# Saudi woman punished for... being gang-raped **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 16, 2009, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067 "2009-02-16T08:12:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/21 "2009-02-16T15:28:48Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > It sucks but there does not appear to be a peaceful solution. Iran was free of all this crap under our authoritarian friend the Shah. They were also free of that crap when we overthrew a democratic secular government and installed the murderous puppet. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/22 "2009-02-16T15:36:20Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > They were also free of that crap when we overthrew a democratic secular government and installed the murderous puppet. Is that true? I don’t know enough about that lovely little incident in our history. I believe you as I believe he was believed to be far too friendly to the Soviets and later we actually supported the far scummier Taliban in our fight against the Soviets. I was not suggesting we use military force, I hope that came through. I was pointing out that there does not appear to be a reasonable answer. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/23 "2009-02-16T15:53:21Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Obviously she is being jailed on a charge of **Gross Stupidity**. :rolleyes: > > # It’s Saudi Arabia. As a woman, you don’t hitchhike. > > # It’s Saudi Arabia. You don’t try to procure an abortion. > > # It’s Saudi Arabia. You don’t then alert the authorities about the _way_ you got pregnant, noting all of the above. > > # It’s Saudi Arabia. She’s lucky she got away with 100 lashes rather than a death sentence. > > Next question? Actually, let’s trim this down just a little. # It’s Saudi Arabia. I don’t think much else needs to be said. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/24 "2009-02-16T15:55:33Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Is that true? I don’t know enough about that lovely little incident in our history. I believe you as I believe he was believed to be far too friendly to the Soviets and later we actually supported the far scummier Taliban in our fight against the Soviets. [Yes.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat) > [@](#): > > The 1953 Iranian coup d’état saw the overthrow of the democratically-elected government of Prime Minister Mohammed Mosaddeq from power by British and United States intelligence operatives working together with Iranian agents and elements of the Iranian army. [1] Kermit Roosevelt, Jr. of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), organized the covert operation - codenamed Operation Ajax - [2] by aiding retired Iranian General Fazlollah Zahedi and Imperial Guard Colonel Nematollah Nassiri, and bribing Iranian officials, news media and businessmen with British and US funds.[3] > > The coup has been called “a critical event in post-war world history.” It ended Iran’s brief experiment with parliamentary democracy and reinstalled Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi as an absolute ruler Their foreign policy was their own concern. As was what they did with their oil. All the time we mistook nationalism for communism in Africa, Asia and south America, with tragic results. We should have left well alone in Afghanistan in the 80’s unless we were prepared to stay the course and not hand the country by default to a bunch of murdering war lords that made the Taliban look like liberators. Didn’t think you were advocating violence. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/25 "2009-02-16T16:11:41Z")
I have but one question. Who cares? The backward ways countries like this employ to deal with their populace are frankly, none of our business. If we need to do business with them, then we do, we don’t have to dance with them at the ball. If your local grocer were in to kiddie porn, but had prices you couldn’t beat anywhere else, you’d still go to him if you needed to save money. Sure, you can grow your own food, but it’ll take years to perfect it and until then, you need to go to the grocery. This entire thing is about reality. This is the reality there. As a human and an American, I’m utterly disgusted. As a realist, I think that this has been going on for 2000 years and will continue for 2000 more and there isn’t a damn thing we can do about it, or frankly SHOULD do about it until the people of a country such as theirs ask us to. The solution, overall, as **What Exit** suggests is one the world doesn’t have the stomach for. The culture on the whole is cancerous and cannot withstand the rigors of western scrutiny because there is too much ingrained fundamentalist religion. As with all cancers, there is a complete and final solution, the direction the solution goes is on the people. As for the woman in the OP, if you don’t want to get eaten by the lion, stay out of his pen. It sounds callous, and I suppose it IS, but if you don’t KNOW or you know and think that someone is going to make an exception, well, I suppose it’s your back, ---
**Author:** ![Atomicflea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@Atomicflea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomicflea)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/26 "2009-02-16T16:16:13Z")
Of course rape is wrong, but the problem here is what the society holds to be the standard for acceptable behavior and punishment. It’s not only Muslims that blame the victim and think that the girl was “placing herself in a bad position” asking for a ride. Some think that maybe she was after money. People are quick to rush to judge, but these are by and large the same stereotypes we cling to. It’s a process that will take time, and I was heartened by some of the comments of the Muslims that don’t agree with how this was handled. [QUOTE=The comments section of the linked article] The punishment is truly unjust and against human rights! I agree the girl must be punished for placing herself in this situation but to actually be jailed for a year and lashed is disgusting. No mention of what happens to the rapists. They go free I guess, what a nice country a safe haven for rapists and a corrupt law that empowers men. Also, what a sick interpretation of sharia, for any adultery committed four male witnesses should be present. From the story none were there or were they? Shame! [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > What if she made a mistake and tried to cover it up by lying? She got pregnant by having consensual sex with another man, got pregnant, maybe talked with him about it and understood he wouldn’t support her, so she did what she could. The timing of the events might be illustrative… People hear these stories and immediately use it to vent their repressed hatred of a culture they don’t even know or understand. Is it possible she lied? > [@](#): > > This is why so many others see us as barbarians. Why do we punish a woman when she was raped? She could not have fought off five men. The men should be hanged for such an offense. The woman should be given money from the mens homes to pay for her to raise that child they made and to punish them. ---
**Author:** ![Atomicflea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/58956e/32.png) [@Atomicflea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomicflea)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/27 "2009-02-16T16:18:59Z")
> [@Atomicflea](#): > > It’s not only Muslims that blame the victim and think that the girl was “placing herself in a bad position” asking for a ride. > [@buttonjockey308](#): > > As for the woman in the OP, if you don’t want to get eaten by the lion, stay out of his pen. It sounds callous, and I suppose it IS, but if you don’t KNOW or you know and think that someone is going to make an exception, well, I suppose it’s your back, See? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![MichaelQReilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@MichaelQReilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelQReilly)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/28 "2009-02-16T16:22:06Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > I have but one question. > > Who cares? > > The backward ways countries like this employ to deal with their populace are frankly, none of our business. If we need to do business with them, then we do, we don’t have to dance with them at the ball. > > If your local grocer were in to kiddie porn, but had prices you couldn’t beat anywhere else, you’d still go to him if you needed to save money. > > Sure, you can grow your own food, but it’ll take years to perfect it and until then, you need to go to the grocery. > > This entire thing is about reality. This is the reality there. As a human and an American, I’m utterly disgusted. As a realist, I think that this has been going on for 2000 years and will continue for 2000 more and there isn’t a damn thing we can do about it, or frankly SHOULD do about it until the people of a country such as theirs ask us to. > > The solution, overall, as **What Exit** suggests is one the world doesn’t have the stomach for. The culture on the whole is cancerous and cannot withstand the rigors of western scrutiny because there is too much ingrained fundamentalist religion. As with all cancers, there is a complete and final solution, the direction the solution goes is on the people. > > As for the woman in the OP, if you don’t want to get eaten by the lion, stay out of his pen. It sounds callous, and I suppose it IS, but if you don’t KNOW or you know and think that someone is going to make an exception, well, I suppose it’s your back, I largely agree with you, but there are two sides to this coin. I don’t think anyone would argue that India is a worse place because the Brits wiped out the Thugees, do you? ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/29 "2009-02-16T16:38:57Z")
I don’t understand the hatred… FACT: A man cannot be guilty of rape unless 4 (I think) male eyewitnesses attest to his raping. This is fair because I imagine a woman wouldn’t be convicted of rape unless 4 men also witnessed it. So…no rape. She, however, admitted to having sex with a man she isn’t married to. In addition, she is pregnant…PROVING she is a disgusting, evil adulterer. So, she is punished for being an adulterer. Very logical…how could you disagree? Now…let’s get back to talking about bringing back scourging and crucifixion for financial executives… ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/30 "2009-02-16T16:47:51Z")
After reading the article, what strikes me most is that the woman CONFESSED to being raped. Yep, it was her fault. :mad: Now, if she is guilty of being raped, and deserves to be imprisoned and lashed, then I think that her attackers deserve the death penalty. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/31 "2009-02-16T16:58:07Z")
> [@erislover](#): > > “I should lock my car doors to give a minimum of protection.” I don’t lock my car doors, and my CDs get stolen. Am I to blame? No. Should I be punished? No. > > Should I have known better? Yes. Nope. I don’t give those barbaric assholes the benefit of even the slightest “them’s the rules” slack. There are some acts or laws that are so fucking evil that if you perpetrate / enforce them, prior warning doesn’t mean shit. And anyone who violates said evil laws gets absolutely no flack from me. None, not even of the “you knew they were going to chop off a part of your body when you tried to escape from slavery, so you can’t complain now” variety. There’s some vile shit that goes on in the world, and as a rule, it’s crystal clear where all our animus and censure–all of it–should be focused. Especially when the really egregious examples occur. Anyway, it’s my personal policy, in the Stratocaster handbook and everything. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/32 "2009-02-16T17:02:10Z")
She’s fortunate not to have been punished again after the lashing, for engaging in S&M. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/33 "2009-02-16T17:37:54Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > After reading the article, what strikes me most is that the woman CONFESSED to being raped. Yep, it was her fault. :mad: Now, if she is guilty of being raped, and deserves to be imprisoned and lashed, then I think that her attackers deserve the death penalty. NO NO NO! There was no rape…if there was rape there would have been 4 male witnesses! She is a disgusting, filthy, evil adulterer…of that we are certain…she admitted to it! Even if she didn’t…she’s unmarried and pregnant! Sheesh, you people. Is logic a foreign concept for you all? ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/34 "2009-02-16T17:47:34Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Nope. I don’t give those barbaric assholes the benefit of even the slightest “them’s the rules” slack. There are some acts or laws that are so fucking evil that if you perpetrate / enforce them, prior warning doesn’t mean shit. And anyone who violates said evil laws gets absolutely no flack from me. None, not even of the “you knew they were going to chop off a part of your body when you tried to escape from slavery, so you can’t complain now” variety. There’s some vile shit that goes on in the world, and as a rule, it’s crystal clear where all our animus and censure–all of it–should be focused. Especially when the really egregious examples occur. > > Anyway, it’s my personal policy, in the Stratocaster handbook and everything. As it should be, because you are exactly right. I would venture to say that MOST victims of crimes could have been more careful, but so what? Basically what people are saying here is that not ONLY is it just too damn bad that this woman got gang-raped (because she should have known better) but that it’s also too damn bad that she is the one who was punished for it (because she should have known better). That goes way beyond blaming the victim. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/35 "2009-02-16T18:04:37Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > You can’t judge other cultures! They’re all unique and beautiful and equal in their own way! Better, even! Better than western culture, which is decadent and stupid and evil. I can see what you are trying to do here. I’ll take the bait. Yes you can judge other cultures and you can _also_ judge our culture. And all cultures come up short in their own ways. We may agree that we find American culture is better but it is not _absolutely_ better than everything else. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/36 "2009-02-16T18:08:28Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > She’s fortunate not to have been punished again after the lashing, for engaging in S&M. Haa! ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/37 "2009-02-16T18:37:36Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Nope. I don’t give those barbaric assholes the benefit of even the slightest “them’s the rules” slack. There are some acts or laws that are so fucking evil that if you perpetrate / enforce them, prior warning doesn’t mean shit. And anyone who violates said evil laws gets absolutely no flack from me. None, not even of the “you knew they were going to chop off a part of your body when you tried to escape from slavery, so you can’t complain now” variety. The problem is that no one in this thread has seriously suggested anything of the sort. The best advice is **get the fuck out of Saudi Arabia**. I agree that this has been despicable from beginning to end. The woman did not get what was coming to her. Nevertheless, it is not surprising that that backward culture did this, and if it didn’t surprise me, it sure as shit shouldn’t surprise _her_. You seem to take this as blaming the victim. It’s more of a pessimistic outlook on what life must be like there, at least from me. > [@](#): > > There’s some vile shit that goes on in the world, and as a rule, it’s crystal clear where all our animus and censure–all of it–should be focused. Especially when the really egregious examples occur. Of course. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/38 "2009-02-16T18:42:58Z")
What do we do next? Invade the jungles and stop cannibalism? There are wayyyy too many in differences in the world to be able to control, much less worry about them. The best thing we can do is put political pressure on those that have the power, but I’m not looking for any results. I’m sure there’s a some people in another country chatting somewhere saying, “Can you believe they’re allowed to purchase and own hand-guns and have abortions?” The Humanity!?!?! ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/39 "2009-02-16T19:08:37Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > It is remarkable to me how the plight of women in some countries gets so little attention. If you you replace all the women of Saudi Arabia with black people subject to the same conditions, the world would have long since taken significant actions to make change. I’m not so sure of that . . . aren’t there still areas in Africa where Arabs are enslaving blacks? ---
**Author:** ![HumanMonkeyGod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c67d28/32.png) [@HumanMonkeyGod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HumanMonkeyGod)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/40 "2009-02-16T19:09:03Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > So what is the solution? Seriously, do we forcibly end all of these corrupt backwards nations? Do we ensure that Sharia Law is stomped out? We than will need to ensure that the schools stop teaching the old ways. I guess we never should have pressured the UK and others to release the Middle-Eastern States. > > It sucks but there does not appear to be a peaceful solution. Iran was free of all this crap under our authoritarian friend the Shah. I guess instead of accepting condemnation for supporting him we should have supported him far more. Except for one huge problem, the people of Iran seem to actually prefer their theocracy. Saudi is our ally, it is a sad situation as their method of government and laws are reprehensible to us. > > It is easy to condemn but few have the stomach for the solution, as the solution would end up starting WW III. They are not going to change in the meantime and they appear to be growing in power. The most appropriate analogy I see is as **The Flying Dutchman** put forward, with racism. Have peacable solutions to racism been found? I believe so. Could a solution to this be found? I I believe so even more. I may well stand corrected, but I don’t think any black woman in the worst period of the height of world racism could have suffered this kind of absolute atrocity. I have little doubt there was much rape and abuse, but to be _punished_ for it afterwards? Why was racism so bad and this is somebody else’s problem? Why was South Africa such a big deal? [QUOTE=buttonjockey308] As for the woman in the OP, if you don’t want to get eaten by the lion, stay out of his pen. It sounds callous, and I suppose it IS, but if you don’t KNOW or you know and think that someone is going to make an exception, well, I suppose it’s your back, [/quote] w… what the fuck? Are you fucking serious? jock, these women are born into this. They have NO CHOICE. I understand there are starving people and people in wars and they seriously lack choice too and that’s terrible in its own right, but this is… I really struggle to even try describe how wrong and disgusting this is. Do you think the women in a society like that can maybe save up and buy an airticket out of there? Where to? Do you think they even have the education to know what something exists beyond the desert? Could they even physically just run away? Where can they run too? The desert? The shelter of a neighboring country with similar laws? And basically saying women there should shutup and “go with the flow”… that’s not a solution. I think the reason this story troubles me so much is not just the hateful crime of rape (or gangrape for that matter), but the crime that followed… the “justice”. This doesn’t equate with regular cannibalism. This is chopping off someone’s leg, eating some and then forcing them to eat some too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067.md?page=3)