# Saudi woman punished for... being gang-raped **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 16, 2009, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067 "2009-02-16T08:12:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/121 "2009-02-20T11:52:04Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’m not a fan of Islam myself, but this “hey, how come Islam isn’t denouncing this?” meme is getting really tiresome. > > Saudi Arabia is dominated by Wahabists, who practice what amounts to the most reactionary form of the faith. Suggesting that Saudi Arabia is representative of Islam in general is just silly. Unless I’m missing something, Saudi Arabia is one of the more powerful Islamic nations on earth. It can shape world policy with oil alone, not to mention the fact that it contains Mecca and serves as the destination of Hajj. And you’re saying it’s not _representative_? But let’s say you’re right, and SA does not represent Islam (Again, how can you say this with a straight face?). Let’s just take a look at the globe. Pakistan, Afghanistan, the Sudan, Somalia, Algeria, Egypt, the Philippine Island rebels, and I’m only stopping here because I have to get ready for work. Even in the countries that _aren’t_ total shitholes, I’m guessing Gloria Steinem and Cynthia Heimel don’t sell a lot of books there. What am I missing here? If this isn’t part of Islam, then what’s it a part of? And where are the counter-examples? Oh, I know about Senator Ellison and how he was sworn in on Koran, and I’m fine with that. I’m not worried about him. But however influential he is, he is still just one man. I’m talking about entire nations here. Compared to the Majlis al-Shurah, Keith is small potatos. I’m not saying good Muslims don’t exist. I’m saying that there’s no way you can consider them representative in and of themselves. Not when you hold them up against the national policies of the countries mentioned above. _That’s_ where the power is concentrated. ---
**Author:** ![HumanMonkeyGod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c67d28/32.png) [@HumanMonkeyGod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HumanMonkeyGod)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/122 "2009-02-21T19:08:25Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Anyway, the point is that Saudi Arabia is a remarkably safe place, for the most part. If the ‘part’ in question is a penis, then yes it’s very safe. [ [QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Suggesting that Saudi Arabia is representative of Islam in general is just silly. [/quote] Apparently none of the disgusting things we see from muslims are truly representative of Islam. So… what IS representative? The cries of condemnation of acts like this by other muslims? The general social and community building we see from muslims around the world? Their generosity towards fellow humans? The peaceful way different sects of Islam interact with each other? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/123 "2009-02-21T19:20:10Z")
> [@Linty\_Fresh](#): > > Unless I’m missing something, Saudi Arabia is one of the more powerful Islamic nations on earth. It can shape world policy with oil alone, not to mention the fact that it contains Mecca and serves as the destination of Hajj. And you’re saying it’s not _representative_? Well, no. Depending on how you consider such things, either the US or Brazil would be the most powerful (or most populous, at any rate) Christian nation on earth. Is either one representative of Christians and/or Christian countries? Arguing that Saudi Arabia is somehow more representative of Islam because it contains Mecca is akin to arguing that Italy is more representative of Christianity because the Vatican is in it. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/124 "2009-02-21T19:29:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Arguing that Saudi Arabia is somehow more representative of Islam because it contains Mecca is akin to arguing that Italy is more representative of Christianity because the Vatican is in it. Did I miss the news story where the Vatican began supporting every Christian denomination, whereupon every Christian denomination suddenly decided that they had to make a pilgrimage to the Vatican? Or is this a really lousy analogy? ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/125 "2009-02-21T19:34:20Z")
Actually, now that I think about it, why _can’t_ we say that the Vatican is a major influence on Christianity? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/126 "2009-02-21T19:35:16Z")
> [@Linty\_Fresh](#): > > Did I miss the news story where the Vatican began supporting every Christian denomination, whereupon every Christian denomination suddenly decided that they had to make a pilgrimage to the Vatican? Or is this a really lousy analogy? Hardly. Fewer than 20% of Muslims complete the hajj in their lifetimes- about 2 million a year. About 4 million people visit the Vatican every year- the vast majority of them nominally Christian. ETA: You certainly ought to say that the Vatican is a major influence on Christianity. However, that doesn’t mean that Italy is a fair representative of Christianity- and I don’t see outraged people calling on Protestant leaders to denounce the Pope when he says something stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/127 "2009-02-21T19:49:46Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Hardly. Fewer than 20% of Muslims complete the hajj in their lifetimes- about 2 million a year. About 4 million people visit the Vatican every year- the vast majority of them nominally Christian. > > ETA: You certainly ought to say that the Vatican is a major influence on Christianity. However, that doesn’t mean that Italy is a fair representative of Christianity- and I don’t see outraged people calling on Protestant leaders to denounce the Pope when he says something stupid. Even if they don’t complete the Hajj, every Muslim regards Mecca as the holiest city. It doesn’t matter if they’re Shiite, Sunni, or Sufi. Are you really trying to tell me this doesn’t enter into Saudi Arabia’s influence at all? Please. The Vatican is the holiest city to Catholicism alone. It’s not really a fair comparison. And I guarantee you that Protestants are more than happy to criticize the pope when he says something stupid, and the more fire and brimstone these protestants are, the fiercer their condemnation of him. You picked the wrong example to use here. I might also add that the popes in my lifetime have certainly said stupid things–and I’ll repeat that they’ve been called on them by Protestants–but as far as I know, they never advocated or offered financial support to the targetting of civilians in terrorist attacks, not even terrorist attacks against people they happen to disagree with, such as abortion clinic doctors. That doesn’t mean that _no_ Christians advocate them or that this fact lets Christianity off the hook for the attacks that have been perpetrated, but again, your analogy is wayyyy off. And in any case, as I said above, even if SA is not representative of Islam, SA, Algeria, Afghanistan, yadda-yadda read the post above is _certainly_ representative. Waving these examples away with the observation that it’s not true Islam isn’t just invoking the No True Scotsman fallacy; it’s practically stating that there were never _any_ Scotsmen around to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/128 "2009-02-21T19:53:19Z")
> [@HumanMonkeyGod](#): > > So… what IS representative? The cries of condemnation of acts like this by other muslims? The general social and community building we see from muslims around the world? Their generosity towards fellow humans? The peaceful way different sects of Islam interact with each other? Nahhh, it’s their tolerant attitude towards and willingness to compromise peacefully with Israel. Not to mention women’s rights. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/129 "2009-02-22T00:42:04Z")
> [@Linty\_Fresh](#): > > and > > I’ve been thinking this over, and I’ve come to the conclusion that you two are right, and I was wrong. > > Sigh . . . overall, I’m fine with religion. I really am. But this shit in SA and with Islam in general has been bugging me over the past couple of years. I can’t reconcile the claims to it being a religion of peace with what I’ve been seeing in SA, Afghanistan, Pakistan ( **especially fucking Pakistan** ), and any number of countries where Islam has taken over. And that’s not counting the rising antisemitism in France and England. I realize that most Muslims are probably fine. They just want to be left alone and live their lives, but on a larger level Islam’s problems have started to show, and they are not trivial. At this point, I’m not sure they’re even solvable. Perhaps you would fucking like to tell me what about “fucking Pakistan” you find distasteful. Of course, being an ignorant bigot you might not even know the answer to that. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/130 "2009-02-22T00:58:55Z")
> [@](#): > > The Vatican is the holiest city to Catholicism alone. It’s not really a fair comparison. And I guarantee you that Protestants are more than happy to criticize the pope when he says something stupid, and the more fire and brimstone these protestants are, the fiercer their condemnation of him. You picked the wrong example to use here. In fact, many evangelical Christians will claim that Catholics are NOT Christian. While Jack Chick does not speak for all evangelicals, many will agree with his [opinions](http://www.chick.com/information/religions/catholicism/) on Catholicism. I live in Texas, where evangelical and fundamentalist Christians are in the majority, and I have to sometimes just turn away when I hear these people loudly proclaiming who will have to “Face the Lord” and “Go to Hell” when they die. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/131 "2009-02-22T02:00:13Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Perhaps you would fucking like to tell me what about “fucking Pakistan” you find distasteful. Of course, being an ignorant bigot you might not even know the answer to that. Oooh, nice debating technique. What do you call it, spitting on the keyboard? OK, **AK** , it’s a fair question. Let’s begin. Pakistan provides both direct and indirect support to the Taliban, not the least of the ties being with Hamid Gul, former chief of the ISI, who openly supports Osama bin Laden. You know it, I know it, and everyone who spent enough time in high school to sound out the words in an **Economist** article knows it. Not only that, but there is quite a bit of proof out there that the ISI (Pakistan’s intelligence service for those of you who haven’t been following events during the last 7 1/2 years) directly funds and trains Kashmiri separatists to carry out terrorist attacks in Northern India. Hamid, I might add, supports these too. Oh, and Pakistan also plays host to a few fun-luvin’ homegrown terrorist organizations in its own backyard, which may or may not have direct ties with the ISI. Since we don’t have concrete proof of that, let’s say that they don’t. [You might have read about them in the paper somewhere](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumbai_attacks). Of course, it sorta kinda _tried_ to advance women’s rights by electing Benzair Bhutto. Yes, she was corrupt, yes, her books were more cooked than those of a Yakuza-controlled Pachinko parlor, but did your peaceful Islamic groups _really_ have to shoot her in the head and then blow her up on international TV? See over here, we have 60 Minutes for that sort of thing. The target might _wish_ he or she was blown up on international television, but he still leaves the studio breathing, if not actually living. Well, that’s what I find distasteful about fucking Pakistan. I guess it’s your turn to tell us exactly do you find tasteful about it, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/132 "2009-02-22T15:23:57Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > She’s fortunate not to have been punished again after the lashing, for engaging in S&M. Hey, some Muslim might be reading this. Don’t give them any ideas! ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/133 "2009-02-22T15:31:54Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > That jumped out at me, too. How very odd. It’s a good thing she wasn’t murdered after the gang rape. Would have made the confession a bit more difficult to obtain. They probably tortured the confession out of her. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/134 "2009-02-22T16:00:49Z")
> [@Linty\_Fresh](#): > > Oooh, nice debating technique. What do you call it, spitting on the keyboard? > > OK, **AK** , it’s a fair question. Let’s begin. > > Pakistan provides both direct and indirect support to the Taliban, not the least of the ties being with Hamid Gul, former chief of the ISI, who openly supports Osama bin Laden. You know it, I know it, and everyone who spent enough time in high school to sound out the words in an **Economist** article knows it. Not only that, but there is quite a bit of proof out there that the ISI (Pakistan’s intelligence service for those of you who haven’t been following events during the last 7 1/2 years) directly funds and trains Kashmiri separatists to carry out terrorist attacks in Northern India. Hamid, I might add, supports these too. > > Oh, and Pakistan also plays host to a few fun-luvin’ homegrown terrorist organizations in its own backyard, which may or may not have direct ties with the ISI. Since we don’t have concrete proof of that, let’s say that they don’t. [You might have read about them in the paper somewhere](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumbai_attacks). > > Of course, it sorta kinda _tried_ to advance women’s rights by electing Benzair Bhutto. Yes, she was corrupt, yes, her books were more cooked than those of a Yakuza-controlled Pachinko parlor, but did your peaceful Islamic groups _really_ have to shoot her in the head and then blow her up on international TV? See over here, we have 60 Minutes for that sort of thing. The target might _wish_ he or she was blown up on international television, but he still leaves the studio breathing, if not actually living. > > Well, that’s what I find distasteful about fucking Pakistan. I guess it’s your turn to tell us exactly do you find tasteful about it, huh? You left out the “tribal area” on the southern border between Afghanistan and Pakistan, which neither government apparently has any ability to control, and which is pretty much Taliban-ville. Sure, Pakistan doesn’t control it, but isn’t that Pakistan’s failure as much as having a secret police whose major job seems to be supporting terrorism? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/135 "2009-02-22T16:02:25Z")
FWIW in my mostly Muslim Cameroonian village, Arabs were almost universally despised. People who had never even met an Arab would go on and on about how Arabs were ruining the world. Even among the people who had been to Mecca, “I hate Arabs” was always a popular topic of conversation. I always found it kind of a amusing. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/136 "2009-02-22T17:15:51Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > You left out the “tribal area” on the southern border between Afghanistan and Pakistan, which neither government apparently has any ability to control, and which is pretty much Taliban-ville. Sure, Pakistan doesn’t control it, but isn’t that Pakistan’s failure as much as having a secret police whose major job seems to be supporting terrorism? Yup: [http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=100855487&ft=1&f=2101154](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=100855487&ft=1&f=2101154) EWWWW! Fuck them. And fuck every last living Pakistani involved with this surrender to the women haters. You don’t make “deals” with people who burn down schools because people with vaginas rather than penises attend them. So fuck Pakistan. And fuck Saudi Arabia. They suck. Their society is run by batshit lunatics and deserves no respect at all. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067/137 "2009-02-23T19:01:08Z")
I’m glad people are growing weary of these fucking assholes. Perhaps one day we can eradicate that which has become a cancer on the heart of religion(s) and just be decent peaceable people with one another, no matter who we pray to. Plus, maybe a pony. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saudi-woman-punished-for-being-gang-raped/486067.md?page=6)