# Sauron's Ring to Mt. Doom...via artillery? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 11, 2007, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saurons-ring-to-mt-doom-via-artillery/422307 "2007-10-11T03:04:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saurons-ring-to-mt-doom-via-artillery/422307/1 "2007-10-11T03:04:20Z")
Well, this one’s about three or four years late. But hey, what the hell. (And…since it deals primarily with geology/geography and military engineering I’m taking a gamble in putting this one in GQ instead of Cafe Society. It probably won’t last.) Anyway, awhile back, we’ve had discussions about the practicality of delivering Tolkien’s One Ring to destruction in Mt. Doom via air drop (using giant eagles, specifically). But I can’t help thinking of the problem from a different angle…artillery. And to be as geeky as possible, real-world artillery. That is, what’s the minimum level of range and accuracy you’d need to fire a shell containing the ring from a site in the free lands of Middle Earth straight down the throat of [Mt. Doom](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mt_doom)? Could you do it with the [Paris Gun](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Gun)? Or, failing artillery altogether…how about a tactical ballistic missile, like a [Scud](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scud)? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saurons-ring-to-mt-doom-via-artillery/422307/2 "2007-10-11T03:12:44Z")
1st Question, [have you seen this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgCJMfsdO5s)? If you are using modern weapons, why not just a stealth fighter and a smart bomb? As far as artillery, you are trying to hit a fairly small target, the Paris Gun had little accuracy. You could land it within a mile of the opening of Mt Doom, but it would be dumb luck if it went in. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saurons-ring-to-mt-doom-via-artillery/422307/3 "2007-10-11T04:23:47Z")
I think any 155mm artillery in the US inventory can fire the [Excalibur](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM982_Excalibur), a GPS guided shell. That gives you a 50% chance of landing the shell within 10 meters (perhaps less) of the target from a range of 25 km to 40 km. That’s nearly 25 miles for the metric impaired. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saurons-ring-to-mt-doom-via-artillery/422307/4 "2007-10-11T04:38:40Z")
So, artillery wise, you need to cross almost the entire Plain of Gorgoroth without being caught to fire your Howitzer. Nope, once again, you gotta nuke the site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure. Tris ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saurons-ring-to-mt-doom-via-artillery/422307/5 "2007-10-11T12:32:40Z")
[QUOTE=Triskadecamus] So, artillery wise, you need to cross almost the entire Plain of Gorgoroth without being caught to fire your Howitzer. Nope, once again, you gotta nuke the site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure. Tris [/QUOTE] Now there is a good question, could “The One Ring” survive a nuclear bomb. I don’t agree, but some people have claimed “The One Ring” is a metaphor for the “Atomic Bomb” just to make this more interesting. I would think, that not even the magic of the “The One Ring” could survive being in ground zero of an atomic bomb. As I said though, one stealth fighter and one smart bomb and the package would be delivered with ease. All the Nazgul could do is get their mounts blown out from under them before they knew what was happening. I am surprised we are still in GQ. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saurons-ring-to-mt-doom-via-artillery/422307/6 "2007-10-11T13:22:50Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] As I said though, one stealth fighter and one smart bomb and the package would be delivered with ease. All the Nazgul could do is get their mounts blown out from under them before they knew what was happening. I am surprised we are still in GQ. [/QUOTE] Quick before this gets moved… As I recall, Gulf War I demonstrated the precision of laser-painted guided bombs to go down air shafts. Assuming an artillery piece with sufficient range (and I have no idea whether a 30km range is sufficient): Mount the targeting laser on a giant eagle, have the eagle fly at very high altitude over Mt Doom and illuminate the volcano mouth with the laser, then shoot the projectile over Mt Doom and let the guidance system work its technological magic. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saurons-ring-to-mt-doom-via-artillery/422307/7 "2007-10-11T14:51:35Z")
How about a Predator drone? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saurons-ring-to-mt-doom-via-artillery/422307/8 "2007-10-11T15:06:36Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] How about a Predator drone? [/QUOTE] I think today, we probably have many methods and gadgets to do it with. I just don’t think WWI or even WWII artillery was up to the task. Actually, I am sure they were not. Back to the Nuclear blast, Tolkien rigged it so that the Ring needed to be delivered back to Mount Doom. Apparently, not any volcano would do. So despite the unbelievable destructive power and heat of a nuclear blast, there is probably wiggle room to say that even this would not destroy the ring due to Magic. Magic can supersede physics and commonsense. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saurons-ring-to-mt-doom-via-artillery/422307/9 "2007-10-11T15:23:51Z")
[QUOTE=Ravenman] I think any 155mm artillery in the US inventory can fire the [Excalibur](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM982_Excalibur), a GPS guided shell. That gives you a 50% chance of landing the shell within 10 meters (perhaps less) of the target from a range of 25 km to 40 km. That’s nearly 25 miles for the metric impaired. [/QUOTE] Yeah, but then you’re relying on a modern artillery piece plus a battery of orbiting satellites. Is that in the spirit of the OP? I’m not sure. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saurons-ring-to-mt-doom-via-artillery/422307/10 "2007-10-11T18:57:51Z")
Wouldn’t it have been easier still if they had let Superman take care of it? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saurons-ring-to-mt-doom-via-artillery/422307/11 "2007-10-11T19:10:21Z")
[QUOTE=sqweels] Wouldn’t it have been easier still if they had let Superman take care of it? :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] That is the problem with threads like this. However, the Op had a specifically factual question about artillery that had a definite answer. Everything after that is “what ifs” and “fun conjecture”. The actual question was answered. The Mods have left this thread here. Jim ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saurons-ring-to-mt-doom-via-artillery/422307/12 "2007-10-11T19:14:37Z")
All of your answers can be found [here](http://www.surelyyourenotserious.com/blog/index.php?p=125) (Jim’s previous site shows part of this.) ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saurons-ring-to-mt-doom-via-artillery/422307/13 "2007-10-11T19:24:25Z")
The [Copperhead](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M712_Copperhead) could drop down the hatch of a moving tank 10 miles away. That’ll fix your wagon, little lady. Assuming you can get it into position. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saurons-ring-to-mt-doom-via-artillery/422307/14 "2007-10-11T19:46:44Z")
It would have to be quite a trajectory wouldn’t it to actually go down the shaft of Mt. Doom and into the lava, would something that high would be more of a job for a mortar than a plain old gun? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saurons-ring-to-mt-doom-via-artillery/422307/15 "2007-10-11T19:54:06Z")
That reminds me of a thread on another forum, about what would happen if you replaced the Fellowship with the SG1 team from _Stargate : SG 1_. > [@](#): > > _Scene: Mount Doom. The camera pans towards a small black dot._ > > _the camera zooms in to the dot, revealing it to be a Tomahawk cruise missile with a person duct-taped to it_ > > _it zooms in even further, revealing it to be a blindfolded Gollum_ > > Gollum: “My preciousssss… we are united at lasssssst..” > > _the blindfold falls off and Gollum looks at the rapidly closing Mount Doom_ > > Gollum: “Oh ssssssshittttt…” > > _the camera switches to a black-and-white view of the Tomahawk’s nose camera_ > > _the missile impacts. Fade out to black. Cut to a scene of the Shire, where SG-1 is watching a nuclear fireball over the horizon via drone_ > > O’Neil: “Lovely fireworks, aren’t they?” ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saurons-ring-to-mt-doom-via-artillery/422307/16 "2007-10-11T19:57:53Z")
[QUOTE=Triskadecamus] So, artillery wise, you need to cross almost the entire Plain of Gorgoroth without being caught to fire your Howitzer. Nope, once again, you gotta nuke the site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure. Tris [/QUOTE] Not with 10,000 men and 100 self-propelled armoured howitzers could you do this…it is folly! okay, maybe with 200 self-propelled armoured howitzers. And we wouldn’t even need to destroy the ring. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saurons-ring-to-mt-doom-via-artillery/422307/17 "2007-10-11T20:03:10Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] That reminds me of a thread on another forum, about what would happen if you replaced the Fellowship with the SG1 team from _Stargate : SG 1_. [/QUOTE] That’s classic, man. 😛 If you replaced the Fellowship with the X-Men, it’d be even quicker. Hell; Nightcrawler’s the only one who would even have to get out of his seat. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saurons-ring-to-mt-doom-via-artillery/422307/18 "2007-10-11T21:46:10Z")
[QUOTE=Triskadecamus] So, artillery wise, you need to cross almost the entire Plain of Gorgoroth without being caught to fire your Howitzer. [/QUOTE] See, this is EXACTLY the kind of geographic information that’s so desperately needed for a project like this. Well, I actually managed to find a map of Middle Earth that had a scale marker, which [indicates that it’s at least 70 miles](http://www.geocities.com/puayc/articles/tokien/middle_earth_map.jpg) from free territory to Mt. Doom, which rules out a lot of conventional artillery (though you might be able to reach it with a [rocket-boosted _Dora_ shell](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav), or a [saboted 16" gun](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_HARP)). This leads back to the next question: required accuracy. I’d say a weapon would have to have a [CEP](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_Error_Probable) a fair bit smaller than the volcanic crater itself it be worth risking a ballistic ring delivery (BRD™). But how big a target are we aiming at, exactly? Is there any canon information about how wide the crater of Mt. Doom is, or would we have to guesstimate? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saurons-ring-to-mt-doom-via-artillery/422307/19 "2007-10-11T22:08:16Z")
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp] That’s classic, man. 😛 If you replaced the Fellowship with the X-Men, it’d be even quicker. Hell; Nightcrawler’s the only one who would even have to get out of his seat. 😃 [/QUOTE] Not quite; he can only bamf so far, and he’d need support to get close enough to do it in one shot, or even a series of jumps. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2007, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saurons-ring-to-mt-doom-via-artillery/422307/20 "2007-10-11T23:00:44Z")
The SDMB Orbital Goat Cannon might be up to the task! God, I _ **love** _ the Orbital Goat Cannon! _It smells like victory!!!_ Also, it smells like goats. But, I digress. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saurons-ring-to-mt-doom-via-artillery/422307.md?page=2)