# Saudi court upholds child rapist crucifixion ruling **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 3, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-court-upholds-child-rapist-crucifixion-ruling/516190 "2009-11-03T19:05:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-court-upholds-child-rapist-crucifixion-ruling/516190/1 "2009-11-03T19:05:19Z")
[Saudi court upholds child rapist crucifixion ruling](http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-43639120091103) > [@](#): > > A Saudi court of cassation upheld a ruling to behead and crucify a 22-year-old man convicted of raping five children and leaving one of them to die in the desert, newspapers reported on Tuesday. > > The convict was arrested earlier this year after a seven-year old boy helped police in their investigation. The child left in the desert after the rape was three years old, Okaz newspaper said. Barbaric. I should be absolutely horrified by such a punishment. But in this case I just can’t rouse up any indignation at all. If ever a person deserved such a fate … So here’s the question. If it were demonstrated that such Draconian punishments actually deterred these vermin and saved children’s lives, would you be for them? (OK, I’m positive it’s not a deterrent, but that’s not the question. If it _were_, would you support such punishments as infinitely the lesser of two evils?) ---
**Author:** ![pan1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e495f1/32.png) [@pan1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pan1)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-court-upholds-child-rapist-crucifixion-ruling/516190/2 "2009-11-03T19:15:44Z")
What makes you positive its not a deterrent? I’ve never had a problem with eye for an eye justice - as long as there was zero doubt regarding the guilt. Zero possibility of doubt is a bit tricky to accomplish in most cases. Deterrent, punishment, I’m not particular as to the whys regarding the sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-court-upholds-child-rapist-crucifixion-ruling/516190/3 "2009-11-03T19:23:02Z")
I am pretty much an absolutist when it comes to torture and cruel punishment. This punishment is barbaric and should be condemned as such no matter how horrific the crime. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-court-upholds-child-rapist-crucifixion-ruling/516190/4 "2009-11-03T19:34:04Z")
The guy will be beheaded first, so really the crucifixion is more about dishonoring his corpse and denying him a proper Muslim burial. Beheading is a standard death penalty procedure for the Saudis and if done properly is probably no more “horrific” to the one dying than death in an electric chair or via lethal injection. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-court-upholds-child-rapist-crucifixion-ruling/516190/5 "2009-11-03T19:41:35Z")
Okay, so the question is whether dishonoring a corpse and denying it a proper muslim burial is a legitimate sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-court-upholds-child-rapist-crucifixion-ruling/516190/6 "2009-11-03T19:58:42Z")
OK I missed the part about him being beheaded first. That changes things quite a lot. While beheading wouldn’t be my preferred method of execution I would imagine it’s generally painless. And while I don’t like the idea of mutilating corpses it’s a much lesser issue than inflicting severe pain on a living person. Of course the Saudis do deserve to be condemned for other punishments like lashing and stoning. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-court-upholds-child-rapist-crucifixion-ruling/516190/7 "2009-11-03T20:07:47Z")
Well, it deters the hell out of the person getting beheaded/crucified. And, I don’t have a problem with it. Convicted baby rapers should be killed. They’ve already dishonored themselves, so inflicting further indignities upon their corpses doesn’t bother me either. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-court-upholds-child-rapist-crucifixion-ruling/516190/8 "2009-11-03T20:08:34Z")
[QUOTE=aldiboronti;11735967 So here’s the question. If it were demonstrated that such Draconian punishments actually deterred these vermin and saved children’s lives, would you be for them? (OK, I’m positive it’s not a deterrent, but that’s not the question. If it _were_, would you support such punishments as infinitely the lesser of two evils?)[/QUOTE] I agree there is no evidence that the death penalty deters murderers. Even if there were such evidence, I’d need to know if there were other ways to deter such crimes. I also would want to know how many innocent people were going to be wrongly killed. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-court-upholds-child-rapist-crucifixion-ruling/516190/9 "2009-11-03T20:10:20Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Okay, so the question is whether dishonoring a corpse and denying it a proper muslim burial is a legitimate sentence. I have zero problem with using someone’s beliefs as to what happens to them in the afterlife due to how they are buried to “get” them to behave properly in THIS life. If Christians thought they would burn in hell for all eterenity if their corpse was smeared in jelly…bring on the fricking Smuckers as far as I am concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-court-upholds-child-rapist-crucifixion-ruling/516190/10 "2009-11-03T20:17:47Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > If Christians thought they would burn in hell for all eterenity if their corpse was smeared in jelly…bring on the fricking Smuckers as far as I am concerned. Then they’d HAVE to be good! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-court-upholds-child-rapist-crucifixion-ruling/516190/11 "2009-11-03T20:29:26Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > But in this case I just can’t rouse up any indignation at all. Hey, it’s only a beheading and crucifiction. What’s to be indignant about? > [@](#): > > If ever a person deserved such a fate … …we’d all have a Merry Christmas? > [@](#): > > So here’s the question. If it were demonstrated that such Draconian punishments actually deterred these vermin and saved children’s lives, would you be for them? No. As much as I want to protect children, I want to preserve my humanity as well. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-court-upholds-child-rapist-crucifixion-ruling/516190/12 "2009-11-03T20:36:00Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > While beheading wouldn’t be my preferred method of execution I would imagine it’s generally painless. Hard to know if it is painless. It may be, or maybe not. The people being beheaded are unable to communicate about the experience. IIRC there is some credible evidence that a beheaded person retains consciousness for at least a few seconds after being beheaded. Makes sense since there is still blood in the brain and oxygen to be had and the beheading is (or can be) quite quick. Supposedly some executioners would pull the head out of the basket and point it at the beheaded body so the beheaded person’s last image in life would be of their headless torso. Fun stuff… ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-court-upholds-child-rapist-crucifixion-ruling/516190/13 "2009-11-03T20:36:15Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I have zero problem with using someone’s beliefs as to what happens to them in the afterlife due to how they are buried to “get” them to behave properly in THIS life. > > If Christians thought they would burn in hell for all eterenity if their corpse was smeared in jelly…bring on the fricking Smuckers as far as I am concerned. This. Wrap the baby-raping bastard in pigskin before he’s beheaded for all I care. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-court-upholds-child-rapist-crucifixion-ruling/516190/14 "2009-11-03T20:36:23Z")
Well, on the list of ways I think the Saudi’s need to reform their legal system, I doubt this makes the top ten, but no, I dislike the death penalty, and further desecration of the corpse after the fact just seems needlessly barbaric and medieval. So if they ever make me king over there, I’d get rid of the punishment (and then go to sleep on one of my beds made of petro-dollars). ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-court-upholds-child-rapist-crucifixion-ruling/516190/15 "2009-11-03T20:39:45Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > [Saudi court upholds child rapist crucifixion ruling](http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-43639120091103)So here’s the question. If it were demonstrated that such Draconian punishments actually deterred these vermin and saved children’s lives, would you be for them? I’m pro-death penalty; however, I support it because I believe the punishment should fit the crime. I won’t go into my reasoning, since it’s long and I’m not sure it’s relevant, but considering he is responsible for a death, I think the death penalty is approrpriate here. As such, I can appreciate a beheading, as I understand that while it may be somewhat gruesome, it is relatively human and effective at quickly killing the condemned. The part I don’t understand is the post-mortem crucifixion. He’s already dead. If they’re mutilating his body to deny him a proper Muslim burial, then they should also appreciate that, being dead, he will soon be facing the wrath of God for what he’s done regardless of whether he’s buried properly or not. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-court-upholds-child-rapist-crucifixion-ruling/516190/16 "2009-11-03T20:44:51Z")
Any person who has those urges is just going to move on to safer pastures, or be even more ruthless when it comes to leaving witnesses. Or both. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-court-upholds-child-rapist-crucifixion-ruling/516190/17 "2009-11-03T20:46:52Z")
"Good news, Achmed! We got your sentence reduced! No beheading!" Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-court-upholds-child-rapist-crucifixion-ruling/516190/18 "2009-11-03T20:49:03Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Any person who has those urges is just going to move on to safer pastures, or be even more ruthless when it comes to leaving witnesses. Or both. [Maybe the kid was just asking for it, hey, **ivan**?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11730921&postcount=42) ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-court-upholds-child-rapist-crucifixion-ruling/516190/19 "2009-11-03T21:06:49Z")
No. Because the question implies that the only way to deter child molesters is via torture, which isn’t something I agree with. However, if torture were the only way to deter them would I be in favor of it? I don’t know. I doubt it though, there’d have to be another way to cut these crimes. Like other said, this isn’t really torture. Crucifixion involves slowly suffocating someone while their wounds stay open. This guy was just tied to a post after being beheaded. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-court-upholds-child-rapist-crucifixion-ruling/516190/20 "2009-11-03T21:36:54Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Okay, so the question is whether dishonoring a corpse and denying it a proper muslim burial is a legitimate sentence. Dishonoring a corpse is a non-issue to me; it is an empty shell now. As for denying the perp a proper Muslim burial – well, presumably proper Muslims (i.e. the people who are entitled to proper Muslim burials) don’t commit such crimes. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-court-upholds-child-rapist-crucifixion-ruling/516190.md?page=2)