Saudi Arabia or North Korea: where would you rather live?

In My Humble Opinion
21

I picked Saudi Arabia, just because, despite the censoring and firewall, at least I’d have some contact with the outside world. Honestly, the idea of being as isolated as North Koreans are is even scarier to me than the idea of having little to no rights. Plus, I could expect to be able to leave Saudi Arabia on vacation or something.

I think technically I’m not supposed to be allowed into Saudi Arabia at all because I have been to Israel, but I don’t have any Israeli stamps on my current passport, so I don’t think anyone would know.

22

I take it that the wikipedia article on the subject is wildly inaccurate then?

I’m only half way through that article too, but I think that’s about enough.

North Korea here I come.

23

Dude, I just asked you for some facts. Don’t just slam me, educate me. Fight the ignorance here. I’ve spent the best years of my life living in a Muslim area and intend to return, so it’s not like I’m some knee-jerk anti-Islam person. But everything I read about Saudi Arabia indicates that it’s a very restrictive place for women. You obviously feel passionately about this, so share what you know with the rest of us. What is daily life for a single female not in an ex-pat compound like? What, if any, restrictions would she face?

Here is the Wikipedia page: Women's rights in Saudi Arabia - Wikipedia

How much of that is true and what impact would that have on a single woman’s life? These all seem like huge problems for me. Is Wikipedia lying, or is it just not as bad as it sounds on paper, or what?

Remember, I personally would be in Saudi Arabia without a male relative. Everything I read indicates that I would not even be allowed to grab a cup of coffee at Starbucks. I can’t drive, but I can’t go out with just a driver. How does it work?

24

Ha! Got beat to it!

25

Oh, and there’s one more specially for sven

I think under the rules of the game, since we’re apparently being provided with the necessities of life, and a male guardian is a legal requirement, women choosing Saudi would have to be able to bring their husbands if applicable, dads if not.

thinks for two seconds

nope, still North Korea.

26

I’m not entirely sure why, but I find this post to be subtly awesome. If ya ever do decide to move and need a male guardian… :smiley:

27

The only reason I’d pick Saudi Arabia is because I can’t tolerate cold.

28

As I said that I am no fan of S Arabia. But unlike Kyla and you and probably most people on this board I actually lived there for nearly two years. And enjoyed every moment of it. My father was gone most of the time, he was in the army (posted as an instructor) and thus it was just me and my mother and and we did not live in an expat compound and we went shopping, went to parks (though not a good idea in the middle of summer), went on a bus, in Jeddah went to the beach, and all sans a “mehram”, I did not count, I was about 8.

I am amazed at the vicereal hatred of Saudis on this board, if you said this about any other country you would get a warning, but seems kosher for S Arabia.

29

I think that all those rules wouldn’t apply to a white western non-muslim woman. At least I remember watching a TV programme where one of those travelled through Saudi (Kate Humble) and she was surprised that she could just wear normal clothes and do what she wanted without any hassle.

30

I think I’ll go with North Korea. What you’ve never had or seen, you cannot miss. In Saudi Arabia you’d get glimpses of an “outside world”, but you’d never be a part of it.

Sorry, I rushed the OP. If I’ve not been born there, I’ll go with SA as the lesser of 2 shitholes.

31

Saudi Arabia, hands down.

Saudi has an economy. I can make money there. I can travel to most other countries. People from most every country in the World can come here. I can own a car here. Except for pork, I can eat meat here everyday. If I have the money, I can eat all the food I care to. I can use the internet freely in Saudi, go to the beach and swim (in NK, the beaches are fenced off to keep the people in and the “invaders out”.) I can go shopping, everything that one can do in Saudi that cannot be dreamed about in North Korea. If I am a Saudi citizen, I am not “poor”. Foreigners from India, southeast Asia and elsewhere do the menial shit labor and construction.

The only tiny thing that North Korea has over Saudi Arabia is that alcohol is legal in North Korea (how much, I have no idea.). Of course, like in Saudi, there are no bars in North Korea for the common person. Probably not much of a nightlife in either place, although in Saudi, I can eat delicious middle eastern foods, while in NK, I’d be lucky to get some boiled cabbage and three day old rice.

Secondly, the rights of women are the same as men in North Korea. Neither have basic human rights in North Korea, but the woman is not chattel to the man, at least not as much as she would be in Saudi. Korea is a very male dominant society, and since NK hasn’t changed since the 1940’s, the “man as boss” and “woman as cook, cleaner and sexual partner” is probably dominant. At least in Saudi, the woman can go shopping and buy enough food to take care of her children and her husband. An average North Korean has no electricity, has no money, lives off government rations, works an awful menail job she cannot quit.

I would think that Saudi and NK are about the same in “social devices”. Probably almost no prostitution or gambling. Very strict laws about doing drugs. In Saudi, things like KTV’s and strip bars are probably unheard of, as they would be in North Korea. Pornography of any kind is very restricted. I would think in North Korea that being homosexual would be seen as “counter revolutionary” whereas in Saudi it could be met with the death penalty.

If you hate religion and want no places of worship to be seen or heard, North Korea is the place for you. I, however feel that religion and culture are very interconnected. In Saudi, the only official religion is Islam, and their particular sect of the faith. No other church is allowed in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The Iranian government doesn’t even go that far.

For me as a male, it would be a pain in the ass if I was home in my cool air conditioning when my sister tells me I have to go with her to the store because she is not allowed to travel on her own. The women there really need to fight for their rights.

I would much rather be a Saudi citizen, even a woman citizen, over being any kind of citizen in NK. The only person in NK I would want to be is that son of the Dear Leader so one day I could free my people fro, their tyranny.

32

North Korea. As long as I have beer, cigarettes, some place to sit, and somebody to converse with then I can get by just fine.

Thank God the OP didn’t include Liberia. I don’t think I would accept any amount of money to more there for any amount of time. That Vice video made North Korea look like Club Med.

33

Not true. There are bars and restaurants in North Korea that cater to the everyday citizen, there is alcohol available in many stores. I saw it with my own eyes.

There is something approaching a nightlife. There are large karaoke parlors, bowling alleys, and discos that sit totally empty most of the time but are opened if even one foreigner shows his face nearby.

34

WRT North Korea ask Joe Dresnek. I think booze would pick NK for me. :slight_smile:

35

deleted

36

What the hell are you talking about?

No one is expressing any kind of “visceral hatred” for Saudis in this thread. As for the country of Saudi Arabia, however, expressing concerns about women’s rights and freedom in general is perfectly valid and a major concern.

Equating valid women’s rights concerns with discrimination/hatred is disingenuous, and calls into question your motives.

37

I don’t hate Saudis. I’m trying to think if I’ve ever actually met a Saudi, and tbh I can’t think of any. But I’m pretty sure I don’t hate them, and I don’t appreciate you insinuating that I do.

But I can’t say I’d be super thrilled to live in a place where, as a woman, I’d be considered to have significantly fewer rights and opportunities than men.

38

Saudi Arabia. I suspect I would see fewer miserable people than in North Korea.

39

Anyone voting NK is taking the piss (unless they’re Jewish).

There are a million and one things wrong with Saudi Arabia, which has shocking values and laws, particularly with regards to women’s rights, but seriously - c’mon. I suspect most votes against SA are either ideological or due to knowing next-to-nothing about the two places.

40

ISTM that the number one worst thing about North Korea would be material deprivation - which, by the terms of the OP, you don’t need to worry about. Apart from that and not being able to criticise the Glorious Leader, what else have you got?