# Saudi judge seeks hospitals willing to injure man's spine in "eye for eye"-punishment. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 22, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076 "2010-08-22T16:09:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076/41 "2010-08-24T14:40:13Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > > [@notfrommensa](#): > > > > I had to read this a couple of times: > > > > I was wondering what kind of SOB would get into a fight with a paralyzed man and cut off his foot. > > I just want to know if the guy ever found his foot again. When I lose something I like to retrace my steps, but I don’t think that would work in this case. It should be even easier. There would only be one footprint to follow, and when there becomes two prints, well there’s an important clue right there. Start looking around real careful like. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076/42 "2010-08-24T15:05:45Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > “Thing is, Doc, there’s a criminal we’re set to execute; we often apply the death penalty for offenses like the one he committed, when (a) he can’t undo the damage the way a thief can return stolen money or whatever, and (b) we can’t inflict eye-for-an-eye justice. Anyhow, the prisoner has asked if you can paralyze him instead of having us kill him, and, well, if you’re up for that, I guess we’d prefer it too.” > > What should a physician do in that case? Ask if he’s got health insurance. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076/43 "2010-08-24T16:36:25Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > > [@SanVito](#): > > > > Which of course relies entirely on the premise that stronger penalties actually working as a deterrent. How’s that murder rate working for you in the US these days? > > It plummeted over the course of 15 years after (I presume) three strikes laws were passed. > > [http://stubbornfacts.us/files/ViolentCrimeRateTrend2.gif](http://stubbornfacts.us/files/ViolentCrimeRateTrend2.gif) > > Here’s the UK as a comparison: [http://www.lifenews.com/crim.jpg](http://www.lifenews.com/crim.jpg) I thought that was [the after effect of legalized abortion](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalized_abortion_and_crime_effect), not stricter punishment. ---
**Author:** ![RadicalPi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/radicalpi/32/9806_2.png) [@RadicalPi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadicalPi)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076/44 "2010-08-24T21:18:58Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > “First, do no harm”, comes from Latin (_primum non nocere_), not Greek; it’s not part of the ancient or modern Hippocratic Oaths. It’s a maxim attributed to several different French and English physicians, and can be traced back no further than about 1650. From the Wikipedia: “The Hippocratic Oath includes the promise “to abstain from doing harm” (Greek: ἐπὶ δηλήσει δὲ καὶ ἀδικίῃ εἴρξειν) but not the precise phrase.” > **[Primum non nocere](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primum_non_nocere)** > > Primum non nocere (.mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}Classical Latin: \[ˈpriːmũː noːn nɔˈkeːrɛ\]) is a Latin phrase that means "first, do no harm". The phrase is sometimes recorded as primum nil nocere. > Non-maleficence, which is derived from the maxim, is one of the principal precepts of bioethics that all students in healthcare are tau... So it seems the idea does go back as far as the Greeks, even if the phrasing doesn’t. The full phrase seems to be: “I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone.” > **[Hippocratic Oath](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_oath)** > > The Hippocratic Oath is an oath of ethics historically taken by physicians. It is one of the most widely known of Greek medical texts. In its original form, it requires a new physician to swear, by a number of healing gods, to uphold specific ethical standards. The oath is the earliest expression of medical ethics in the Western world, establishing several principles of medical ethics which remain of paramount significance today. These include the principles of medical confidentiality and non-mal... ---
**Author:** ![gurujulp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba9def/32.png) [@gurujulp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gurujulp)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076/45 "2010-08-24T21:50:40Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > > [@SanVito](#): > > > > Which of course relies entirely on the premise that stronger penalties actually working as a deterrent. How’s that murder rate working for you in the US these days? > > It plummeted over the course of 15 years after (I presume) three strikes laws were passed. > > [http://stubbornfacts.us/files/ViolentCrimeRateTrend2.gif](http://stubbornfacts.us/files/ViolentCrimeRateTrend2.gif) > > Here’s the UK as a comparison: [http://www.lifenews.com/crim.jpg](http://www.lifenews.com/crim.jpg) I do not think those graphs mean what you think they mean, **sage rat** ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076/46 "2010-08-25T01:26:57Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > FYI, I posted a[poll here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=575613) positing a similar situation and asking whether you would maim a person rather than see him killed by someone else. And quick as a flash, you dropped the part that IMHO makes it an interesting question: the first person to respond asked you whether she could ask the hostage, and you promptly shot that down. I’d figured it was the aspect that was doing most of the heavy lifting in my hypothetical; I’m guessing it’s a factor Lady wanted to consider likewise; you eliminated it from your scenario. Why? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076/47 "2010-08-25T02:48:20Z")
I shot it down because I wanted people to make their decision based on their own sense of right and wrong, not with someone else’s opinion. I said something else that I’m still not sure I should have – that the “homeowner” has reason to believe that the hostage is genuinely evil. I said it because I wanted to make it closer to the actual case where a court found the Saudi guy guilty of a crime, i.e., a relative authoritative voice reassuring that the guy to be maimed actually deserves it. But based on some of the comments some posters made, it seems instead to relieved them of a moral choice. “Oh, if I do nothing, this evil guy will be executed. No problem.” So probably I shouldn’t have added that detail. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2010, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076/48 "2010-08-25T11:27:39Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I shot it down because I wanted people to make their decision based on their own sense of right and wrong, not with someone else’s opinion. But what if one’s sense of right and wrong hinges on the other guy’s opinion? “I’d like to do no harm in this situation; the question is, would I be harming this man? Well, in my opinion, no. But that’s no good; what if, in _ **his** _ opinion, it _ **is** _ harm? Then again, what if I refrain from something I see as harmful while he fervently wishes for the alternative he sees as _ **less** _ harmful? It comes to this: if the man before me explains that he’d prefer to die, then I’ll figure that performing the operation on him would constitute harm – and if he instead tells me he’d prefer the operation over death, then I’ll figure that it’s not harm in his case.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-judge-seeks-hospitals-willing-to-injure-mans-spine-in-eye-for-eye-punishment/551076.md?page=2)