# Saudi Arabian National Team Refuses to Participate i Moment of Silence for Manchestet Victims **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 8, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabian-national-team-refuses-to-participate-i-moment-of-silence-for-manchestet-victims/788445 "2017-06-08T18:22:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2017, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabian-national-team-refuses-to-participate-i-moment-of-silence-for-manchestet-victims/788445/61 "2017-06-09T04:53:31Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > In **madsircool** ’s defense, I think what he meant is that he wished they knew what it felt like to lose a loved one. Not that it would actually happen. Yes…you said it so better than I. The parents of the lost girls might have been watching. What would it have cost those players to line up with the Aussie players? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2017, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabian-national-team-refuses-to-participate-i-moment-of-silence-for-manchestet-victims/788445/62 "2017-06-09T16:11:14Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Only you my trollish friend. [Moderating] Don’t wish violence on other posters. No warning issued. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabian-national-team-refuses-to-participate-i-moment-of-silence-for-manchestet-victims/788445/63 "2017-06-09T16:19:14Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > In **madsircool** ’s defense, I think what he meant is that he wished they knew what it felt like to lose a loved one. Not that it would actually happen. > [@madsircool](#): > > Yes…you said it so better than I. The parents of the lost girls might have been watching. What would it have cost those players to line up with the Aussie players? I’ll come to your defense little bit as well, as I read it more ironically. That is, with an emphasis on the idea that the daughters wouldn’t be allowed to attend that type of concert in the first place, so wishing death on them would be useless. Had you just said you wished death on their wives and daughters, that would be in keeping with the lashing you’ve gotten here. Still, if you’re going to wish death on innocent people, even ironically, it’s wise to be especially clear about your intent. But, you really need to stop digging on this issue, overall. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2017, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabian-national-team-refuses-to-participate-i-moment-of-silence-for-manchestet-victims/788445/64 "2017-06-09T23:27:57Z")
[Non-fake update news story here](https://www.yahoo.com/news/minutes-silence-causes-controversy-australia-150022561.html). ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabian-national-team-refuses-to-participate-i-moment-of-silence-for-manchestet-victims/788445/65 "2017-06-10T00:28:42Z")
This one time, during the Pledge of Allegiance, I didn’t place my hand over my heart. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabian-national-team-refuses-to-participate-i-moment-of-silence-for-manchestet-victims/788445/66 "2017-06-10T00:39:53Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > [Non-fake update news story here](https://www.yahoo.com/news/minutes-silence-causes-controversy-australia-150022561.html). > [@](#): > > “The whole world, the whole free world is united in condemnation of that terrorist attack and terrorism generally,” Turnbull said, without directly referencing the match. Emphasis added. I certainly wouldn’t include Saudi Arabia in that set of countries. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabian-national-team-refuses-to-participate-i-moment-of-silence-for-manchestet-victims/788445/67 "2017-06-10T00:46:51Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Yes…you said it so better than I. All of us are saying things better than you. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabian-national-team-refuses-to-participate-i-moment-of-silence-for-manchestet-victims/788445/68 "2017-06-10T01:53:44Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > All of us are saying things better than you. Even DudeRobert? ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabian-national-team-refuses-to-participate-i-moment-of-silence-for-manchestet-victims/788445/69 "2017-06-10T02:06:59Z")
Here are a couple more articles discussing why the Saudi players didn’t observe the moment’s silence. As **Ramira** pointed out, it appears to be a peculiarity related to Wahhabism, and its puritanical rejection of ancestor worship. [Adelaide Now](http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/football/why-saudi-arabias-football-team-didnt-observe-a-minutes-silence-for-london-attack-victims/news-story/3ade0773ce6f730bbd301150f064fd3b) [Vice Sports](https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/why-saudi-arabias-soccer-team-didnt-observe-moment-of-silence-for-london) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabian-national-team-refuses-to-participate-i-moment-of-silence-for-manchestet-victims/788445/70 "2017-06-10T03:55:25Z")
Better link to that first one: [http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/football/why-saudi-arabias-football-team-didnt-observe-a-minutes-silence-for-london-attack-victims/news-story/3ade0773ce6f730bbd301150f064fd3b](http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/football/why-saudi-arabias-football-team-didnt-observe-a-minutes-silence-for-london-attack-victims/news-story/3ade0773ce6f730bbd301150f064fd3b) Your link had some ad URL in it that my tablet wouldn’t let me visit. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabian-national-team-refuses-to-participate-i-moment-of-silence-for-manchestet-victims/788445/71 "2017-06-10T04:38:56Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > I disagree. It means something to the families and the larger community. Plus, its simply good manners to wish sympathy to someone who is grieving. Offer. You’re supposed to offer sympathy to someone who is grieving. But I suspect that you know what “sympathy” means in this context about as well as you know how to spell hyperbole. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabian-national-team-refuses-to-participate-i-moment-of-silence-for-manchestet-victims/788445/72 "2017-06-10T04:50:54Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/saudi-arabia-players-fail-line-10584951](http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/saudi-arabia-players-fail-line-10584951) > > Whats there to say? These are the vilest people alive today. Id wish the same tragedy would happen to their sisters and daughters but they arent allowed to go to concerts. Did anyone else notice the moment of silence was for the victims of the _London_ attack, and not the one in Manchester? Title fail. Although the Saudi footie players are assholes, no matter who the remembrance was for. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2017, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabian-national-team-refuses-to-participate-i-moment-of-silence-for-manchestet-victims/788445/73 "2017-06-10T06:40:04Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Better link to that first one: [http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/football/why-saudi-arabias-football-team-didnt-observe-a-minutes-silence-for-london-attack-victims/news-story/3ade0773ce6f730bbd301150f064fd3b](http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/football/why-saudi-arabias-football-team-didnt-observe-a-minutes-silence-for-london-attack-victims/news-story/3ade0773ce6f730bbd301150f064fd3b) > > Your link had some ad URL in it that my tablet wouldn’t let me visit. Dr Roose is speculating with zero evidence. Just wants to see his name in the papers. The Saudis were asked to observe a minute of silence. Which they infact did, the players were in position rather than at the Centerline. This “offended” some people so the Saudi FA apologized for “offence caused” a typical PR non apology. Honestly it’s a non issue. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabian-national-team-refuses-to-participate-i-moment-of-silence-for-manchestet-victims/788445/74 "2017-06-11T15:33:46Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > [http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/saudi-arabia-players-fail-line-10584951](http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/saudi-arabia-players-fail-line-10584951) > > Whats there to say? These are the vilest people alive today. Id wish the same tragedy would happen to their sisters and daughters but they arent allowed to go to concerts. The Saudis just recently admitted that they have been supporting and financing terrorism for DECADES. > **[A Terror Breeding Ground?](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/a-terror-breeding-ground/)** > > Saudis Try To Change Reputation As Haven For Terrorists > [@](#): > > Ironically, it was the Saudi government itself that encouraged thousands of Saudis in the '80s to go to Afghanistan to fight the Russians. > > “We Saudis ought to admit that was one of the biggest mistakes we participated in,” says Suleiman Al-Hatlan, who writes an influential newspaper column in Saudi Arabia. > > He says today’s terrorism is a consequence of past government policy: “We sent young Saudis to be received by people like bin Laden and be brainwashed in Afghanistan. And finally, we are paying a heavy price. They are back to fight inside the country, inside Saudi Arabia.” … Saudi law states that education should “instill the Islamic faith,” and that the role of the state is to “protect Islam.” The state pays clerics to teach a form of Islam called Wahhabism which many critics say is puritanical, intolerant, and breeds extremism. > > How widespread is Islamic fundamentalism and militant Islamic extremism in Saudi Arabia? > > “Since May 12, we discovered that extremism has unfortunately become a part of our everyday practice,” says Al-Hatlan. “In schools, in mosques, almost everywhere you go to in Saudi Arabia.” > > Is Wahhabism breeding these extremists? > > “I think Wahhabism participates in producing these extremists. Yes, I do believe,” says Al-Hatlan. … “In their view, today’s world is corrupt and has no morality,” says al-Nogaidan. “As servants of God, they believe it is our duty as Muslims to change this world using any means possible. Even if that means killing children, shedding blood, or engaging in all kinds of barbarity to achieve that goal.” … > **[It's Time to Stop the Saudis](https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a45149/kosovo-extremist-islam-saudi-arabia/)** > > When will we admit that many of our Gulf "allies" are spreading violent extremism worldwide? > [@](#): > > Absent western intervention, Kosovo wouldn’t exist today. That doesn’t matter to the purveyors of hate and death. If someone can tell me what benefits—besides cheap oil and the feeling that it can always get worse—the world gains from the continued existence of the governments in the Gulf states, I’d be keen to know. > Any influence over them that might come from us arming these governments is clearly nil. They are authoritarian theocracies, bribing murderers to kill people all around the world so they won’t kill anyone back home. These countries are a blight, and their rulers, largely plutocratic criminals [https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/22/world/europe/how-the-saudis-turned-kosovo-into-fertile-ground-for-isis.html?\_r=1](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/22/world/europe/how-the-saudis-turned-kosovo-into-fertile-ground-for-isis.html?_r=1) > [@](#): > > The mosque is one of scores built here with Saudi government money and blamed for spreading Wahhabism — the conservative ideology dominant in Saudi Arabia — in the 17 years since an American-led intervention wrested tiny Kosovo from Serbian oppression. > > Since then — much of that time under the watch of American officials — Saudi money and influence have transformed this once-tolerant Muslim society at the hem of Europe into a font of Islamic extremism and a pipeline for jihadists. … They were radicalized and recruited, Kosovo investigators say, by a corps of extremist clerics and secretive associations funded by Saudi Arabia and other conservative Arab gulf states using an obscure, labyrinthine network of donations from charities, private individuals and government ministries. > > “They promoted political Islam,” said Fatos Makolli, the director of Kosovo’s counterterrorism police. “They spent a lot of money to promote it through different programs mainly with young, vulnerable people, and they brought in a lot of Wahhabi and Salafi literature. They brought these people closer to radical political Islam, which resulted in their radicalization.” … > **[Saudi Arabia funds and exports Islamic extremism: The truth behind the toxic...](https://www.salon.com/2016/01/06/saudi_arabia_funds_and_exports_islamic_extremism_the_truth_behind_the_toxic_u_s_relationship_with_the_theocratic_nation/)** > > The little-told history of the U.S.-Saudi "special relationship" is a story of blood, oil & violent fundamentalism > [@](#): > > Saudi Arabia is the world’s leading sponsor of Islamic extremism. It is also a close U.S. ally. This contradiction, although responsible for a lot of human suffering, is frequently ignored. Yet it recently plunged back into the limelight with the Saudi monarchy’s largest mass execution in decades. > > On Jan. 2, Saudi Arabia beheaded 47 people across 13 cities. Among the executed was cleric Nimr al-Nimr, a leader from the country’s Shia religious minority who was arrested for leading peaceful protests against the regime in 2011-12. … The internal repression and human rights abuses inside Saudi Arabia is one thing. Perhaps even more troubling, however, is the monarchy’s support for violent religious extremism. … Saudi Arabia is a theocratic absolute monarchy that governs based on an extreme interpretation of Sharia (Islamic law). It is so extreme, it has been widely compared to ISIS. Algerian journalist Kamel Daoud characterized Saudi Arabia in an op-ed in The New York Times as “an ISIS that has made it.” > > “Black Daesh, white Daesh,” Daoud wrote, using the Arabic acronym for ISIS. “The former slits throats, kills, stones, cuts off hands, destroys humanity’s common heritage and despises archaeology, women and non-Muslims. The latter is better dressed and neater but does the same things. The Islamic State; Saudi Arabia.” … In a TV interview, al-Hamad insisted the religious extremism propagated by the Saudi monarchy “serves as fuel for ISIS.” “You can see [in ISIS videos] the volunteers in Syria ripping up their Saudi passports,” al-Hamad said. > > “In order to stop ISIS, you must first dry up this ideology at the source. , In the wake of the November 2015 Paris attacks, scholar Yousaf Butt stressed that “the fountainhead of Islamic extremism that promotes and legitimizes such violence lies with the fanatical ‘Wahhabi’ strain of Islam centered in Saudi Arabia.” … In the past few decades, the Saudi regime has spent an estimated $100 billion exporting its extremist interpretation of Islam worldwide. It infuses its fundamentalist ideology in the ostensible charity work it performs, often targeting poor Muslim communities in countries like Pakistan or places like refugee camps, where uneducated, indigent, oppressed people are more susceptible to it. … What is not contested, on the other hand, is that Saudi elites in the business community and even segments of the royal family support extremist groups like al-Qaida. U.S. government cables leaked by WikiLeaks admit “donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide.” > > “It has been an ongoing challenge to persuade Saudi officials to treat terrorist financing emanating from Saudi Arabia as a strategic priority,” wrote former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in a leaked 2009 cable. … Of the 19 Sept. 11 attackers, 15 were citizens of Saudi Arabia. Zacarias Moussaoui, a convicted 9/11 plotter, confessed in sworn testimony to U.S. authorities that members of the Saudi royal family funded al-Qaeda before the attacks. The Saudi government strongly denies this. … Whatever its role, what is clear is that Saudi Arabia’s support for violent extremist groups is well documented. Such support continues to this very day. In Syria, the Saudi monarchy has backed al-Nusra, al-Qaeda’s Syrian affiliate. The U.S. government has bombed al-Nusra, but its ally Saudi Arabia is funding it. … [http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/saudi-arabia-terrorism-funding-214241](http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/saudi-arabia-terrorism-funding-214241) > [@](#): > > This time, in the course of meetings with King Salman, Crown Prince Nayef, Deputy Crown Mohammad Bin Salman and several ministers, one top Saudi official admitted to me, “We misled you.” He explained that Saudi support for Islamic extremism started in the early 1960s as a counter to Nasserism—the socialist political ideology that came out of the thinking of Egypt’s Gamal Abdel Nasser—which threatened Saudi Arabia and led to war between the two countries along the Yemen border. … But over time, the Saudis say, their support for extremism turned on them, metastasizing into a serious threat to the Kingdom and to the West. They had created a monster that had begun to devour them. “We did not own up to it after 9/11 because we feared you would abandon or treat us as the enemy,” the Saudi senior official conceded. “And we were in denial.” … There have been many reform programs announced before in Saudi Arabia, only to fade into insignificance. Also, modernization undermines two pillars of Saudi political legitimacy, the endorsement of the Wahhabi clerical establishment and the traditionalism that undergirds any monarchical government. … > **[FactCheck Q&A: Is Saudi Arabia funding ISIS?](https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-qa-is-saudi-arabia-funding-isis)** > > The Wikileaks files suggest there have been western efforts to "bring pressure" on Saudi Arabia to end its support for ISIS. > [@](#): > > Perhaps the most powerful indication of Saudi’s financial links with ISIS can be seen in the cache of emails leaked from the office of Hillary Clinton, who was US Secretary of State from 2009 to 2013. > > The messages, published by Wikileaks, contain an unambiguous statement by her campaign chairman, John Podesta: > > “We need to use our diplomatic and more traditional intelligence assets to bring pressure on the governments of Qatar and Saudi Arabia, which are providing clandestine financial and logistic support to ISIL and other radical Sunni groups in the region.” > > This wasn’t the first time US officials had made this claim. … “Donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide,” the documents said. “While the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (KSA) takes seriously the threat of terrorism within Saudi Arabia, it has been an ongoing challenge to persuade Saudi officials to treat terrorist financing emanating from Saudi Arabia as a strategic priority … “hundreds of millions of dollars and tens of tons of weapons into anyone who would fight against Assad.” He explained: “The people who were being supplied were al-Nusra, and al-Qaeda, and the extremist elements of jihadis who were coming from other parts of the world … > > “We declared [ISIS] a terrorist group early on. And we could not convince our colleagues to stop supplying them.” … It added: “It would not be surprising to learn of limited, perhaps indirect contact, logistical coordination to further Sunni positions in Syria and beyond, or leaking of funds and materiel from Saudi-supported rebels to ISIS.” > > “Arab Gulf donors as a whole – of which Saudis are believed to be the most charitable – have funneled hundreds of millions of dollars to Syria in recent years, including to ISIS and other groups,” it said. “Riyadh could do much more to limit private funding.” ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabian-national-team-refuses-to-participate-i-moment-of-silence-for-manchestet-victims/788445/75 "2017-06-11T15:37:27Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > With election looming, perhaps someone thought a sharp dash of Muslim hate might be just the right touch. Not deep on British politics…is it the liberal/lefty faction there that exploits such sentiments? Or the other guys? Could be. This turned out to be a NON-story. But for politics, who cares about fact anyway 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabian-national-team-refuses-to-participate-i-moment-of-silence-for-manchestet-victims/788445/76 "2017-06-11T16:47:19Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > The Saudis just recently admitted that they have been supporting and financing terrorism for DECADES. They did no such thing, this is tying past policy to the present problems. The connection with the Afghanistan is not the same. The guerilla warfare against the Soviets was not “terrorism” (or if it was then you Americans have been sponsoring terrorism for decades…). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-arabian-national-team-refuses-to-participate-i-moment-of-silence-for-manchestet-victims/788445.md?page=3)