# Saudi judge seeks hospitals willing to injure man's spine in "eye for eye"-punishment. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 22, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076 "2010-08-22T16:09:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076/1 "2010-08-22T16:09:37Z")
From [here](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100819/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_saudi_justice): > [@](#): > > CAIRO – A Saudi judge has asked several hospitals in the country whether they could damage a man’s spinal cord as punishment after he was convicted of attacking another man with a cleaver and paralyzing him, the brother of the victim said Thursday. > The victim, aged 22, was left paralyzed and subsequently lost a foot after a fight more than two years ago. He asked a judge in northwestern Tabuk province to impose an equivalent punishment on his attacker under Islamic law. > ..One of the hospitals, located in Tabuk, responded that it is possible to damage the spinal cord, but it added that the operation would have to be done at another more specialized facility. Saudi newspapers reported that a second hospital in the capital Riyadh declined, saying it could not inflict such harm. Yes, of course this is barbaric, medieval, shouldn’t happen, etcetera. But on the other hand, it also feels kind of unjust that the attacker just spends 14 months in jail, while the victim stays paralysed for life. I gotta say, I don’t mind that much the custom of having to pay blood money in compensation. But If I were the victim and I felt a raging need for revenge, would I be better off with this kind of revenge or with a month of anger management therapy urging me softly to move on? ---
**Author:** ![pendgwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3da27b/32.png) [@pendgwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pendgwen)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076/2 "2010-08-22T16:30:55Z")
I don’t know what the medical ethics are like in Saudi Arabia but that’s a pretty big violation of “first, do no harm”. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076/3 "2010-08-22T18:07:19Z")
The penal system makes no sense. I’m guessing but I assume it’s based on Sharia law. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076/4 "2010-08-22T18:57:39Z")
IIRC the “First do no harm” is actually Greek in origin, and there is nothing in Saudi history that makes any claim they will follow a greek precept =) And personally, I have no problem with the punishment, Saudi Arabia wasn’t the US last I checked. What laws run in other countries are not my business [other than to make sure I don’t break them when I am there] Would you rather they chop off the guys head for paralizing the first guy? ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076/5 "2010-08-22T22:45:10Z")
It makes perfect sense… in a sense. Brutal, I will grant- and I don’t think that productive in this case. I would sentence this guy to be his victim’s indentured servant for life. Or sell him into servitude to someone else & have the victim collect the profits. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076/6 "2010-08-22T23:00:35Z")
To be fair, it looks like all of the Saudi doctors they’ve contacted so far also consider it barbaric. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076/7 "2010-08-22T23:37:50Z")
> [@pendgwen](#): > > I don’t know what the medical ethics are like in Saudi Arabia but that’s a pretty big violation of “first, do no harm”. “Thing is, Doc, there’s a criminal we’re set to execute; we often apply the death penalty for offenses like the one he committed, when (a) he can’t undo the damage the way a thief can return stolen money or whatever, and (b) we can’t inflict eye-for-an-eye justice. Anyhow, the prisoner has asked if you can paralyze him instead of having us kill him, and, well, if you’re up for that, I guess we’d prefer it too.” What should a physician do in that case? ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076/8 "2010-08-22T23:39:24Z")
Not give into blackmail. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076/9 "2010-08-23T00:44:19Z")
> [@pendgwen](#): > > I don’t know what the medical ethics are like in Saudi Arabia but that’s a pretty big violation of “first, do no harm”. > [@aruvqan](#): > > IIRC the “First do no harm” is actually Greek in origin, and there is nothing in Saudi history that makes any claim they will follow a greek precept =) “First, do no harm”, comes from Latin (_primum non nocere_), not Greek; it’s not part of the ancient or modern Hippocratic Oaths. It’s a maxim attributed to several different French and English physicians, and can be traced back no further than about 1650. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076/10 "2010-08-23T01:36:49Z")
As long as they can fix it later, if he turns out to be innocent. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076/11 "2010-08-23T01:39:10Z")
I always wondered what they do in Sharia law if someone is later proven to be innocent. Can’t put thier hand back on can ya. Or give 'em a new spine. Maybe Sharia law is infallible. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076/12 "2010-08-23T01:47:43Z")
Like the Pope? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076/13 "2010-08-23T02:05:36Z")
> [@River\_Hippie](#): > > As long as they can fix it later, if he turns out to be innocent. Well, strictly speaking, you can’t give back thirty years in prison, either. ---
**Author:** ![Kilmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@Kilmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilmore)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076/14 "2010-08-23T02:10:07Z")
Not only may this be considered barbaric, it’s socially retarded. They’re going to deliberately reduce a potentially useful member of society to a mouth and an anus. I would make the perpetrator be the victim’s hands and feet for at least 8 hours a day for the rest of his life. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076/15 "2010-08-23T02:51:25Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > It makes perfect sense… in a sense. Brutal, I will grant- and I don’t think that productive in this case. I would sentence this guy to be his victim’s indentured servant for life. Or sell him into servitude to someone else & have the victim collect the profits. Jesus was very much against eye-for-an-eye punishments. How can I, as Christian, advocate something that Jesus expressly forbade? As to be more practical, the eye-for-an-eye morality just starts a chain of violence. There’s no reason for the family of this guy to not try to hurt the family of the victim for causing their guy harm. And then it will just repeat. Okay, it may not happen in this case, but eventually someone will see it that way. There’s a reason why civilized countries have decided to have humane punishments. The alternative leads to violence. And that’s not even considering that it will bolster the idea here in America that Muslims are brutal savages. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076/16 "2010-08-23T02:58:29Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Okay, it may not happen in this case, but eventually someone will see it that way. There’s a reason why civilized countries have decided to have humane punishments. The alternative leads to violence. > > And that’s not even considering that it will bolster the idea here in America that Muslims are brutal savages. I’d be interested to see what tortured logic makes this an act of brutal savagery to a country which largely supports the death penalty. ETA: Not that plenty of brutal, savage things aren’t done in Saudi Arabia in the name of justice. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076/17 "2010-08-23T03:21:11Z")
I had to read this a couple of times: > [@](#): > > The victim, aged 22, was left paralyzed and subsequently lost a foot after a fight more than two years ago. I was wondering what kind of SOB would get into a fight with a paralyzed man and cut off his foot. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076/18 "2010-08-23T03:30:18Z")
Well, he was only paralyzed on the left… ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@Silver\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Fire)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076/19 "2010-08-23T04:12:08Z")
> [@Kilmore](#): > > Not only may this be considered barbaric, it’s socially retarded. They’re going to deliberately reduce a potentially useful member of society to a mouth and an anus. I would make the perpetrator be the victim’s hands and feet for at least 8 hours a day for the rest of his life. This. Medical ethics aside, I can’t see intentionally making somebody (I don’t want to say “useless” but I can’t come up with anything else; “a less productive member of society” maybe?) just for revenge. Where’s the benefit? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076/20 "2010-08-23T04:32:04Z")
> [@River\_Hippie](#): > > I always wondered what they do in Sharia law if someone is later proven to be innocent… My WAG is something very unpleasant for their accuser. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076.md?page=2)