# Satellite TV piracy: detectable? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 18, 2002, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satellite-tv-piracy-detectable/143453 "2002-12-18T00:26:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satellite-tv-piracy-detectable/143453/21 "2002-12-18T14:43:55Z")
This thread reminds me of an idiot ex-roommate who insisted that having a radar detector in your car made every radar gun within 50 miles go haywire automatically. Moron. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satellite-tv-piracy-detectable/143453/22 "2002-12-18T14:47:43Z")
I don’t know if the TV companies actually do this, but I can think of at least one method that could be used to foil counterfeit descramblers. Every week (or day, or month, or whatever period they choose), the dish company would generate a random number, and XOR the signal with that number. The decoders would then be programmed to phone in to the main office every week to pick up that number, and then XOR the data again. The main office could then just caller ID the boxes that were calling in, and match that with the numbers of their legal customers. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satellite-tv-piracy-detectable/143453/23 "2002-12-18T15:42:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > \*\*I don’t know if the TV companies actually do this, but I can think of at least one method that could be used to foil counterfeit descramblers. Every week (or day, or month, or whatever period they choose), the dish company would generate a random number, and XOR the signal with that number. The decoders would then be programmed to phone in to the main office every week to pick up that number, and then XOR the data again. The main office could then just caller ID the boxes that were calling in, and match that with the numbers of their legal customers. \*\* I believe some European systems do this. I do not think the box phones anywhere but the cable company sends you a card (key) which you insert in the box. I believe this system has been broken quite easily. Note that the strength of an encryption is dependent on two things: the legth of the key (bigger is better) and the length of the encrypted information (bigger is worse). A TV channel sends enormous amounts of info. I believe you can get some system which, when the key is changed onece a month, the system takes a while to figure out the new key and then you are set for another month. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satellite-tv-piracy-detectable/143453/24 "2002-12-18T15:49:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manhattan \* > \*\*So are TV’s, but Great Britain apparently has little trucks to drive by the homes of people who haven’t paid the TV tax to see if they’re watching. Is it possible that the [local oscillator](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_355.html) of a TV is powerful enough to be picked up by the right equipment from the street? Would a Sat-TV receiver have something similar? \*\* We have discussed this in several threads in the past and my conclusion is that, while it may be theoretically possible to detect TV receivers, that is not in fact what the BBC does. First of all it would be pretty difficult to pinpoint every TV set in a block of apartments. Besides evidence seems to show the BBC just relies on assuming every address has a TV and mailing scary reminders. I think the vans are just aimed mostly to make people believe the government does have in fact the power to know if they are watching TV. It is psycological more than practical. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satellite-tv-piracy-detectable/143453/25 "2002-12-18T15:55:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chronos \* > \*\*I don’t know if the TV companies actually do this, but I can think of at least one method that could be used to foil counterfeit descramblers. Every week (or day, or month, or whatever period they choose), the dish company would generate a random number, and XOR the signal with that number. The decoders would then be programmed to phone in to the main office every week to pick up that number, and then XOR the data again. The main office could then just caller ID the boxes that were calling in, and match that with the numbers of their legal customers. \*\* Hmmm…a friend of mine once had the hypotheical ‘black box’ to decode satellite signals. I’m not sure how it works but the satellite occasionally does _something_ that either fries these cards or renders them inoperable. The satellite company doesn’t know who is stealing cable but they make it so you have to buy a new decoder card every few months which turns out to be more expensive and more hassle than just paying for the service in the first place. As to **Manhattan’s** bit about trucks driving around they used to do this in Chicago. Back in the 80’s there was a pay broadcast service called ON TV (IIRC). Apparently they would drive trucks around and point an antenna at a house and determine what channel you were watching. If you were watching the ON TV channel and not on their subscriber list they knew to bust you. However, they found they had to do this at certain times as in the late evening they had adult programming and tons of teenage boys were more than content to tune in the scrambled (big line down the center of the screen) signal to catch the occasional boob shot that drifted to the side of the screen. ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satellite-tv-piracy-detectable/143453/26 "2002-12-18T16:45:22Z")
Our local cable company detects illegal boxes by driving by because people put them on top of the tv & they can see them in the window. I suppose that would work with satellite decoders too? ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satellite-tv-piracy-detectable/143453/27 "2002-12-18T17:35:07Z")
Buddy of mine worked for Media One (who provided our cable bought by AT&T Broadband) Line impedance: Whenever you hook up or disconnect a box it creates a detectable shift in line impedance computers monitoring system integrity track those shifts and create lists of areas to check on. It might just be someone moving their TV, might be someone hooking up service. All they really have to do is walk up to the junction box on your street/block/apt building and see whos hooked up compared to the subscriber addys that should be on that box. Not a subscriber but hooked up… busted. My personal favorite: Free offers… A commercial adverising a cheap or free giveaway item “first 1000 to call get this cool beer can holder with rusty wallace on it!” Compare orders to subscriber database. In all cases they still verified by going out to check physical connections. IIRC they sent you a little note that said "you agree to pay $X or we file a civil suit for $5,000. IIIRC the $5,000 was arrived at as the price of full cable access plus all pay per view events for 1 year or something like that and was considered “reasonable” by the local courts. The few that fought it were rumored to have lost. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satellite-tv-piracy-detectable/143453/28 "2002-12-18T18:40:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Whack-a-Mole \* > \*\* Back in the 80’s there was a pay broadcast service called ON TV (IIRC). \*\* How can you charge for broadcasts when broadcast frequencies are owned by the citizens? Did you have to buy or rent a special device? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satellite-tv-piracy-detectable/143453/29 "2002-12-18T18:45:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by carnivorousplant \* > \*\*How can you charge for broadcasts when broadcast frequencies are owned by the citizens? Did you have to buy or rent a special device? \*\* Yes…when you subscribed to the service you got a box that would decode the signal. Without the box you could still tune the channel but a fat line ran down the center of the picture and the picture was wavy. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satellite-tv-piracy-detectable/143453/30 "2002-12-18T18:51:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by handy \* > \*\*Our local cable company detects illegal boxes by driving by because people put them on top of the tv & they can see them in the window. > \*\* Peeking in the window would work for all sorts of law breaking; drug use, sodomy, eating cilantro. Has Ashcroft heard about this? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satellite-tv-piracy-detectable/143453/31 "2002-12-18T19:00:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by carnivorousplant \* > \*\*How can you charge for broadcasts when broadcast frequencies are owned by the citizens? \*\* By paying a bit more for the franchise to operate this particular frequency. Which the citizens’ duly selected representatives incorporated into the law that regulates how their frequencies are used. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satellite-tv-piracy-detectable/143453/32 "2002-12-18T19:18:50Z")
I don’t suppose anyone has a cite on charging for reception of a broadcast station? ---
**Author:** ![SC\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@SC\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SC_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2002, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satellite-tv-piracy-detectable/143453/33 "2002-12-18T22:56:48Z")
My parent used to pay for a service that was broadcast out of Philidelphia in the early 80s. Not much of a cite, but such a beast did exist at one time. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satellite-tv-piracy-detectable/143453/34 "2002-12-19T00:11:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Hmmm…a friend of mine once had the hypotheical ‘black box’ to decode satellite signals. I’m not sure how it works but the satellite occasionally does something that either fries these cards or renders them inoperable Satellite piracy has an entire subculture on the internet. There are literally dozens of sites with info. Just use a search engine on the subject… ---
**Author:** ![JRootabega](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e7dd6/32.png) [@JRootabega](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRootabega)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satellite-tv-piracy-detectable/143453/35 "2002-12-19T00:31:53Z")
:eek: You detected them!! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satellite-tv-piracy-detectable/143453/36 "2002-12-19T01:09:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SC\_Wolf \* > \*\*My parent used to pay for a service that was broadcast \*\* Did they buy or rent a device that went between the antenna and the TV? ---
**Author:** ![jacksen9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@jacksen9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacksen9)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satellite-tv-piracy-detectable/143453/37 "2002-12-19T02:24:01Z")
**Wait, jacksen9, you mean the show was actually being broadcast? An actual unlicensed broadcast, receivable by anyone with a regular TV?** Yep. It went on for about 6 months. Every Saturday night or I should say Sunday morning it was on. Seems like it was on for more than an hour. I can’t remember. This old guy with a dirty t-shirt would actually be on the air with several others. Some of them were regulars. It was live. It came on the channel that was normally used for the tv guide. I don’t know if anyone other than Phonoscope customers got the bootleg show. Phonoscope was a small cable company in Houston. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satellite-tv-piracy-detectable/143453/38 "2002-12-19T02:48:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jacksen9 \* > \*\* It came on the channel that was normally used for the tv guide. > \*\* That’s a cable channel, not a broadcast channel over the airwaves. ---
**Author:** ![jacksen9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@jacksen9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacksen9)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satellite-tv-piracy-detectable/143453/39 "2002-12-19T02:53:56Z")
Right. But it was not an authorized show. ---
**Author:** ![crawford](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cab0a1/32.png) [@crawford](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crawford)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satellite-tv-piracy-detectable/143453/40 "2002-12-19T03:28:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by drachillix \* > **My personal favorite: > Free offers… A commercial adverising a cheap or free giveaway item “first 1000 to call get this cool beer can holder with rusty wallace on it!” Compare orders to subscriber database.** I’ve heard this one a few times before, but have wondered whether it is true. Anyone have a cite? A brief search at [snopes.com](http://snopes.com) revealed little. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satellite-tv-piracy-detectable/143453.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/satellite-tv-piracy-detectable/143453.md?page=3)