# Sauron vs the Sith **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 23, 2005, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-vs-the-sith/305174 "2005-05-23T21:58:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-vs-the-sith/305174/21 "2005-05-24T16:02:53Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > Okay…what is this from? it sounds familar. [One does not simply walk into Mordor](http://xforums.net/ib/index.php?showtopic=16175) ---
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-vs-the-sith/305174/22 "2005-05-24T16:11:33Z")
I would rather see a Elrond vs Darth Vader fight. You never really get to see what Elrond could do, would be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-vs-the-sith/305174/23 "2005-05-24T19:23:37Z")
How about Yoda vs the Balrog of Moria? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-vs-the-sith/305174/24 "2005-05-24T19:29:45Z")
“Now witness the power of this fully armed and operational Ring of Power!” ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-vs-the-sith/305174/25 "2005-05-25T01:36:14Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > [One does not simply walk into Mordor](http://xforums.net/ib/index.php?showtopic=16175) I still do not understand. WRS ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-vs-the-sith/305174/26 "2005-05-25T01:49:54Z")
Try this one instead. Oh, man, that would be [so frickin’ AWESOME!](http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=9868) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-vs-the-sith/305174/27 "2005-05-25T01:50:43Z")
> [@WeRSauron](#): > > I still do not understand. > > WRS Sorry…I didn’t realize the link to it had broken. [Here’s](http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=9868) one that’s still working. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-vs-the-sith/305174/28 "2005-05-25T01:51:46Z")
> [@Happy Scrappy Hero Pup](#): > > [sub]I’m sorry… I have to…[/sub] > > “You don’t just fly a dozen small fighters into the Deathstar…” > “Death. Star.” > “What?” > “It’s Death, space, Star.” > “You don’t just fly a dozen small fighters into the Death Star.” > “Yes you do. You totally do.” > > ::d&r:: And you need Ninjas. And Jedi. NINJA JEDI! And Ewoks that shoot laser beams out of their eyes… ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-vs-the-sith/305174/29 "2005-05-25T12:03:45Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > How about Yoda vs the Balrog of Moria? Evil thoughts…unable to resist! “Secret Servant of the Force, I am! Lightsaber of Arnor,I wield! The Dark Flame avail you not, Udun Flame! Back to the shadow go you! Pass, you shall not!” ---
**Author:** ![Fringe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b5a626/32.png) [@Fringe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fringe)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-vs-the-sith/305174/30 "2005-05-25T13:36:32Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > And you need Ninjas. And Jedi. > NINJA JEDI! > > And Ewoks that shoot laser beams out of their eyes… How about ninja jedi ewoks that shoot laser beams out of their eyes? With jet packs? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-vs-the-sith/305174/31 "2005-05-25T14:40:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Luke vs Fëanor Luke gets stomped so hard, Darth Vader comes back and berates Feanor for kicking him around. It took several Balrogs acting in concert to kill Feanor, and even then he almost held them off long enough for his sons to arrive. They apparently were about to tear the Balrogs a new one, since the Big Fiery Guys all ran away. > [@](#): > > If the battle takes place in a galaxy far, far away, we’re outside Arda and have to discount the powers of any being tied to the circles of the world. Actually no. The Maiar and Valar have more power outside of Arda; they can rewrite the laws of nature. And Elves and Dwarves don’t lose strength away from Arda. ---
**Author:** ![Humble\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/47e85d/32.png) [@Humble\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Humble_Servant)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-vs-the-sith/305174/32 "2005-05-25T16:07:09Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > Actually no. The Maiar and Valar have more power outside of Arda; they can rewrite the laws of nature. And Elves and Dwarves don’t lose strength away from Arda. Well, seeing as we are dealing speculatively with speculative battles between fictional characters in speculative situations, what I said is pure speculation.[sub]“Speculation” is one of those words that gets silly when you say it lots–I like to do it as “speckleation.”[/sub] Nonetheless, here’s my logic: yes, the Ainur existed outside Arda with Iluvatar and took part in the music. Iluvatar then kinda surprised them all by taking the music and making it real, creating the actual physical Arda. Some of the Ainur (which includes the Valar and Maiar outside Arda), became enamoured of Arda and got permission to enter into it, to bind themselves to Arda for Arda’s duration. Therefore, the Valar and Maiar as such (as Valar and Maiar, not Ainur) cannot exist outside Arda while Arda endures, absent Iluvatar’s intervention (in which case all bets are off). For instance, if Tulkas got really bored with the non-intervention policies of the 4th Age and decided he had a hankerin’ to go kick some Sith butt, he could only do so in disobedience to Iluvatar, in which case I’d have serious reservations about his power source. Elves likewise cannot leave Arda (and anyway they’d pine), and I’d even venture to guess that the dwarves might be rather powerless out of contact with the earth from which Aule made them. Even Bombadil has no power, IMHO, outside of his particular place. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-vs-the-sith/305174/33 "2005-05-25T17:29:37Z")
> [@LostCause](#): > > Evil thoughts…unable to resist! > > “Secret Servant of the Force, I am! Lightsaber of Arnor,I wield! The Dark Flame avail you not, Udun Flame! Back to the shadow go you! Pass, you shall not!” Excellent! Please take a bow! ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-vs-the-sith/305174/34 "2005-05-25T17:52:44Z")
Boba Fett vs. Peregrin Took Pippin would win – he would accidentally knock Boba down a well or off a ledge in Moria, probably into the Balrog’s lair, and that would be that. ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-vs-the-sith/305174/35 "2005-05-25T18:02:04Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Sorry…I didn’t realize the link to it had broken. [Here’s](http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=9868) one that’s still working. Thank you so very much. 🙂 WRS ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-vs-the-sith/305174/36 "2005-05-25T20:31:53Z")
Okay, for fun’s sake, and so we can actually have interaction, let’s assume that Arda grows and becomes the Galaxy, so Elves and Orcs and others can be carousing around various planets and not just confined to the area of ME and Valinor and stuff. Hey, it’s all fantasy anyways, right? Now, I say we also throw away midichlorians, because like them not I do. Instead, I’m going to stick with the premise that Yoda threw out for us in ESB, that “The Force, everywhere it is. Life creates it…” So, Rings of Power, drawing on the physical world (galaxy) and the powers within them versus those schooled in using The Force and the strength of life becomes a struggle among equals, more or less. NOW… Sauron vs a Sith Lord becomes a cool battle. Which power runs out first? Which power is more easily weilded in battle situations? Which power allows for more allies or acolytes? Yes, yes… ---
**Author:** ![pinkfreud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pinkfreud/32/17603_2.png) [@pinkfreud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkfreud)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-vs-the-sith/305174/37 "2005-05-25T21:12:59Z")
I bet J.R.R. Tolkien, in his youth, could have kicked George Lucas’s flabby Californian butt anytime. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-vs-the-sith/305174/38 "2005-05-25T23:12:05Z")
> [@pinkfreud](#): > > I bet J.R.R. Tolkien, in his youth, could have kicked George Lucas’s flabby Californian butt anytime. Well, since JRRT’s youth was spent in part fighting Germans in WW I in the trenches, I can get behind that concept. ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2005, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-vs-the-sith/305174/39 "2005-05-26T06:23:54Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > orld (galaxy) and the powers within them versus those schooled in using The Force and the strength of life becomes a struggle among equals, more or less. > Yes, yes… You are giving me so many evil thoughts, you know… **Elrond:** The Ring cannot be destroyed,Luke, Son of Skywalker, by any craft that we here possess (even lightsabers). The Ring was made in the reactor of the Death Star. Only there can it be unmade. It must be taken deep into the Empire and cast back into the fiery forge from whence it came. One of you must do this. **Hans Solo:** One does not simply fly into the Death Star… ---
**Author:** ![Yumblie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/76d3ee/32.png) [@Yumblie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yumblie)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2005, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-vs-the-sith/305174/40 "2005-05-27T06:31:29Z")
Lando: I’m glad you’re here with me, strange alien co-pilot, here at the end of all things. Strange Alien Co-pilot: Hub hub hub! _back on Endor_ Han: The Ewoks! The Ewoks are coming! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-vs-the-sith/305174.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sauron-vs-the-sith/305174.md?page=3)