Hebrew word _shaitan_ – “adversary” – and I have never heard of any recorded usage of it predating the Book of Job.
Posted by **Rashak Mani:**
> [@](#):
>
> What if Satan won the heavenly revolt and is in fact now in charge ? Not that strange…
As a matter of fact, there is a religious tradition, Gnosticism, which regards the Biblical Yahweh, who rules this world, as an evil being – while at the same time believing in a higher, more detached, Supreme Being. This has **nothing** to do with the modern Church of Satan, of course. Gnosticism, dating from the First Century A.D., did give rise to several later sects, such as the Bogomils and Cathars. From [http://www.religioustolerance.org/gnostic2.htm:](http://www.religioustolerance.org/gnostic2.htm:)
> [@](#):
>
> Deity: The Supreme Father God or Supreme God of Truth is remote from human affairs; he is unknowable and undetectable by human senses. She/he created a series of supernatural but finite beings called Aeons. One of these was Sophia, a virgin, who in turn gave birth to an defective, inferior Creator-God, also known as the Demiurge. (Demiurge means “public craftsman” in Greek.) This lower God created the earth and its life forms. This is Jehovah, the God of the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). He is viewed by Gnostics as fundamentally evil, jealous, rigid, lacking in compassion and prone to genocide. The Demiurge “thinks that he is supreme. His pride and incompetence have resulted in the sorry state of the world as we know it, and in the blind and ignorant condition of most of mankind.”
Note that the Demiurge was supreme on this earth from the start, and did not rise to power by rebelling against his own God – so it is probably a mistake to identify the Demiurge with Satan.
From the same site at [http://www.religioustolerance.org/gnostic1.htm:](http://www.religioustolerance.org/gnostic1.htm:)
> [@](#):
>
> Gnosticism consisted of many syncretistic belief systems which combined elements taken from Asian, Babylonian, Egyptian, Greek and Syrian pagan religions, from astrology, and from Judaism and Christianity. They constituted one of the three main branches of early Christianity: the other two being: The remnants of the Jewish Christian sect which was founded by Jesus’ disciples after his execution and centered in Jerusalem, and
> The churches started by Paul, that were eventually to grow and develop into “mainline” Christianity by the end of the third century.
> By the second century CE, many very different Christian-Gnostic sects had formed within the Roman Empire at the eastern end of the Mediterranean. Some Gnostics worked within Jewish Christian and mainline Christian groups, and greatly influenced their beliefs from within. Others formed separate communities. Still others were solitary practitioners.
>
> There does not seem to have been much formal organization among the Gnostics during the early centuries of the Christian movement. As mainline Christianity grew in strength and organization, Gnostic sects came under increasing pressure, oppression and persecution. They almost disappeared by the 6th century. The only group to have survived continuously from the 1st century CE into modern times is the Mandaean sect of Iraq and Iran. This group has about 15,000 members (one source says 1,500), and can trace their history continuously back to the original Gnostic movement.
>
> Many new emerging religions in the West have adopted some ancient Gnostic beliefs and practices. By far, the most successful of these is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints – the LDS or Mormon church, centered in Salt Lake City, UT.
>
> The Gnostic faith is undergoing a resurgence in the 21st century, primarily in Western countries. The counter-cult movement and some other Christian ministries disseminate a great deal of misinformation about the movement.
Mormons are Gnostics? Interesting . . .
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [October 22, 2003, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-sound-or-sham/208606/16 "2003-10-22T19:05:57Z")
Also from the Religious Tolerance website, at [http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr\_sat2.htm:](http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_sat2.htm:)
> [@](#):
>
> Among those books of the Hebrew Scriptures written before 300 BCE, the term “satan” (root word “s’tn”) appears often. The word is derived from the original Hebrew verb “satan” which means “to oppose.” The Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek was widely used in the early Christian church. They translated “satan” as “diaboloc” from which we derive our English term “devil” and “diabolic.”
>
> The word is used to refer to:
>
> Any person acting as an accuser or enemy. For example: 1 Samuel 29:4: The Philistines were distrustful of David, fearing that he would be a satan. (translated “adversary” or “someone who will turn against us”).
> 2 Samuel 19:22: Shime-i apologizes to King David. The King rejects the apology, saying that they should not be a satan to each other (translated “adversary” or “opponent”).
> 1 Kings 5:4: King Solomon is talking to Hiram, the King of Tyre. He says that now that there is neither satan nor bad luck to stop him, he can build the Temple. (translated as “adversary”, “enemy”, or “one who opposes”).
> 1 Kings 11:14: God raised up Hadad the Edomite as a satan against Solomon. (translated as “adversary,” or “opponent”).
>
> a divine messenger sent by God as an adversary: Numbers 22:22 & 32: God appears in a dream, telling Balaam to go with the princes of Moab to meet Balak. But when Balaam sets out the next morning on his donkey, God is angry with him for some reason, and sent an angel/messenger to kill him. The donkey saw the angel and took evasive actions. The angel was invisible to Balaam, who beat the animal. The donkey asked Balaam why he had beat her three times. Balaam, who doesn’t seem to realize that a talking donkey is an unusual occurrence, replies. The angel then appears and explains that he has come as a satan to kill him. (translated as "one who opposes, “withstand,” “adversary”)
>
> a member of God’s inner council; a type of chief prosecutor of Heaven: 1 Chronicles 21:1: Satan, “a supernatural evil emissary,” acting on God’s behalf, has influenced David to hold a census. The census is taken, and God is angry for an unknown reason. Perhaps God does not want humans to be aware of the strength of the army. God then offers David his choice of one of three punishments: a 3 year famine, 3 months of fleeing before his enemies’ armies, or a plague throughout Israel. David selects the plague and God killed 70,000 men (and presumably a similar number of women and many tens of thousands of children). In 2 Samuel 24, the identical event is described. However, this time, the text states that God influenced David to hold the census. Even though God had incited David to enumerate the men of Israel and Judah, he was still angry that it was done and punished the Israelites with a plague. The writings in 2 Samuel are believed to be the original account; 1 Chronicles came later. It is believed that when Samuel was finally edited (circa 560 BCE), the editors thought that all supernatural actions (good and bad) came from God. When Chronicles was written over a century later, (circa 400 BCE) the author viewed God as operating indirectly through his helpers.
> Job 1 and 2: Satan is described as one of the members of the court of heaven. God mentions that he is impressed at the behavior of Job, a blameless man who has lived an upright life. Satan attributes Job’s commendable behavior to his good fortune and says that Job would soon curse God if he had a string of really bad luck. God decides to conduct an experiment with Job; he instructs Satan to destroy all that Job has: kill his animals, murder his employees, and murder his innocent children. But, even after these disasters, Job still does not curse God. So God instructs Satan to up the ante by returning to earth and destroying Job’s health. Here, Satan is portrayed as a servant of God whose task it is to dutifully carry out evil deeds at God’s instruction.
> Zechariah 3:1-7: Satan is again portrayed as a member of God’s council. Here he objects to the selection of Joshua as the high priest.
>
> There are no passages within the older parts of the Hebrew Scriptures where Satan is portrayed as an evil devil - the arch enemy of God and of humanity. At most, he is described as a henchman who carries out God’s evil instructions. There is no dualism here between two powerful supernatural entities: an all-good God and an all-evil Satan. God is portrayed as performing, directly and indirectly, both kind and evil deeds. When:
>
> plagues are to be sent, or
> a great genocidal flood is created to kill off almost all of humanity, except for Noah and his family, or
> Onan was killed because he practiced an elementary form of birth control, in violation of a cultural tradition, or
> Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because its residents were abusive to the needy and to strangers, or
> Lot’s wife is turned into a pillar of salt because she looked the wrong way,
>
> it is God who does it. In essence, the ancient writers of the early Hebrew Scriptures looked upon Jehovah as performing both good and evil deeds. A good indication of this is found in:
>
> Isaiah 45:6-7:
>
> “…I am the LORD and there is none else. I form the light and create darkness. I make peace an create evil. I the LORD do all these things.” (KJV)
>
> or in Job 9:22-23:
>
> “…[God] destroys both the blameless and the wicked. When a scourge brings sudden death, he mocks the despair of the innocent.” (i.e. laughs at the suffering of the victim)
>
> or in Lamentations 3:37-38:
>
> “Who has commanded and it came to pass, unless the Lord has ordained it? Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that good and evil come?”
>
> Development of the Concept of Satan prior to 300 BCE in Ancient Iran:
> Historians have traced the foundations for the concept of Satan to the Indo-European invasion circa 2000 BCE. This migration of what are now called the Kurgan people, emigrated from what is now southern Russia into the Near East, Middle East and Europe. They were polytheists, and worshiped at least one Mother Goddess and one male God. Their religious beliefs were based on the Hindu sacred writings of the Vedas. Those who settled in western Europe became the Celtic people with their religion of Druidism and perhaps what is now called Wicca. Those Kurgans who settled in the Middle East developed religious belief along different lines. They developed the twin concepts of salvation and damnation after death. Upon dying, they believed that soul of the deceased must pass over a narrow bridge on horseback. It was called the “Bridge of the Petitioner.” Rashu, a god, judged each soul and decides who is sufficiently righteous to cross the bridge and who will fall into a type of Hell with “flames and terrible smells.” 1 Once salvation and Heaven, (and damnation and Hell) were created, then the stage was set for the next logical concept: that of a Devil.
>
> Zoroaster (a.k.a. Zarathrustra, Zarthosht) is believed by some to have lived circa 628 to 551 BCE. (Other estimates run from 600 to 6,000 BCE) He was a Persian prophet in what is now Iran. Like Jesus, he was recorded as having been tempted by Satan; he performed many miracles and healings and was considered a supernatural being by his followers. He introduced a major spiritual reform and created what is generally regarded as the first established monotheistic religion in the world. He rejected the worship of the established trinity of Varuna, Mithra and Indra. The new religion, to be called Zoroastrianism, involved the worship of a single male god, Ahura Mazda, the “sovereign, lawmaker, supreme judge, master of day and night, the center of nature and inventor of moral law.” He created the heavens and the earth. In short, he had all of the attributes attributed to Jehovah by the ancient Israelites, but with a different name. Zoroaster also recognized Ahura Mazda’s twin brother: Angra Manyu, (a.k.a. Ahriman) the God of Evil. The only things that he created were snakes, demons, and all of the world’s evil. 2 The old gods of the previous polytheistic religion became the demons of the new faith. Thus, Ahriman became the first Devil that the world has seen, and his assistants became the first cohort of demons under the control of a all-evil deity
>
> Zoroaster taught that Ahura Mazda and Ahriman would continually battle each other until the God of Evil is finally defeated. At this time, the dead will be resurrected, a Last Judgement will divide all the people that have ever lived into two groups; the bad go to Hell for all eternity; the good go to Paradise. As author Gerald. Messandé so eloquently wrote: “The framework of the three monotheisms [Judaism, Christianity, Islam] had been erected. The Devil’s birth certificate was filled out by an Iranian prophet.”
>
> Development of the Concept of Satan, 300 BCE to 100 CE:
> The Scofield reference Bible closes the Hebrew Scriptures with the book of Malachi, 397 BCE. It opens the Christian Scriptures with Matthew’s gospel in 37 CE. This is a gap of over 4 centuries. This interval has traditionally been called the “intertestamental period.” But modern Bible scholarship has found that reality is not quite that neat:
>
> The Book of Daniel seems to have been written circa 165 BCE, in the middle of the intertestamental period. It recounts events 4 centuries earlier and is written as if Daniel was the author.
> The Book of Esther was apparently written in the 1st or 2nd century BCE
> The Gospel of Mark was the first gospel. Most Old Testament scholars date it to about 70 CE. Matthew came along later, circa 80 CE.
>
> Many Jewish writings have been preserved from that era. Some were collected and form the Apocrypha (Greek word meaning “hidden.”). These books appear in the Septuagint (a Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures) and in the Vulgate (early Latin translation of the Bible). They are found in Roman Catholic Bibles and some Protestant Bibles. Conservative Protestants do not accept the Apocrypha as inerrant or inspired by God.
>
> During the last three centuries before Christ’s birth, the portrayal of Satan underwent a major change. The Zoroastrian / Persian dualism concept appeared in Jewish writing: God was now looked upon as wholly good; Satan as profoundly evil. History was seen as a battle between them. No longer was Satan simply God’s prosecuting attorney, helper, or lackey. Satan, and his demons, were now humanity’s greatest enemies.
>
> Author G. Messandé 1 theorizes that from the middle of the 5th century BCE until 53 BC and later, the Jews were on particularly good terms with the Persians. From the latter’s religion, Zoroastrianism, the Jews picked up a number of concepts: the immortality of the soul, angels, and Satan. Of the 3 main divisions of Judaism (Essenes, Pharisees, Saducees) in the 1st century BCE, the Essenes seems to have focused the most on Satan.
>
> Jesus and his disciples accepted the common belief of the 1st century CE that mental illness and some physical ailments were caused by indwelling demons. “Unclean spirits” are mentioned 7 times in Mark, once in Matthew, 3 times in Luke and once in Revelation. A “dumb spirit” and a “deaf spirit” are each mentioned once in Mark. Luke talks about a “spirit of infirmity” in his gospel, and, a “spirit of divination” & an “evil spirit” in Acts. The concept of “violent possession” appears for the first time in Scripture. Demons are believed to posses individuals and cause them to mutilate themselves, to collapse, to foam at the mouth, to thrash around on the ground. Demons are seen as the cause of many physical disabilities, including blindness, spinal deformities, inability to speak. Satan figures prominently throughout the Christian Scriptures: Jesus is tempted by Satan (Matthew 4:1-3, Luke 4:2). The Pharisees accused Jesus of casting out demons in the name of “Beelzebub, the prince of the demons.” (Matthew 12:24)
>
> In the writings of Paul and the other apostles, the character and range of activities of Satan and his demons is further developed. God and Satan are seen as the two most powerful forces in the universe. The duality between an all-good God and all-evil Satan is firmly established. Examples are:
>
> 2 Corinthians 11:12-14: Satan is seen to be responsible for false teaching by “false apostles, deceitful workers.”
> 2 Corinthians 12:7: Satan has given Paul a “thorn in the flesh” to trouble him.
> 1Thessalonians 2:17-18: Satan hindered Paul’s travels
> I Timothy 1:19-20: Hymenaeus and Alexander have fallen away from the faith and blasphemed. Paul had excommunicated them and “delivered them unto Satan.” Here, he is expressing the belief found also in 1 Corinthians 5:5 that once a believer is excommunicated, he will be no longer protected by God. Satan will torment him and perhaps purify him.
>
> The author of the Book of Revelation develops the concept of a great battle between Satan and God at the end of the world as we know it:
>
> Revelation 2:8-9: Satan is portrayed as the power behind the Roman Empire’s persecution of the Christians. The author apparently condemns ex-Christians who pretend that they are Jewish in order to avoid the persecution. They are referred to as the “Synagogue of Satan.”
> Revelation 2:7-9: This passage is similar to Revelation 2:8-9.
> Revelation 12:9: Satan, viewed as the great dragon, and his fallen angels were cast down to earth.
> Revelation 20:2-3: Satan is bound and sealed into an abyss for 1000 years, so that he could no longer deceive the nations.
> Revelation 20:7-8: Satan is released after 1000 years, deceives the nations, and gathers them together for war. He loses.
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### Author:  [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2003, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-sound-or-sham/208606/17 "2003-10-23T20:30:30Z")
I’ve read Lavey and was surprised to find him not nearly as stupid as I expected. However as **robertliguori** said there is really nothing in it except wome watered down humanism dressed up with pentagrams and black cloaks.
The ego-centric philosophy that La Vey propounds is developed much better by Nietzche and Aristotle. Hell, Nietzche is even scarier, for cryin’ out loud.
Also you can’t be god. You can’t even be _a_god. Sorry, guys, but human you came into the world and human you shall leave it.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-sound-or-sham/208606/18 "2003-10-23T21:30:48Z")
Posted by **Larry Borgia:**
> [@](#):
>
> Also you can’t be god. You can’t even be agod. Sorry, guys, but human you came into the world and human you shall leave it.
Speak for yourself, **Larry.** Some of us have higher ambitions. In fact, some of us were never really “human” in the first place. If you are a true Superior Abnormal Mutant of Atlantean Yeti descent, please check out the Church of the SubGenius, [http://www.subgenius.com](http://www.subgenius.com). If you are not, please commit suicide immediately. Praise “Bob”!
Here’s a good summary of Satanic ethics, from the website of the Church of Satan, [http://www.churchofsatan.com/](http://www.churchofsatan.com/). All of these were written by LaVey.
> [@](#):
>
> The Nine Satanic Statements
>
> from The Satanic Bible, ©1969
>
> by Anton Szandor LaVey
>
> 1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!
>
> 2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!
>
> 3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!
>
> 4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!
>
> 5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!
>
> 6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!
>
> 7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!
>
> 8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!
>
> 9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years
>
> * * *
>
> The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth
>
> by Anton Szandor LaVey ©1967
>
> 1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
>
> 2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
>
> 3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.
>
> 4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
>
> 5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
>
> 6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.
>
> 7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
>
> 8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
>
> 9. Do not harm little children.
>
> 10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
>
> 11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.
>
> * * *
>
> The Nine Satanic Sins
>
> by Anton Szandor LaVey ©1987
>
> 1. Stupidity—The top of the list for Satanic Sins. The Cardinal Sin of Satanism. It’s too bad that stupidity isn’t painful. Ignorance is one thing, but our society thrives increasingly on stupidity. It depends on people going along with whatever they are told. The media promotes a cultivated stupidity as a posture that is not only acceptable but laudable. Satanists must learn to see through the tricks and cannot afford to be stupid.
>
> 2. Pretentiousness—Empty posturing can be most irritating and isn’t applying the cardinal rules of Lesser Magic. On equal footing with stupidity for what keeps the money in circulation these days. Everyone’s made to feel like a big shot, whether they can come up with the goods or not.
>
> 3. Solipsism—Can be very dangerous for Satanists. Projecting your reactions, responses and sensibilities onto someone who is probably far less attuned than you are. It is the mistake of expecting people to give you the same consideration, courtesy and respect that you naturally give them. They won’t. Instead, Satanists must strive to apply the dictum of “Do unto others as they do unto you.” It’s work for most of us and requires constant vigilance lest you slip into a comfortable illusion of everyone being like you. As has been said, certain utopias would be ideal in a nation of philosophers, but unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, from a Machiavellian standpoint) we are far from that point.
>
> 4. Self-deceit—It’s in the “Nine Satanic Statements” but deserves to be repeated here. Another cardinal sin. We must not pay homage to any of the sacred cows presented to us, including the roles we are expected to play ourselves. The only time self-deceit should be entered into is when it’s fun, and with awareness. But then, it’s not self-deceit!
>
> 5. Herd Conformity—That’s obvious from a Satanic stance. It’s all right to conform to a person’s wishes, if it ultimately benefits you. But only fools follow along with the herd, letting an impersonal entity dictate to you. The key is to choose a master wisely instead of being enslaved by the whims of the many.
>
> 6. Lack of Perspective—Again, this one can lead to a lot of pain for a Satanist. You must never lose sight of who and what you are, and what a threat you can be, by your very existence. We are making history right now, every day. Always keep the wider historical and social picture in mind. That is an important key to both Lesser and Greater Magic. See the patterns and fit things together as you want the pieces to fall into place. Do not be swayed by herd constraints—know that you are working on another level entirely from the rest of the world.
>
> 7. Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies—Be aware that this is one of the keys to brainwashing people into accepting something new and different, when in reality it’s something that was once widely accepted but is now presented in a new package. We are expected to rave about the genius of the creator and forget the original. This makes for a disposable society.
>
> 8. Counterproductive Pride—That first word is important. Pride is great up to the point you begin to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The rule of Satanism is: if it works for you, great. When it stops working for you, when you’ve painted yourself into a corner and the only way out is to say, I’m sorry, I made a mistake, I wish we could compromise somehow, then do it.
>
> 9. Lack of Aesthetics—This is the physical application of the Balance Factor. Aesthetics is important in Lesser Magic and should be cultivated. It is obvious that no one can collect any money off classical standards of beauty and form most of the time so they are discouraged in a consumer society, but an eye for beauty, for balance, is an essential Satanic tool and must be applied for greatest magical effectiveness. It’s not what’s supposed to be pleasing—it’s what is. Aesthetics is a personal thing, reflective of one’s own nature, but there are universally pleasing and harmonious configurations that should not be denied.
Say what you will about this, but it is definitely a value system, in the sense that _Plan Nine from Outer Space_ is definitely a motion picture.
Also from [http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis3.htm:](http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis3.htm:)
> [@](#):
>
> The following are recommended terms and descriptions of two essentially unrelated beliefs and activities that recognize Satan in their belief system:
> Religious Satanism:
> This religion recognizes Satan, generally as a life principle. Followers are usually serious adults, although a few are mature teenagers. Of the many main traditions which exist, the Church of Satan is by far the largest. Other Satanic groups currently exist and have existed in the recent past. Many are short-lived; their web sites often come and go within a few months. According to Statistic Canada, the 1991 census found only 335 Canadians who identified themselves as Satanists. This would imply that there are about 3,500 Satanists in the U.S. The actual number is probably significantly larger. A US Department of the Army pamphlet #165-13 estimated that there were 10 to 20 thousand members of the Church of Satan in the US during the late 1970’s. 1,2 Accurate data for this movement is impossible to estimate, since the largest group (the Church of Satan) does not release its membership totals.
> It is important to realize that the Satan that they recognize has few if any points of similarity with the conservative Muslim or the Christian concept of Satan. The Satanists’ concept of Satan is pre-Christian, and derived from the Pagan image of power, virility, sexuality and sensuality. To almost religious Satanists, Satan is a force of nature, not a living quasi-deity. Their Satan has nothing to do with Hell, demons, pitchforks, sadistic torture, buying people’s souls, demonic possession, performing miracles, human sacrifices, cannibalism, and profoundly evil deeds.
>
> Satanists have occasionally engaged in a Black Mass for publicity purposes, in which the Roman Catholic Mass is ridiculed. But, otherwise, their rituals have no connection to those of Christianity.
>
> Starting in 1980, there was a growing and widespread belief that Satanists were involved in Satanic Ritual Abuse (SRA) and killing of innocent infants, children and adults. In the late 1980s, believers in SRA expanded their accusations to include a wide variety of other small religious groups as perpetrators. Belief in SRA faded during the 1990s due to a complete lack of hard evidence. It is accepted by most investigators to be a Christian urban legend, based on fear, misinformation, and false memories created during recovered memory therapy.
>
> Satanic Dabbling:
> This is a syncretistic religion which largely lacks a consistent theology. Its followers blend elements copied from religious Satanism, ceremonial Magic, Wicca, other Neopagan traditions, Goddess worship, various Occult traditions, and any other useful source of rituals that the followers can find. Frequently, writings about Gothic Satanism by Evangelical or Fundamentalist Christian authors are added to the mix. It is typically practiced by rebellious teenagers or young adults – generally for a short time. They probably number in the tens or hundreds of thousands at any one instant in North America. An exact estimate is impossible to obtain, since they are totally devoid of any central organization.
>
> They occasionally engage in minor criminal activities such as vandalizing cemeteries and painting Satanic graffiti on walls. In very rare instances, a few have been known to sacrifice small animals. Some look upon Satanism as a method of rebelling against their parents’ beliefs. It is usually a passing fad that they quickly outgrow. Satanic Dabblers have no connection with Religious Satanists. There is of course no connection between teen dabblers and other beliefs and practices which have been called “Satanism,” because the latter do not exist (or are extremely rare). Every few years, the media report a ritual murder of a human by “Satanists.” Further examination has so far revealed that the perpetrators have been primarily motivated by a severe mental illness, rather than by any religious beliefs that they might have.
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### Author:  [@Already\_in\_Use](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Already_in_Use)
#### Post date: [October 24, 2003, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-sound-or-sham/208606/19 "2003-10-24T08:02:32Z")
What bothers me about Satanism is the needless inclusion of Satan as a symbol to dress up what’s basically egoism to further piss off intolerant Christians. (Note that I say “intolerant Christians” because I am well aware that there are many quite tolerant Christians.) The way I see it, if you’re not pissing such people off already with your lifestyle, you’re doing something wrong.
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### Author:  [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)
#### Post date: [October 24, 2003, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-sound-or-sham/208606/20 "2003-10-24T15:15:29Z")
And if you are pissing them off with your lifestyle, why not add a little zest by throwing in Satan?
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