# Satan's cigarrette meter **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 23, 2000, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satans-cigarrette-meter/30443 "2000-08-23T14:50:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Outrider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9d8465/32.png) [@Outrider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Outrider)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2000, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satans-cigarrette-meter/30443/21 "2000-08-24T14:18:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Satan \* > \*\*bookblower: > > Quite a shame you don’t like my meter, as I do so live to impress you. > > All I know is that my meter has encouraged no less than half a dozen people to quit smoking, which even the happiest current smoker would say is a good thing. > > I will gladly take the tradeoff of that positive influence on a good number of people and risk the wrath of a few jerk-offs\*\* Spare me the drama. Bibliophage made a thoughtless, casually derisive post, but you and FreakFeely obviously didn’t even bother to read it. The only statement made by Bibliophage was that he didn’t care how long it’s been since you quit smoking. Big deal. I don’t care either. Who does? If you had bothered to read the post, you would have noticed that Bibliophage never says that you should actually remove your sig or that it bothers him. He just states that he doesn’t give a shit. It’s rather sad that you and FreakFeely took this as an opportunity to jerk off your own egos. I specifically refer to the part where you preach about your “positive influence.” Give me a break. No, scratch that, give your _ego_ a break. Your response to Biblio’s post was unwarranted and childish. You reacted to a dumb comment by making an even dumber one. Note: I don’t mind your sig. I actually think it’s rather amusing when people proclaim how great they are for _not_ doing something bad. Perhaps I should add a meter to MY sig that says “I have not started a major World War in the past 17 years. Lives saved: 200 million. Money saved: $3.2 trillion” Or perhaps if Robert Downey Jr. posted here, he could have a sig that said: “I have not snorted crack in the past 7 hours” or something of that nature. As Chris Rock would say: “What do you want? A fucking cookie?” ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2000, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satans-cigarrette-meter/30443/22 "2000-08-24T14:33:26Z")
Outrider, Bibliophage and other assorted assholes: This was a pretty fun little thread until you guys showed up. ---
**Author:** ![Silo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac91a4/32.png) [@Silo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silo)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2000, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satans-cigarrette-meter/30443/23 "2000-08-24T14:51:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Drain Bead \* > \*\*Damn it! > > I just threw all that Astroglide away after what Scylla said! Now you’re telling me it’s going to be more than once a week? > > _runs screaming after the garbage truck_ \*\* Hehehe, guess it’s time to be a “rough rider.” ---
**Author:** ![Outrider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9d8465/32.png) [@Outrider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Outrider)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2000, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satans-cigarrette-meter/30443/24 "2000-08-24T14:58:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*Outrider, Bibliophage and other assorted assholes: > > This was a pretty fun little thread until you guys showed up. \*\* Sorry, didn’t mean to distract you from the fascinating discussion of senior citizen sex. ---
**Author:** ![TomH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/90db22/32.png) [@TomH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TomH)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2000, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satans-cigarrette-meter/30443/25 "2000-08-24T15:13:00Z")
> [@](#): > > All I know is that my meter has encouraged no [fewer] than half a dozen people to quit smoking, which even the happiest current smoker would say is a good thing. Not necessarily. You would need to be confident that:– (a) the meter hadn’t had an adverse effect on some other people’s atempts to give up smoking or induced some other people to start smoking (harm does not outweigh benefit); (b) those people who have been encouraged to give up by the meter gave up for long enough to enjoy some consequent health or other benefit (benefit is real); and © those people who were encouraged to give up by the meter for long enough to enjoy some consequent benefit would not have done so had it not been for the meter (putative cause-and-effect relationship obtains). TomH _Smoke-free for exactly 11 months today. Alcohol free for two days. Sig-free for about nine months_ ---
**Author:** ![right\_said\_fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@right\_said\_fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/right_said_fred)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2000, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satans-cigarrette-meter/30443/26 "2000-08-24T15:52:07Z")
Satan’s sig should also read: DAYS I EVEN KNEW THE EXISTANCE OF right said fred: 125 Need proof? [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=15652](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=15652) Shit! Fuck! Land Shark! ::running to the SDMB higher realms:: * * * I’m too sexy for a sig. (Sorry, the Devil made me do it.) ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2000, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satans-cigarrette-meter/30443/27 "2000-08-24T18:56:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Outrider \* > > \*\*Bibliophage made a thoughtless, casually derisive post, but you and FreakFeely obviously didn’t even bother to read it. The only statement made by Bibliophage was that he didn’t care how long it’s been since you quit smoking. Big deal. I don’t care either. Who does? \*\* And please show me where in my post I did not respond in kind, eh? Did you bother to read my post? Of course, I am speaking for myself here. Freak flew off the handle, as he is prone to do. I, however, Defended myself and called the poster irrelevent, since that is essentially what said poster did to my meter. Again, a response in kind. And call me nutty, but if I don’t care about something, I generally don’t respond to it. The moment you take the time to respond to something, you obviously care. Maybe not a great deal, but the real ambivalent people probably did not post here. So, I must assume that something caused him to post (and you, for that matter). Wonder what that was…? Hmm… Now, as for TomH’s post, please show me some proof that my meter is detrimental for any of the reasons you gave. I can offer direct testimonials from Dopers and point out threads where people pointed to my meter as a positive force. Except for the people who are - …Well, they say they’re not annoyed, but then they post while claiming to not care either way, so I don’t know what the fuck they are - I have seen no negatives associated with my meter, and I would like for you to bring some to my attention, please. Anyone else want to bitch? Man, so much shit going on in the world, and people have to complain about my meter. I can’t wait until my life is so complete and wonderful that something as insignificant as that would make me react to it. * * * Yer pal, Satan [sub]I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR: Four months, two weeks, one day, 16 hours, 55 minutes and 28 seconds. 5508 cigarettes not smoked, saving $688.52. Extra life with Drain Bead: 2 weeks, 5 days, 3 hours, 0 minutes.[/sub] **_"Satan is not an unattractive person."_-Drain Bead** [sub]Thanks for the ringing endorsement, honey![/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2000, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satans-cigarrette-meter/30443/28 "2000-08-24T19:07:20Z")
How much life do you have tave up befor you can cash it in for free merchandise? Sorry, Dark Prince. I started this thread with humorous intent. I didn’t realize that your little meter thingy might be such a catalyst for hate. Between this and the whole French thing a couple of threads down, I’m beginning to think that maybe I should post about the weather. Is there a pill these people can take for hpersensitivity? ---
**Author:** ![Outrider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9d8465/32.png) [@Outrider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Outrider)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2000, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satans-cigarrette-meter/30443/29 "2000-08-24T19:17:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Satan \* > **So, I must assume that something caused him to post (and you, for that matter). Wonder what that was…? Hmm…** The reason I posted was because your and Freak’s responses seemed way out of line in their tone and agression. OK, so this is the Pit. Still, it seemed pretty ridiculous to me how hard you tried to attack biblio. In my view, you went way beyond defending yourself. My problem was more with your attack and self-righteous tone than with your meter (which I don’t have much of a problem with.) Unfortunately, I’m still too much of a newbie to write coherent, well-targeted flames. Practice makes perfect and all that. Maybe I’ll be more convincing next time. ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2000, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satans-cigarrette-meter/30443/30 "2000-08-24T19:25:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Outrider \* > > \*\*The reason I posted was because your and Freak’s responses seemed way out of line in their tone and agression. \*\* Please quote from me the parts of my post which are “way out of line in (its) tone and agression” to me, thanks. > [@](#): > > \*\*Still, it seemed pretty ridiculous to me how hard you tried to attack biblio. In my view, you went way beyond defending yourself. \*\* I repeat myself: What in my post was “beyond defending myself.” > [@](#): > > \*\*My problem was more with your attack and self-righteous tone than with your meter (which I don’t have much of a problem with.) \*\* My attack was - as I said - an explanation and a rebuttal in kind and in the spirit of what I was responding to. My tone that the meter is helpful is self-righteous? Maybe. But I was trying to be nice. Frankly, it would have been a hell of a lot more self-righteous of me if I would have just said, “I like my sig and that’s all that matters.” Fact is, that would have been enough. Fact is, I don’t think I should have to apologize for my sig. instead, I decided to show that even if you don’t care about it or it bothers you, others benefit. I don’t find that self-righteous. I find it righteous. Complaining about something that others like - and to top it off, not even having a reason to complain - to me is far more self-righteous than I ever was or could be. > [@](#): > > **Unfortunately, I’m still too much of a newbie to write coherent, well-targeted flames.** Agreed. * * * Yer pal, Satan [sub]I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR: Four months, two weeks, one day, 17 hours, 24 minutes and 0 seconds. 5509 cigarettes not smoked, saving $688.63. Extra life with Drain Bead: 2 weeks, 5 days, 3 hours, 5 minutes.[/sub] **_"Satan is not an unattractive person."_-Drain Bead** [sub]Thanks for the ringing endorsement, honey![/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2000, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satans-cigarrette-meter/30443/31 "2000-08-24T19:33:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > > \*\*Sorry, Dark Prince. I started this thread with humorous intent. I didn’t realize that your little meter thingy might be such a catalyst for hate. Between this and the whole French thing a couple of threads down, I’m beginning to think that maybe I should post about the weather. Is there a pill these people can take for hpersensitivity? \*\* Don’t worry about it. I knew the spirit in which you started this, and I think I (and others) were in that spirit. There’s not a single thing I have ever posted which did not get scrutiny from someone here for some reason. Feel free to call me a martyr for saying it, I don’t care and in fact, that will just give evidence that I am correct. I joked around with Drain Bead once that I was going to start a thread about something which was so obvious that nobody could disagree with my position. Like, killing your children and eating their flesh is bad. Just to see if anyone would find a way to disagree with that. Whatever. I can’t please everyone. My name lends itself to people wanting to take me on sometimes. I’ll make a post or two to defend myself, maybe call the offender a dork, and move on… * * * Yer pal, Satan [sub]I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR: Four months, two weeks, one day, 17 hours, 32 minutes and 23 seconds. 5509 cigarettes not smoked, saving $688.65. Extra life with Drain Bead: 2 weeks, 5 days, 3 hours, 5 minutes.[/sub] **_"Satan is not an unattractive person."_-Drain Bead** [sub]Thanks for the ringing endorsement, honey![/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Lauralee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Lauralee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lauralee)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2000, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satans-cigarrette-meter/30443/32 "2000-08-24T19:57:24Z")
Bah. I disagree with you all the time and you haven’t called me a dork yet. ---
**Author:** ![Falcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/49beb7/32.png) [@Falcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falcon)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2000, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satans-cigarrette-meter/30443/33 "2000-08-24T20:12:41Z")
You’re a dork, Lauralee. Feel better? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lauralee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Lauralee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lauralee)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2000, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satans-cigarrette-meter/30443/34 "2000-08-24T20:17:36Z")
Oooooo… a smilie in the Pit? And you’re calling _me_ a dork?? ---
**Author:** ![Sealemon88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Sealemon88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sealemon88)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2000, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satans-cigarrette-meter/30443/35 "2000-08-24T20:48:20Z")
I think the meter’s kind of cool. Especially the “money saved” part. ---
**Author:** ![TomH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/90db22/32.png) [@TomH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TomH)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2000, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satans-cigarrette-meter/30443/36 "2000-08-24T23:14:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Now, as for TomH’s post, please show me some proof that my meter is detrimental for any of the reasons you gave… (etc.). If you read my post more carefully, you will see that I was not suggesting that the meter was detrimental. I was suggesting that you would have to provide more than a few testimonials to prove that the meter was beneficial for others. Your claim was: (1) That your meter had encouraged at least six people to give up smoking; and (2) That it was therefore a good thing. In order to be satisfied that point (2) is true, you would need to be satisfied of points (a) to © in my first post. Others may have benefited, they may not, I am only pointing out that whether or not they have remains to be seen. In fact, it is not point (a) which I think is most likely to undermine your claim (in other words, I don’t think the meter will acutally cause people to smoke). But points (b) and ©: either those people who found the meter “encouraging” would have given given up anyway, or they will not stay stopped for long enough to enjoy the benefits, or both. In other words, the case that the meter is actively beneficial for others is **not proven** and that it is misleading to make that claim until it is. > [@](#): > > The moment you take the time to respond to something, you obviously care … I can’t wait until my life is so complete and wonderful that something as insignificant as that would make me react to it. When you can’t fault the logic, attack the motive. But since you have decided to make it an issue, here’s a link to a site that contains some intelligent discussion of the problems when people don’t understand that a few testimonials are not proof fo effectiveness. [Quackwatch](http://www.quackwatch.com) > [@](#): > > We all tend to believe what others tell us about personal experiences. But separating cause and effect from coincidence can be difficult. If people tell you that product X has cured their cancer, arthritis, or whatever, be skeptical. … Establishing medical truths requires careful and repeated investigation – with well-designed experiments, not reports of coincidences misperceived as cause-and-effect. That’s why testimonial evidence is forbidden in scientific articles, is usually inadmissible in court, and is not used to evaluate whether or not drugs should be legally marketable. Frankly, I couldn’t give two hoots about the meter, but I do care about people promulgating the dangerous myth that if a few people say it worked for them, then it’s a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Myrr21](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Myrr21](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrr21)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2000, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satans-cigarrette-meter/30443/37 "2000-08-24T23:34:50Z")
For God’s sake, this is a meter, not a fucking diet pill. Unless Satan is encouraging people to go out and burn down the neighborhood, I fail to see how there \*\* could \*\* be a negative effect of his meter (besides on those folks who dislike sigs, but they’re silly anyway). He has evidence it helped, nobody’s offered any evidence that it hurt. Therefore, the evidence suggests that his meter is a beneficial thing. Until someone offers evidence to the contrary, the theory holds up. Science, ain’t it grand? ---
**Author:** ![Satan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Satan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2000, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satans-cigarrette-meter/30443/38 "2000-08-24T23:43:50Z")
\*\*\*PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT: If anyone has been damaged, hurt, or somehow upset by my meter, please come forward now.\*\*\* If nobody does, I will assume my meter helped some people (from people who already came forward), a whole gigantic slew of people don’t care one way or another, and hurt absolutely nobody. Now, should some people say they were hurt by my meter (and a reason why they were hurt), I will genuinely put thought into stopping using the meter, since I don’t want to hurt anyone. Any problems with that? And don’t speak to me of “faulting the motive.” Outrider said, “The only statement made by Bibliophage was that he didn’t care how long it’s been since you quit smoking. Big deal. I don’t care either. Who does?” He brought up that people didn’t care. I brought up if you didn’t care, why did you post? And your medical analogy is false in one regard. In those cases, people come right out and refute what someone else said with _evidence_ to back them up that certain doctors were quacks and certain practices were quackery. As of now, there is no evidence that I am wrong, is there? Ultimately, I am not saying “A few people said it helped, therefore it didn’t hurt.” What I am saying, MENSA-boy, is, “nobody has told me it has hurt them AND several people said it helps them.” In all the time I’ve used the meter, not one complaint - aside from “Who cares,” which according to the poster who defended not caring and also professed to not care, is not a complaint but an observation. And “who cares?” does not hurt anyone. A “logical construct” which shows the possibility of me being wrong is not the same as evidence against me, and your “logical construct” is based on a faulty premise anyway. That said, I am aware that “absense of evidence is not evidence of absense,” so I openly ask for horror stories about my meter to gain that evidence (even though anyone could have just said something all this time without the invitation; I never started a “post here if my meter helped you” thread and I still had people posting and e-mailing me) in the odd chance I am wrong. I suspect that no evidence will come, because I suspect that I am right - that it hurts no one, it has helped people, and anyone complaining that “they don’t care” is just bitching so they can hear themselves bitch - not uncommon around these parts. I’ll be more than happy to change my views (and my sig) should I be proven wrong. So, will someone come along and prove me wrong please? And if that does not happen, will someone tell MattH he’s fucking annoying? * * * Yer pal (unless you’re fucking annoying), Satan [sub]I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR: Four months, two weeks, one day, 21 hours, 42 minutes and 22 seconds. 5516 cigarettes not smoked, saving $689.52. Extra life with Drain Bead: 2 weeks, 5 days, 3 hours, 40 minutes.[/sub] **_"Satan is not an unattractive person."_-Drain Bead** [sub]Thanks for the ringing endorsement, honey![/sub] ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2000, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satans-cigarrette-meter/30443/39 "2000-08-24T23:49:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Satan \* > \*\*\*PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT: > > If anyone has been damaged, hurt, or somehow upset by my meter, please come forward now.\*\*\* Well, I was carrying a big heavy thread from GQ to MPSIMS one time, and it was all dark and I tripped over your damned meter, stubbed my toe, bruised my shin on GD and banged my head on the Pit when I fell. So there! ---
**Author:** ![FreakFreely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/48db29/32.png) [@FreakFreely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FreakFreely)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2000, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satans-cigarrette-meter/30443/40 "2000-08-24T23:49:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Freak flew off the handle, as he is prone to do. Excuse me? _ **EXCUSE ME?!?!?!** _ I NEVER fly off the handle, you rectal probe! You slinky chaser! You poorly-dressed rodeo clown! If you EVER talk like that to me again, I will hunt you down and use your face for luncheon meat! I’ll go Mike Tyson on your ass and leave you without ears! I’ll take your pitchfork and shove it up your ass, pointy-side first! I’ll dye your clothes in various colors and play twister! I’ll… Oh… wait, you meant it in a figurative sense? Oh. I thought you meant I wasn’t being true to my screen name. Yeah, I guess I do fly off the handle sometimes… **PRONE?!** You said _ **PRONE?!?!** _ Fuck it, that’s the last straw! I’m gonna take your ass to school! Then I’m gonna take your ass to the library! And the prom! And… screw it, I’m gonna go get something to eat. Bitch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satans-cigarrette-meter/30443.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satans-cigarrette-meter/30443.md?page=3)