# Saudi Arabia or North Korea: where would you rather live? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 3, 2010, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabia-or-north-korea-where-would-you-rather-live/545378 "2010-07-03T01:41:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Green\_Rosetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Green\_Rosetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Rosetta)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabia-or-north-korea-where-would-you-rather-live/545378/81 "2010-07-06T01:28:01Z")
If I were rich and didn’t have to worry about the famines, then NK, hands down. Problem is, that’s why it sucks so bad, and the famines and starving and poverty are what makes it North Korea. If my choices were to live as a rich Saudi or a normal NKorean, then I’d be a fool not to pick Saudi Arabia. If I had a guaranteed male escort, then I think I could make Saudi Arabia work- at least there’d be enough food, and some kind of entertainment. And for what it’s worth, I’m currently trying to find a way to plan a trip to NK because I’m so fascinated by it. I don’t think I’d ever spend my own hard earned money going to Saudi Arabia, though (though I would spend it in another Middle Eastern country that isn’t as oppressive.) ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabia-or-north-korea-where-would-you-rather-live/545378/82 "2010-07-06T01:55:41Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > Do you think I could get a job teaching English in Saudi Arabia? Send me a PM, perhaps, depending on your background. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabia-or-north-korea-where-would-you-rather-live/545378/83 "2010-07-06T02:11:41Z")
> [@mutantmoose](#): > > Saudi: God says thieves should have their right hand cut off > > Me: Seems a harsh punishment for such a minor crime. What about rehabilitation of offenders? Lots of thieves turn their lives around after a spell in jail and stop thieving. If you chop their hand off you make it difficult for them to get a proper job in future and make it more likely they will have to continue thieving. Also what if you got the wrong man and chopped the hand off someone who was innocent? > > Saudi: God says thieves should have their right hand cut off > > Me: Oh ok. When’s the next flight to Pyongyang? I was watching a fascinating BBC documentary on TV in Malaysia a few weeks ago, and it was about life in Saudi Arabia. They had an interview with the Saudi Attorney-General (or their equivalent thereof) and he was asked about the whole “Chopping off people’s hands for theft” thing, and he provided a very patient answer explaining that, despite what people in The West may think, they don’t chop thieves’ hands off for a first offence, or a second one, or even a third one- it’s a drastic step taken for incorrigible re-offenders who’ve been given countless chances to mend their ways, and by the time they’re chopping a repeat offender’s hand off, it’s really _pour l’encouragement des l’autres_ anyway. Obviously, what with Saudi Arabia being a big place, there’s going to be some discrepancy between what the Attorney-General says and what actually happens in remote or rural areas, but even so, the point is that stealing something in Saudi Arabia will not automatically mean your friends will have to nickname you “Lefty” in the near future. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabia-or-north-korea-where-would-you-rather-live/545378/84 "2010-07-06T17:49:52Z")
Count me as another female who won’t go near SA. Just the IDEA of being a second-class citizen because I have an X chromosome makes me ill. I can make my way in NK, I’m sure, but at least I won’t get arrested for not keep myself covered at all times. ---
**Author:** ![davekhps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@davekhps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davekhps)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabia-or-north-korea-where-would-you-rather-live/545378/85 "2010-07-06T17:59:43Z")
I don’t _personally_ know how bad Saudi Arabia is, but in no way is it worse than North Korea. Perhaps it’s too strong of an opinion for this thread, but to argue otherwise is the height of lunacy. North Korea is a starving graveyard. Literally. And to my fellow atheists on the board who fear Islamic theocracy so much as to willingly choose the worst place on Earth, I say this: [you’ve never heard of Juche](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juche). Don’t have to believe in God? Big whup-- you have to believe in godless communism. Practically, there is _zero difference_ between the most radical Islamic theocracy and North Korean leader-worship. Actually, that’s not true-- at least Islam has an afterlife to look forward to. And you can _leave_ Saudi Arabia. All the poor North Koreans have to look forward to is death. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabia-or-north-korea-where-would-you-rather-live/545378/86 "2010-07-06T18:56:38Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Send me a PM, perhaps, depending on your background. I mean, hypothetically. I guess by your response, the answer is yes. Okay. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabia-or-north-korea-where-would-you-rather-live/545378/87 "2010-07-06T20:20:35Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Anyone voting NK is taking the piss (unless they’re Jewish). > > There are a million and one things wrong with Saudi Arabia, which has shocking values and laws, particularly with regards to women’s rights, but seriously - c’mon. I suspect most votes against SA are either ideological or due to knowing next-to-nothing about the two places. I’m Jewish, and I’d choose SA. I think people are underestimating how screwed up North Korea is. BTW, I bet there are more closet atheists in SA than closet non-Juchists (?) in NK. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabia-or-north-korea-where-would-you-rather-live/545378/88 "2010-07-06T20:21:52Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I don’t trust loonocracies, either, but at least just about everyone will agree that Kim is batshit crazy…as long as they’re sure they won’t be overheard or reported. I seriously doubt that. ---
**Author:** ![anu-la1979](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabia-or-north-korea-where-would-you-rather-live/545378/89 "2010-07-06T20:27:43Z")
Zero question about this. Saudi Arabia. Because I’d have enough options for professional opportunities that I’d be able to buy myself a ticket the hell out. Wearing a tent and keeping the Hindu-ness on the downlow in the meantime would suck, but I’ve known Indians who’ve managed to eke out a life there (although the women were usually bored as hell). I still see NK as a place people try to shoot you if you try to leave. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabia-or-north-korea-where-would-you-rather-live/545378/90 "2010-07-06T20:39:06Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Black absorbs heat and and a great deal of heat is dissipated through the head. Wearing a black garment that covers the head does not cool a person off, it absorbs and retains heat. Not necessarily. [The Master speaks](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1886/does-black-clothing-keep-you-cooler). ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabia-or-north-korea-where-would-you-rather-live/545378/91 "2010-07-06T21:01:14Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Count me as another female who won’t go near SA. Just the IDEA of being a second-class citizen because I have an X chromosome makes me ill. I can make my way in NK, I’m sure, but at least I won’t get arrested for not keep myself covered at all times. Yeah, women are second-class citizens in Saudi Arabia. You know who are second class citizens in North Korea? Everybody. You guys remember that Star Trek episode where a planet based their whole culture on a book about the gangs of 1920s Chicago? Well, North Korea is exactly like that, except the book they based their society on was “1984”. Here’s one thing to consider. Every building in North Korea is required to have a radio, and there’s only one channel, the propaganda channel. And it’s a crime to turn the radio off, or turn down the volume. As in, a “they drag you out and shoot you” crime. ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabia-or-north-korea-where-would-you-rather-live/545378/92 "2010-07-06T22:11:33Z")
If I had to choose one it be Saudi Arabia only because Anthony Bordain hasn’t done an episode on North Korean cuisine yet. But from what I heard NK is pretty hard up for food there isn’t even small mamals running/flying about they’ve eaten them all. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabia-or-north-korea-where-would-you-rather-live/545378/93 "2010-07-07T08:39:20Z")
SA in a heartbeat. Women aren’t going to be any freer in NK than they are in SA. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > ``` > Count me as another female who won't go near SA. Just the IDEA of being a second-class citizen because I have an X chromosome makes me ill. I can make my way in NK, I'm sure, but at least I won't get arrested for not keep myself covered at all times. > > ``` Right. You’d just arbitrarily get sent to a concentration camp, be classed as a “chaotic element”, have your whole family imprisoned, or be a guinea pig for chemical weapons research in NK, all on the whim of a party official. NK is arguably the most dystopian society that’s ever existed. SA is not even in the same league as NK. Even by communist standards, NK is pretty bad. [I mean](http://www.fas.org/irp/world/rok/nis-docs/hwang5.htm), North Korea, as a society, is literally insane: > [@](#): > > Concentration camps for persons of very short stature were set up in Jungpyung, in South Hamkyung province, after express orders from Kim Il-sung to isolate them to “prevent dwarves from multiplying.” I also think some people are underestimating how conservative NK society is, too. You aren’t going to be walking down a street in NK in hotpants any more than you’d do the same in SA. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabia-or-north-korea-where-would-you-rather-live/545378/94 "2010-07-07T10:39:32Z")
> [@davekhps](#): > > North Korea is a starving graveyard. Literally. Life expectancy is 64.13 years according to the CIA factbook. That’s pretty crap, but comparable to a number of other poor Asian countries such as Pakistan, Nepal and Yemen. Life in NK _would_ suck donkey bollocks, certainly, but lets not go overboard here. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabia-or-north-korea-where-would-you-rather-live/545378/95 "2010-07-07T12:16:01Z")
I know a number of woman who’ve actually lived and worked in SA and it wins hands down for me. Now these are professional women - engineers and physicians - working at western companies, and while things are restrictive (I don’t think anyone is debating that) it’s not nearly as loony as some of the posts in this thread suggest. FWIW, none of the women in question had a male companion/husband with her when she was working and apparently it’s not an issue. Some of them may have had a female housekeeper that did shopping and whatnot (although I’m not positive about this last bit). In fact, the only really unpleasant story I’ve heard is about a woman wearing the appropriate garments; however, with bare feet in sandals. Yah - the bare feet thing didn’t go over well; however, she had to stop and buy socks. She wasn’t thrown in jail or beaten with sticks or stoned. So, SA, all the way, baby. NK is just scary. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabia-or-north-korea-where-would-you-rather-live/545378/96 "2010-07-07T13:07:04Z")
I am a Hindu woman, so no Saudi Arabia for me. I’m sure I wouldn’t be one of the priviledged few. I’d rather go to SK, I can keep my mouth shut and be a cog in the wheel. I know, SK is bad, too. Really bad. But I’ve seen enough of second-hand treatment of women to last a lifetime. ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabia-or-north-korea-where-would-you-rather-live/545378/97 "2010-07-07T14:56:40Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I’d rather go to SK, I can keep my mouth shut and be a cog in the wheel. > > I know, SK is bad, too. Really bad. But I’ve seen enough of second-hand treatment of women to last a lifetime. I’m sure we’d _all_ rather go to South Korea, and from what I hear, it’s a very nice place. But I don’t think that’s an option. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Gymnopithys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabia-or-north-korea-where-would-you-rather-live/545378/98 "2010-07-07T15:17:27Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I’d choose North Korea ‘cause I like lil’ women with [del]straight[/del] visible hair. Right. But in this case should I specify _head hair_ ? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BetsQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@BetsQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BetsQ)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabia-or-north-korea-where-would-you-rather-live/545378/99 "2010-07-07T15:21:19Z")
I once spent 8 days in Riyadh. I’m leaning towards NK on this one, although, to be honest, I know very little about NK. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabia-or-north-korea-where-would-you-rather-live/545378/100 "2010-07-07T16:19:35Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > ISTM that the number one worst thing about North Korea would be material deprivation - which, by the terms of the OP, you don’t need to worry about. Apart from that and not being able to criticise the Glorious Leader, what else have you got? As far as I know, as a foreigner, in NK you won’t be able to talk to the “locals” at all. Not even if you’re a man. You won’t have any communications with your family abroad. I’ll give up alcohol and pork for 10 years and pretend to be a Christian. Take me to Saudi Arabia. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabia-or-north-korea-where-would-you-rather-live/545378.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabia-or-north-korea-where-would-you-rather-live/545378.md?page=6)