# Save the cows, kill the suspects. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 29, 2002, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-cows-kill-the-suspects/134390 "2002-10-29T12:35:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2002, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-cows-kill-the-suspects/134390/21 "2002-10-29T21:27:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Can I ask how long ago have you been here? July/August 1996 > [@](#): > > Anyway, as you clarified, your point was not to discuss India but to discuss (or rant about) religious fanaticism. I’m totally with you there, and I don’t think our position on India’s problems is too different either. I just wanted to point out that there was another side, another significant group of Indian people, which not many people see. Granted. I don’t wish to insult your country, but for a spoiled American, India’s poverty is just astounding. I’ve seen poverty elsewhere–in Central America, Thailand, and the Philippines–but the size of India’s problems is mind-boggling. And yes, you’re quite right; ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2002, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-cows-kill-the-suspects/134390/22 "2002-10-29T21:28:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Can I ask how long ago have you been here? July/August 1996 > [@](#): > > Anyway, as you clarified, your point was not to discuss India but to discuss (or rant about) religious fanaticism. I’m totally with you there, and I don’t think our position on India’s problems is too different either. I just wanted to point out that there was another side, another significant group of Indian people, which not many people see. Granted. I don’t wish to insult your country, but for a spoiled American, India’s poverty is just astounding. I’ve seen poverty elsewhere–in Central America, Thailand, and the Philippines–but the size of India’s problems is mind-boggling. And yes, you’re quite right; there’s ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2002, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-cows-kill-the-suspects/134390/23 "2002-10-29T21:29:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Can I ask how long ago have you been here? July/August 1996 > [@](#): > > Anyway, as you clarified, your point was not to discuss India but to discuss (or rant about) religious fanaticism. I’m totally with you there, and I don’t think our position on India’s problems is too different either. I just wanted to point out that there was another side, another significant group of Indian people, which not many people see. Granted. I don’t wish to insult your country, but for a spoiled American, India’s poverty is just astounding. I’ve seen poverty elsewhere–in Central America, Thailand, and the Philippines–but the size of India’s problems is mind-boggling. And yes, you’re quite right; Inidia’s treasures and ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2002, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-cows-kill-the-suspects/134390/24 "2002-10-29T21:29:22Z")
> [@](#): > > Can I ask how long ago have you been here? July/August 1996 > [@](#): > > Anyway, as you clarified, your point was not to discuss India but to discuss (or rant about) religious fanaticism. I’m totally with you there, and I don’t think our position on India’s problems is too different either. I just wanted to point out that there was another side, another significant group of Indian people, which not many people see. Granted. I don’t wish to insult your country, but for a spoiled American, India’s poverty is just astounding. I’ve seen poverty elsewhere–in Central America, Thailand, and the Philippines–but the size of India’s problems is mind-boggling. And yes, you’re quite right; Inidia’s treasures and its ---
**Author:** ![sc913](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@sc913](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sc913)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2002, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-cows-kill-the-suspects/134390/25 "2002-10-29T22:05:19Z")
Wow, what happened there? I know you weren’t being insulting. I can understand how the poverty can seem astounding for a western tourist, and it’s definitely not a result of you being spoiled. The poverty here _is_ astounding, because of the sheer number of poor people. It’s just that because of that, people miss the fact that that’s not the complete picture. Unfortunately, there are no easy solutions to this problem. ☹ I’m sorry about the hijack. I’m also glad you liked Fatehpur Sikri. I was there for the first time last year, and I loved it too. If you every visit again, I’ll be happy to show you around Mumbai 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dragonblink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Dragonblink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragonblink)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2002, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-cows-kill-the-suspects/134390/26 "2002-10-29T22:56:41Z")
[hijack] A nonuple post? Is that a record? [/hijack] I really wish there were something we could do about the tendency of fanatics to use religion for hate and violence rather than for understanding and peace. Unfortunately, I don’t see that kinda stuff going away anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2002, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-cows-kill-the-suspects/134390/27 "2002-10-29T23:48:42Z")
Well, maybe nobody’s been murdered yet for desecrating the American flag; however, someone has been murdered for a perceived violation of the murderer’s faith. At least that appears to be what the rationale was for the morons who killed Shepherd (sp?). Heck, Shepherd didn’t even have to actually desecrate anything and he still got killed just for being who he was. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-cows-kill-the-suspects/134390/28 "2002-10-30T01:45:31Z")
> [@](#): > > …but you can guarantee that in practice, the common thread that runs through every religion is cruelty, bigotry, and persecution of dissenters or infidels. Yeah. You really need to watch those Unitarians. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-cows-kill-the-suspects/134390/29 "2002-10-30T01:49:00Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by gobear_ > IMO, all religion is wicked. People may erect cathedrals, temples, or mosques; they may declare that their god gave them a code of benevolence and brotherhood; but you can guarantee that in practice, the common thread that runs through every religion is cruelty, bigotry, and persecution of dissenters or infidels. I disagree. I’m not big on religion myself, but I don’t think it’s wicked, just irrelevant. Hinduism didn’t turn these guys into murderers, it just provided a convenient pretext for the hate that was already in their hearts. If they hadn’t been religious, or if they had belonged to a different religion, they might have picked different targets. But they wouldn’t have been any wiser, less violent, or more compassionate. In my experience, people choose their beliefs to suit their own preconceived notions of right and wrong. The parts of their beliefs that contradict their preconceived notions are ignored or twisted to fit what the believer wants to believe. This cuts both ways, btw. I don’t think that if **Polycarp** were a Secular Humanist he would be any less of a good person than he is as a devoted Christian. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-cows-kill-the-suspects/134390/30 "2002-10-30T02:16:43Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t think that if Polycarp were a Secular Humanist he would be any less of a good person than he is as a devoted Christian. And **Polycarp** would agree with you, not me. Nevertheless, it seems to me that religion, which ought to ennoble its adherents, too often serves as a vheicle for their hate. Mine is a minority opinion, but that’s to be expected. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-cows-kill-the-suspects/134390/31 "2002-10-30T02:40:06Z")
It’s a vehicle for their hate, sure. But if your car breaks down, you don’t just stay home, you call a cab. Someone who kills because of religion is just as likely to kill because of nationalism, or sexism, or for whatever other excuse happens by. Religion is just the pretext, not the motivator. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-cows-kill-the-suspects/134390/32 "2002-10-30T03:46:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > This is yet another argument for the abolition of religion. \*\* To follow that logic, there is an argument for abolishing civilization. Wherever people congregate for interdependance, morality and its laws and enforcement will follow. If religion was the sole culprit in man’s inhumanity to man, I offer in rebuttal the American practice of hanging horse thieves and cattle rustlers that until recently was quite common. I cannot see a religious basis in this case. btw I have no cites, only repeating what I’ve learned from Hoolywood films and television. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-cows-kill-the-suspects/134390.md?page=1)