# Sauron regains the ring - What now? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 18, 2002, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-regains-the-ring-what-now/137405 "2002-11-18T22:59:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bauble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f6c823/32.png) [@bauble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bauble)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-regains-the-ring-what-now/137405/21 "2002-11-19T13:47:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jerevan Somerville \* > \*\* > There is a third ring but I can’t remember who had it. **Monstre** suggests that Gandalf himself had one. > > \*\* Yep, it was Gandalf. Nenya, I believe was the ring’s name and it was the ring of fire. He used it to create/protect the Shire. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-regains-the-ring-what-now/137405/22 "2002-11-19T13:54:01Z")
Um…the Shire was not one of the magical sites like Lorien or Imladris. It was created without Gandalf’s intervention in the middle of the 3rd Age, by the king of Arthedain after the Hobbits migrating westward from the Misty Mountains asked permission to settle. It was protected by the Rangers of the North after Gandalf discovered that Frodo’s ring was the One, but it never had magical protection. The Nazgul were active within the Shire, remember. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-regains-the-ring-what-now/137405/23 "2002-11-19T15:52:39Z")
**Nenya** (Ring of Adamant) is the name of Galadriel’s ring. In the Extended DVD. she names it when she shows it to Frodo. Gandalf’s ring is **Narya**. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-regains-the-ring-what-now/137405/24 "2002-11-19T16:00:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by I am Sparticus \* > **The ring had more powers than just controlling the other rings: it had the power to vastly increase the perceived stature of the bearer of the ring. Note that Frodo easily cowed Gollum and had planted a subconscious command for Gollum to make his final misstep.** Is that last statement true? I don’t recall it. ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-regains-the-ring-what-now/137405/25 "2002-11-19T16:09:23Z")
**Gandalf’s ring is Narya.** Which he used to put fire into the hearts of Men (and others) to fight again Sauron. At least, that’s how I always imagined it (and the words of Ciradan, the Shipwright, too). As for the One Ring, once Sauron gains it back, all of Middle Earth would have been covered by his shadow. For how long would be a good question. Would the Valar taken an interest again, to free Middle Earth from evil? As for Sauron’s Eye, I always had the impression that it was the part of his consciousness that was searching for the Ring. He was so anxious to get the Ring back, he “overlooked” everything else. He was so sure that **someone** would use it. He totally overlooked the idea that Men would destroy the Ring rather than use it. And that was his error, he was obsessed with the Ring and became oblivious to any other course of action. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-regains-the-ring-what-now/137405/26 "2002-11-19T16:27:28Z")
Aragorn’s ploy with the palantir (done against Gandalf’s advice) helped to goad Sauron into acting too soon and overlooking the hobbits sneaking into Mordor as well. Once Aragorn revealed himself as the heir of Isildur, Sauron was sure Aragorn had the Ring and was going to use it because that’s what Sauron would do. ---
**Author:** ![caveman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caveman/32/7242_2.png) [@caveman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caveman)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-regains-the-ring-what-now/137405/27 "2002-11-19T16:38:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jayjay \* > \*\*Aragorn’s ploy with the palantir (done against Gandalf’s advice) helped to goad Sauron into acting too soon and overlooking the hobbits sneaking into Mordor as well. Once Aragorn revealed himself as the heir of Isildur, Sauron was sure Aragorn had the Ring and was going to use it because that’s what Sauron would do. \*\* My new bumpersticker: WWSD? ---
**Author:** ![bauble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f6c823/32.png) [@bauble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bauble)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-regains-the-ring-what-now/137405/28 "2002-11-19T20:39:18Z")
To clarify the comments I’d made earlier: 1. Oops. I got the name of Gandalf’s ring wrong. Sorry about that (damned Elvish names). 2. When I used the term “created/protected” I meant to imply that it was one of the other, not both; my memory for these details is not good. However, according to JRRT himself, the Elvish rings’ primary power was the protection and preservation of places and things of beauty. > [@](#): > > “The chief power (of all the rings alike) was the prevention or slowing of decay (i.e. ‘change’ viewed as a regrettable thing), the preservation of what is desired or loved, or its semblance - this is more or less an Elvish motive. But also they enhanced the natural powers of a possessor - thus approaching ‘magic’, a motive easily corruptible into evil, a lust for domination. And finally they had other powers, more directly derived from Sauron… such as rendering invisible the material body, and making things of the invisible world visible.” > > The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien #131 Lothlorien and Rivendell were magical places during LOTR because they had always been such, not because they were under the protection of a ring of power (though the presence of these rings there may have added to their magical nature). The Shire, on the other hand, was never a magical place and the bearer of it’s protecting ring was seldom there; so it remained a non-magical place, as it had always been. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-regains-the-ring-what-now/137405/29 "2002-11-19T22:35:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by I am Sparticus \* > \*\*Yes, there is stuff in the Silmarillion back when the evil one had form. \*\* Yeah, I know about the Silmarillion…Throughout most of the book, Sauron had the power to take any shape he wanted. Hell, just against Huan, he changed “From wolf to serpent, from monster to his own accustomed form,” then into a vampire as he ran away. But he lost the ability to take an attractive form in the fall of Numenor when the world was changed, but then I guess he never lost the complete ability to take a form until the Ring was destroyed. Which is where I let the movie ruin my memory of the book, thinking that he lost his body entirely when Isildur cut the Ring from his hand. I was wondering if there was any further reference to his form in LOTR, aside from the “four fingers” comment by Gollum. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-regains-the-ring-what-now/137405/30 "2002-11-19T22:48:28Z")
> [@](#): > > But he lost the ability to take an _attractive_ form in the fall of Numenor Well, maybe if he gets the ring back, he’ll be able to become a Baywatch Babe, or something… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-regains-the-ring-what-now/137405/31 "2002-11-19T23:18:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monstre \* > According to Gandalf in chapter 2 of FOTR (I’m re-reading it at the moment), “Seven the Dwarf-kings possessed, but three he has recovered, and the others the dragons have consumed”. > > So, I guess Sauron would also gain control of some dragon bowels… 😉 I think “the dragons have consumed” means “the dragons have destroyed”. In the beginning chapter where, back in the Shire, Gandalf first tells Frodo about the powers of the ring, he says something like “A dragon could destroy one of the lesser rings, but not even the fires of (_insert name of high-muck-a-muck dragon here_) could destroy the One Ring.” ---
**Author:** ![Jerevan\_Somerville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@Jerevan\_Somerville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jerevan_Somerville)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-regains-the-ring-what-now/137405/32 "2002-11-19T23:41:38Z")
… then remind me never to stand next to a high-mucka-mucka dragon after he’s gone through the salad bar at Wendy’s. . . ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-regains-the-ring-what-now/137405/33 "2002-11-19T23:47:56Z")
> [@](#): > > I think “the dragons have consumed” means “the dragons have destroyed”. Well, you’re probably right, but I still like my version better. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-regains-the-ring-what-now/137405/34 "2002-11-19T23:48:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bauble \* > \*\*Lothlorien and Rivendell were magical places during LOTR because they had always been such, not because they were under the protection of a ring of power (though the presence of these rings there may have added to their magical nature). The Shire, on the other hand, was never a magical place and the bearer of it’s protecting ring was seldom there; so it remained a non-magical place, as it had always been. \*\* Actually, this is inaccurate. Lothlorien, at least, **was** created _and_ protected by Galadriel’s ring. Otherwise it wouldn’t have been doomed to fade away once the Elven rings’ power source (the One Ring) was destroyed. Galadriel even acknowledges this when she’s being tempted and tested by Frodo’s offer to give her the One. She knows the only way to preserve the timelessness and beauty of Lorien is to not destroy the One, and yet she still allows the Fellowship to continue (which was, at least in part, the virtue which allowed her to return to Valinor with the Last Ride). Rivendell is much more tentative on that score, though it is obvious that its power and influence fade quickly once the Age of Men begins. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-regains-the-ring-what-now/137405/35 "2002-11-19T23:58:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonathan Chance \* > \*\*Is that last statement true? I don’t recall it. \*\* On the slopes of Mount Doom, when Gollum attacks Frodo and Sam, Frodo says to him “If you touch me ever again, you shall be cast yourself into the Fire of Doom”, a statement that shortly becomes true. This is on page 221 of ROTK, Houghton Mifflin 2nd edition, if that is any help. ---
**Author:** ![Inky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7feea3/32.png) [@Inky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inky_1)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-regains-the-ring-what-now/137405/36 "2002-11-20T00:28:25Z")
With a groan and a clanking of mystical armour, Sauron heavily laid back into his Lay-Z-Boy™ recliner. Middle Earth was well and truly in his grasp. His Ork hoardes and legions of souless beasts rode uncontested from mountain to sea. He’d longe since drained the Two Towers of their mystic essesence, leaving them crumbling tombstones of a past age. “Well, shit. Now what do I do?” T’urug, Ork captain of Clan Bloodhand entered his chamber and bowed low. “Master, the I have the interrogation transcripts from the Elven Lords. Under torture they revealed all the secrets of the ancient…” “Okay, okay T’urug. Just leave it in the ‘In’ box over there. (Sigh). Omnimptence really takes the zest out of life, you know that. I mean, what’s the point of learning anything new when reality bends to my will?” “Sire?” “I mean, I slaughter millions, I raze mountains, I create legions of hellbeasts from scratch, I turn the moon blood red on a whim…” “Ooo! I remember that! That was a good 'un!” “Yeah, but I just don’t… you know… _enjoy_. I’ve lost my ‘bonheur de vivre’” "Master! My deadly hoard will track down the thief and return to you your Bonnet of Feathers!!! “No, no, no. It means “Passion for Life”. I mean, what makes _you_ happy? What’s your lifes passion?” “Eer… Running dwarves through with my sword “Mr. Stabby””. “Okay, fair enough. But have you ever taken a look at _why_ that makes you happy?” “Um, if you do it in the belly they make a funny squeaking noise”. “(Sigh) never mind. I’m sorry I asked. What’s for dinner anyway?” “Troll Pudding sire!” “I really didn’t think this thing through…” ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-regains-the-ring-what-now/137405/37 "2002-11-20T00:31:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Laughing Lagomorph \* > \*\*On the slopes of Mount Doom, when Gollum attacks Frodo and Sam, Frodo says to him “If you touch me ever again, you shall be cast yourself into the Fire of Doom”, a statement that shortly becomes true. This is on page 221 of ROTK, Houghton Mifflin 2nd edition, if that is any help. \*\* But that doesn’t mean Frodo was planting a subconscious suggestion, as stated earlier. We’re talking _Destiny_ here, folks! The hand of Eru himself! ---
**Author:** ![Jerevan\_Somerville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@Jerevan\_Somerville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jerevan_Somerville)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-regains-the-ring-what-now/137405/38 "2002-11-20T01:08:09Z")
I dunno, **Inky** : I think Sauron might enjoy a long rest after all his hard work. A vacation, perhaps, to the ruins of Numenor? The elven lands in the West? ---
**Author:** ![Pantone\_Swatchbook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/cc9497/32.png) [@Pantone\_Swatchbook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantone_Swatchbook)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-regains-the-ring-what-now/137405/39 "2002-11-20T01:18:41Z")
So what would be so terrible about Sauron gaining power? Wouldnt things stabilize after a while? If he had complete authority over Middle Earth, he would not need to wage wars or hoard resources for a war economy, would he? Its not in his best interest to just keep everyone impoverished and miserable as that would make poor workers and an ineffective populace. What is it really that makes him EVIL? ---
**Author:** ![Samui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@Samui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Samui)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-regains-the-ring-what-now/137405/40 "2002-11-20T01:44:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe\_Cool \* > \*\*Hrm…Is there any more regarding his form than has been posted here? I don’t recall his making an actual appearance in the book, and I managed to let the movie color my memory. haha > > Thanks for the correction. \*\* Other than the “four fingers” remark: In the last chapter of the _Silmarillion_ which briefly describes the events of LOTR we have the following quotes: > [@](#): > > Then Sauron was for that time vanquished, and he forsook his body, and his spirit fled far away and his in was places; and he took no visible shape again for many long years. This is right after Isildur performs his finger amputation maneuver [qoute]…It was the shadow of Sauron and the sign of his return. For coming out of the wastes of the East he took up his abode in the south of the forest and slowly he grew and took shape there again… … And returning to Elrond he said: "It is Sauron himself who has taken shape again and now grows apace… [/quote] A little before the events of the _Hobbit_ (ish) From LOTR (\* The Council of Elrond:\*): > [@](#): > > He was non othere than Sauron, our enemy of old, at length taking shape and power again. Finally in _The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien_ (#246) we have this from the master him self: > [@](#): > > Sauron should be thought of as very terrible. The form that he took was that of a man of more than human stature, but not gigantic. There are even more quotes that prove this point, but I don’t feel like looking them all up. As for all the “Lidless Eye” references, I would argue that they are metaphorical, refering to Sauron’s nasty habbit of being incredibly watchfull and alert when it comes to the trivial matters of Numenorian Kings, Palantiri, Rings of Power, and the like. And as such the symbol by which he represents himself, on banners, orc shields and hobbit visions is a fiery eye. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-regains-the-ring-what-now/137405.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-regains-the-ring-what-now/137405.md?page=3)