# Satanism--tenets, beliefs & values? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 20, 2014, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-tenets-beliefs-values/681757 "2014-02-20T01:28:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-tenets-beliefs-values/681757/1 "2014-02-20T01:28:28Z")
After the recent mention of the whole Kansas statue thing, the question leaps to mind–exactly what do satanists believe? What are the tenets of their beliefs? Side question–has anybody known a family where the kids were raised in that faith? What were they like? Last side question–do you want fries with that? ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-tenets-beliefs-values/681757/2 "2014-02-20T02:37:35Z")
Satanists are not an organized group. The closest you could get to any centralization of belief would LaVey and his _Satanic Bible_, but even that’s probably not taken seriously by most. Among those who do classify themselves as Satanists, most are probably young punks who think that being a Satanist is somehow sticking it to The Man. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-tenets-beliefs-values/681757/3 "2014-02-20T05:14:46Z")
Not many active members of the Church of Satan, probably even fewer active members of its offshoot the Temple of Set. Numbers, not surprisingly, are hard to come by. Neither believes in Satan as an entity. They also generally do not believe in God, holding both God and Satan to be created by, and aspects of, every individual. “Satanism” is the worship of–actually, more like _embracing of_–the desires, drives, lusts and dreams of mankind without constraint by societal or religious morality. But LaVey pretty much grabbed the name as a way to fuck with the mundanes, IMO. They’re Crowleyan in their dedication to “do as thou wilt,” and are pretty much the crazyass Objectivists of the theological world. I’ve known several, mostly dabblers, but none with kids. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2014, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-tenets-beliefs-values/681757/4 "2014-02-20T22:42:44Z")
For all practical purposes, there AREN’T any Satanic churches, institutions, dogmas or tenets. There’s just a fairly small group of people in the USA who might call themselves Satanists. They tend to fall into a few categories: 1. ATheists who don’t really believe in the devil any more than they believe in God, but get a kick out of being transgressive and messing with the bourgeoisie. Anton LaVey fits into this category. 2. Dumb, bored teenagers who think black magic seems kinda cool. 3. New Agey space cadets who’ve convinced themselves that the “real” Satan isn’t the evil guy described in Scripture, but rather the equivalent of some mischievous but likable pagan god. 4. Criminal lowlives, many from Latin America, who dabble in black magic in the hope that it will make them more powerful, grant them invincibility, or just make them seem scarier to people they want to intimidate. ---
**Author:** ![Ass\_For\_A\_Hat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Ass\_For\_A\_Hat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ass_For_A_Hat)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-tenets-beliefs-values/681757/5 "2014-02-26T02:18:28Z")
I heard a recent interview with Karen Stollznow, author of the book _God Bless America: Strange and Unusual Religious Beliefs and Practices in the United States_. Her research has led her to the conclusion that there is almost no one who believes that Satan exists, who actually worships him as a deity. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-tenets-beliefs-values/681757/6 "2014-02-26T03:15:22Z")
> [@Ass\_For\_A\_Hat](#): > > I heard a recent interview with Karen Stollznow, author of the book _God Bless America: Strange and Unusual Religious Beliefs and Practices in the United States_. Her research has led her to the conclusion that there is almost no one who believes that Satan exists, who actually worships him as a deity. That corresponds with everything I’ve read by people who describe themselves as Satanists. To them “Satan” is just a code word for power, freedom, pleasure, individualism, knowledge, or other similar quality they feel is stunted in traditional religions. I’d be willing to bet just about all of them don’t believe in an actual being called Satan. Satanism seems to be almost entirely defined by what it rejects. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-tenets-beliefs-values/681757/7 "2014-02-26T13:20:25Z")
> [@Ass\_For\_A\_Hat](#): > > I heard a recent interview with Karen Stollznow, author of the book _God Bless America: Strange and Unusual Religious Beliefs and Practices in the United States_. Her research has led her to the conclusion that there is almost no one who believes that Satan exists, who actually worships him as a deity. For all the founding parents of Wicca sought to distance themselves from Satanism, both Gerald Gardner & Doreen Valiente seemed to believe in active diabolist Satanist covens in their day. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-tenets-beliefs-values/681757/8 "2014-02-26T16:04:44Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > For all the founding parents of Wicca sought to distance themselves from Satanism, both Gerald Gardner & Doreen Valiente seemed to believe in active diabolist Satanist covens in their day. Did they? I’m inclined take your word on it in re Gardner, who was as nutbally a nutball as ever balled a nut. (Exhibit A: He was a Rosicrucian, for fuck’s sake. Exhibit B: He was arguably a Crowleyist.) But from what I’ve seen, Ameth was well in the “RSA is a pile of horseshit” camp. Can you point me to statements from them, particularly from Ameth, indicating their belief in active Satanism? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-tenets-beliefs-values/681757/9 "2014-02-26T16:09:41Z")
The most important points I gleam from the [CoS website](http://www.churchofsatan.com/) are: 1. Satanism is not simply inverted Christianity. E.g., if Christians are enjoined to love other people and help them, Satanists are not enjoined to go out and cause harm and trouble and mischief. **Some** elements of Christianity are inverted in Satanism – most importantly, humility is discarded and pride made a virtue. 2. Satanists do not really worship Satan. They worship themselves. “Satan” is just their pet-name for their own egos. 3. Satanism, unlike Christianity, makes no pretense of being for everybody. It is only for those of proud and bold and fierce and noble character. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-tenets-beliefs-values/681757/10 "2014-02-26T16:19:08Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > For all the founding parents of Wicca sought to distance themselves from Satanism, both Gerald Gardner & Doreen Valiente seemed to believe in active diabolist Satanist covens in their day. Cite for the **existence** of such covens in their day? ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-tenets-beliefs-values/681757/11 "2014-02-27T07:43:13Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Did they? I’m inclined take your word on it in re Gardner, who was as nutbally a nutball as ever balled a nut. (Exhibit A: He was a Rosicrucian, for fuck’s sake. Exhibit B: He was arguably a Crowleyist.) > > But from what I’ve seen, Ameth was well in the “RSA is a pile of horseshit” camp. > > Can you point me to statements from them, particularly from Ameth, indicating their belief in active Satanism? OK, I would have to dig out the books. Let’s table this till I can find where I thought I got it from. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-tenets-beliefs-values/681757/12 "2014-02-27T08:04:23Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > OK, I would have to dig out the books. Let’s table this till I can find where I thought I got it from. It would have to have been her “An ABC of Witchcraft” or “Witchcraft for Tomorrow”. IIRC, what she said was that she knew of people/groups who practice Satanism much as described by Dennis Wheatley. Now, that could be true & still consistent with disbelief in SRA. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-tenets-beliefs-values/681757/13 "2014-02-27T08:09:09Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > To them “Satan” is just a code word for power, freedom, pleasure, individualism, knowledge, or other similar quality they feel is stunted in traditional religions. I’d be willing to bet just about all of them don’t believe in an actual being called Satan. Satanism seems to be almost entirely defined by what it rejects. But, also, the concept of Satan is in fact inextricably a tenet of Christianity. If you adopt Satanism you are in fact also adopting Christianity, whether you like it or not. They understand this without realizing it, and it’s why they don’t really believe in such a being. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-tenets-beliefs-values/681757/14 "2014-02-27T15:49:30Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > But, also, the concept of Satan is in fact inextricably a tenet of Christianity. If you adopt Satanism you are in fact also adopting Christianity, whether you like it or not. They understand this without realizing it, and it’s why they don’t really believe in such a being. Not sure what you’re saying here. LaVeyan Satanists, at least, certainly acknowledge the _existence_ of Christianity, and recognize the Christian concept of Satan. That doesn’t mean they believe in the Christian constructs of God or Satan, and it doesn’t mean that in calling themselves Satanists they are adopting Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-tenets-beliefs-values/681757/15 "2014-02-27T16:29:55Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > But, also, the concept of Satan is in fact inextricably a tenet of Christianity. If you adopt Satanism you are in fact also adopting Christianity, whether you like it or not. They understand this without realizing it, and it’s why they don’t really believe in such a being. I don’t know about “adopting” it, but Satanists are reacting against it. Or (more commonly IME) using it to get a rise out of people. One of the tenets of Satanism appears to be trolling. When piercings and death metal aren’t enough anymore, what are ya gonna do? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-tenets-beliefs-values/681757/16 "2014-02-27T17:18:11Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > But, also, the concept of Satan is in fact inextricably a tenet of Christianity. If you adopt Satanism you are in fact also adopting Christianity, whether you like it or not. They understand this without realizing it, and it’s why they don’t really believe in such a being. [Well, not necessarily exactly.](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Satanism) > [@](#): > > The idea of devil worship is centuries old, although the usage of the term “Satanism” to describe a specific belief system appears to date from the nineteenth century.[1] Stories of devil-worshippers existed in the middle ages and later but were largely folkloric and did not describe genuine religious practices. However, there have been a few branches of religious belief which involve the worship of Satan. > > In Sweden, where the process of Christianization lasted into the second millenium AD,[2] there is evidence that Satan received a degree of popular worship into the early modern era as an ambivalent or even benign spirit of nature, possibly the result of the Judeo-Christian figure blending with traces of local pagan deities. For example, in 1739 a Swedish fisherman named Mickel Kalkström remarked that he prayed to the Devil for help in his pursuit, believing that God had little or no power over fish. Testimonies from the trials of alleged sorcerers in seventeenth-century Sweden, meanwhile, equate Satan with various traditional nature spirits. Historian Mikael Häll points out that many of these people were outlaws living in the woods, and speculates that they may have adopted Satan as a sort of patron spirit. He concludes that, while it is unlikely that there was an organised cult of devil-worship in Sweden at the time, there were people who could be termed Satanists.[3] See also: > [@](#): > > **Theistic Satanism** > > Theistic Satanism believes that “Satan” is an actual independently existing being, which serves as a God-analogue. While atheistic Satanists deny that the Christian God exists. Theistic Satanists vary in their opinions: > > - Most deny God’s existence altogether > - Some believe that God exists, but is weaker than Satan > - Some believe that God exists, and that Satan is weaker and God will ultimately triumph over him — and they will be consigned along with Satan to an eternity in hell. They believe that it is “better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven”, as Milton said. > - Some believe that both God and Satan exist but that the final outcome of all this is unknowable. > - Some believe that God exists but is unworthy of worship and choose to worship Satan rather than show even tacit approval for such a God. > > A prominent example of theistic Satanism is the Temple of Set. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-tenets-beliefs-values/681757/17 "2014-02-28T01:06:08Z")
The earliest person in history who we know self-identified as a Satanist was Carl William Hansen, a Danish dairy merchant. This was in 1906. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-tenets-beliefs-values/681757/18 "2014-02-28T01:34:41Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > The earliest person in history who we know self-identified as a Satanist was Carl William Hansen, a Danish dairy merchant. This was in 1906. He was a Luciferian, but please share your sources on him. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-tenets-beliefs-values/681757/19 "2014-02-28T01:38:27Z")
> [@andros](#): > > He was a Luciferian, but please share your sources on him. Yep, that is indeed the term he used. The best source is the 2006 reprint of his pamphlet, _Den Ny Morgens Gry_. It’s in Danish, though. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-tenets-beliefs-values/681757/20 "2014-02-28T01:42:43Z")
Hmm. It’s my understanding that Luciferians–_not_, strictly speaking, Satanists–have been around for centuries. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satanism-tenets-beliefs-values/681757.md?page=2)