# Save the guns law: What's the point? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 4, 2013, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-guns-law-whats-the-point/668016 "2013-09-04T19:15:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-guns-law-whats-the-point/668016/41 "2013-09-05T03:21:09Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > In the case of stolen guns that are turned in and then purchased by the original lawful owner, how is that a bad thing? Because putting them in the hands of lawful owners is the same as putting them in the hands of criminals, since criminals can simply steal them. And that’s assuming that the criminals don’t just buy the guns themselves. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-guns-law-whats-the-point/668016/42 "2013-09-05T03:24:53Z")
> [@Bob\_Blaylock](#): > > About equal to the presumption that these “buybacks” are taking guns out of the hands of criminals in the first place. I don’t presume that at all. I think buy backs are a stupid waste of money and resources and just a way for the ninnies to feel good about themselves for doing something when in reality what they’ve done is worthless. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-guns-law-whats-the-point/668016/43 "2013-09-05T03:42:12Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Because putting them in the hands of lawful owners is the same as putting them in the hands of criminals, since criminals can simply steal them. Yup. One of my best friends was murdered with a handgun burgled from someone’s house. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-guns-law-whats-the-point/668016/44 "2013-09-05T04:24:10Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > More guns out there means more opportunities for theft and crimes of passion. Not that I think that means less guns are better \* per se\*, but it seems pretty obvious that at least some of the guns that are resold will eventually make it into the hands of criminals. More guns than would have been the case had the guns simply been destroyed. > . More guns out there means more opportunities for self defense and other life saving activities. Not that I think that means more guns are better per se, but it seems pretty obvious that at least some of the guns that are resold will eventually be used for self defense. More instances of people saving lives that would have been the case had the guns simply been destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-guns-law-whats-the-point/668016/45 "2013-09-05T11:41:54Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > More guns out there means more opportunities for theft and crimes of passion. Not that I think that means less guns are better \* per se\*, but it seems pretty obvious that at least some of the guns that are resold will eventually make it into the hands of criminals. More guns than would have been the case had the guns simply been destroyed. > > Now would this make up for the increased number of guns in the hands of the law abiding? I am not sure. What I am sure of is that buying guns only to just resell them is the height of silliness. > [@Bone](#): > > More guns out there means more opportunities for self defense and other life saving activities. Not that I think that means more guns are better per se, but it seems pretty obvious that at least some of the guns that are resold will eventually be used for self defense. More instances of people saving lives that would have been the case had the guns simply been destroyed. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-guns-law-whats-the-point/668016/46 "2013-09-05T12:59:24Z")
I still have this vision of Republican schoolchildren singing “Every gun is sacred, every gun is great, when a gun is wasted, God gets quite irate…” It’s pure gun fetishism. There isn’t any gun shortage, destroying the used guns means slightly fewer guns available to the public, which of course includes criminals. So destroying them makes it marginally harder to get guns, which of course makes us all safter. But the gun fetishists froth at the mouth at the notion of a gun being melted down, so the legislatures that they own will happily pass gun protection laws while at the same time ignoring actual public needs. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-guns-law-whats-the-point/668016/47 "2013-09-05T15:58:04Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > It’s pure gun fetishism. There isn’t any gun shortage, destroying the used guns means slightly fewer guns available to the public, which of course includes criminals. So destroying them makes it marginally harder to get guns, which of course makes us all safter. But the gun fetishists froth at the mouth at the notion of a gun being melted down, so the legislatures that they own will happily pass gun protection laws while at the same time ignoring actual public needs. It’s pure hoplophobia. There isn’t any excess supply of guns. Reselling used guns means slightly increased supply of guns available to the public, which includes lower income folks who could benefit from lower priced firearms. So reselling them makes it marginally easier to acquire guns, which of course makes us all safter (sic). But the hoplophobes froth at the mouth at the notion of a gun existing anywhere at any time, so the legislatures that they own will happily spend money to purchase resellable goods only to destroy them, virtually burning taxpayer money, while at the same time ignoring the actual demand to purchase these firearms. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-guns-law-whats-the-point/668016/48 "2013-09-05T16:06:36Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > It’s pure hoplophobia. Yay! I learned a new word today! Proud to be a hoplophobe. Had it not been for you, I would have thought hoplophobia was a fear of one-legged people. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-guns-law-whats-the-point/668016/49 "2013-09-05T16:12:05Z")
A more accurate term might be “gettingkilledophobe”. And it isn’t a disorder. ---
**Author:** ![Sanity\_Challenged](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de053/32.png) [@Sanity\_Challenged](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sanity_Challenged)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-guns-law-whats-the-point/668016/50 "2013-09-05T16:45:45Z")
Save the Guns laws are funky extremism fighting funky extremism. Recent gun buyback programs have accomplished nothing of value to the community. Pulling a rusty old handgun that hasn’t been touched in years out of a shoebox in the attic and turning it in for $50 doesn’t make the community any safer. They are used in this country as a purely political statement: to demonize firearms and to promote the local mayor as being tough on guns. The dirty part of this is that it is done at taxpayers’ expense. My tax money should not be used in a campaign to change my thinking on politically-charged issues, or to provide the incumbent elected officials with campaign slogans for the next election cycle. Save the Gun laws don’t accomplish much practical either, except to take away some of the showmanship of government-sponsored gun buybacks. Running a firearm recycling operation just doesn’t paint the same tough-on-guns picture that destroying firearms does, and makes it harder for officials to pretend that they are accomplishing something valuable. The laws only affect government-sponsored buybacks, so if Mayor Hateagun wants to portray himself as being tough on guns or if private citizens feel that buybacks somehow actually accomplish something, they can put their money where their mouths are and put together a good ol’ fashioned buy-'em-and-burn-'em buyback with their own funds. Their first amendment rights to make a political statement are preserved, but they won’t be funded by taxpayers receiving no meaningful return on their dollar. Just as it should be. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-guns-law-whats-the-point/668016/51 "2013-09-05T16:59:38Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I still have this vision of Republican schoolchildren singing “Every gun is sacred, every gun is great, when a gun is wasted, God gets quite irate…” > > It’s pure gun fetishism. There isn’t any gun shortage, destroying the used guns means slightly fewer guns available to the public, which of course includes criminals. So destroying them makes it marginally harder to get guns, which of course makes us all safter. But the gun fetishists froth at the mouth at the notion of a gun being melted down, so the legislatures that they own will happily pass gun protection laws while at the same time ignoring actual public needs. It’s stunning how much ignorance is packed into this relatively short post. If it were a parody, it would be quite impressive. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-guns-law-whats-the-point/668016/52 "2013-09-05T17:01:03Z")
By the way, the answer the OP is looking for was answered completely in the first two posts of the thread. You might as well ask for this to be closed. Now it’s going to just be four pages of a few anti gun posters hysterical with fear of guns with the rest of us rolling our eyes at them. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-guns-law-whats-the-point/668016/53 "2013-09-05T17:05:13Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It isn’t only about criminals, yanno - there are plenty of deaths caused by “law-abiding citizens”, and there are plenty of people who know and fear that and want to get the damn things out of their homes before something tragic happens. A police buyback program is a fine way to do that, especially if those guns cannot get back in circulation. I’ll believe that when I see Asbestos and DDT buy back programs. ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-guns-law-whats-the-point/668016/54 "2013-09-05T17:05:13Z")
> [@Sanity\_Challenged](#): > > Pulling a rusty old handgun that hasn’t been touched in years out of a shoebox in the attic and turning it in for $50 doesn’t make the community any safer. That’s an interesting point. Is it possible that buy backs are worse than doing nothing when paired re-sales? IOW, let’s assume that the vast majority of guns that are turned in are either non-functional or just gathering dust. The non-functional ones will probably get destroyed anyway, but the others, if you’re going to resell them, are likely to be bought by someone who actually wants a gun and will use it. If you’re a gun advocate, you may say ‘great,’ at least until you stop to think that most people know jack about gun safety let alone how to properly use and maintain a firearm. And I doubt that’s much of a consideration when the guns are sold beyond checking to see if someone is licensed. So depending on what the point of buybacks is in the first place, having re-sales may be worse than futile but actually counterproductive. It would be nice if someone had some hard statistics on the parameters of buybacks and sales like the types of guns, prices and the like. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-guns-law-whats-the-point/668016/55 "2013-09-05T18:04:25Z")
> [@deltasigma](#): > > IOW, let’s assume that the vast majority of guns that are turned in are either non-functional or just gathering dust. That’s a good assumption. Why else turn in a gun for such a small amount of money? These things are generally “cash for clunkers”. > [@](#): > > If you’re a gun advocate, you may say ‘great,’ at least until you stop to think that most people know jack about gun safety let alone how to properly use and maintain a firearm. And I doubt that’s much of a consideration when the guns are sold beyond checking to see if someone is licensed. What are you trying to say here? What steps “beyond” seeing if someone is licensed should be done when selling guns from a buyback program? Why should you even check if the person is licensed? Here in NH the only license you need is a drivers license. Once you prove you live in the state you are good to buy a long gun. Do you have a cite that most gun owners don’t know how to “properly use” (whatever that means) or maintain their guns? This is just more of the same. Guns = scary. You don’t understand them so no one must be able to. Let’s get rid of these scary things! > [@](#): > > So depending on what the point of buybacks is in the first place, having re-sales may be worse than futile but actually counterproductive. It would be nice if someone had some hard statistics on the parameters of buybacks and sales like the types of guns, prices and the like. Yes, it would be nice if there was any sort of evidence whatsoever that gun buyback programs do anything at all. They are feel good measures that accomplish nothing and waste taxpayer dollars. ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-guns-law-whats-the-point/668016/56 "2013-09-05T18:13:07Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > What are you trying to say here? What steps “beyond” seeing if someone is licensed should be done when selling guns from a buyback program? Why should you even check if the person is licensed? Here in NH the only license you need is a drivers license. Once you prove you live in the state you are good to buy a long gun. Well, this get’s back to where these buybacks are normally conducted - the communities at whom they’re normally directed - doesn’t it? My impression is that it’s normally done in poor urban communities, but I could be wrong about that. Do you have any data on that issue? I know what you’re getting at though. If you take a geographically random sample, i.e., throw darts a map of the US and pick the closest person to that dart, my guess is that more often than not the person you find will know how to use a gun. I’m originally from the deep South and hunting is just part of the landscape there so you learn about these things as a toddler - at least I did (sometimes the hard way). But if buybacks really are targeted to certain communities, that isn’t necessarily a valid point. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-guns-law-whats-the-point/668016/57 "2013-09-05T18:13:45Z")
Seems the point is once again paranoia by the gun lobby ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-guns-law-whats-the-point/668016/58 "2013-09-05T18:15:30Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Sometimes member of the public later turn into criminals. In fact, all criminals were once law abiding citizens. What percentage of gun murders do you think are committed by previously law abiding citizens? That is people who are allowed to possess a gun in the first place? > [@pkbites](#): > > [Polls](http://www.policeone.com/Gun-Legislation-Law-Enforcement/articles/6183787-PoliceOnes-Gun-Control-Survey-11-key-lessons-from-officers-perspectives/) routinely show street cops oppose gun control measures. Isn’t that survey mostly about the stupidity of an AWB (or really any ban). Most cops I know support gun control along the lines of licensing/training requirements and are not averse to gun registration, better enforcement of gun laws. They are against just against the stupid things like gun bans (and gun buybacks). But they seem to support all sorts of gun control to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. > [@jasg](#): > > Perhaps the police should be selling the drugs they confiscate as well. Save some tax money and keep the demand down so less money flows into the coffers of the cartels. Yeah because guns are intrinsically harmful and can’t really be used for good.:rolleyes: > [@JXJohns](#): > > In my state, confiscated guns are sold at auction annually. They usually bring retail or higher prices which is crazy. I feel confident that is not a local phenomenon. The online auctions seem to result in prices well below retail. Of course you need an FFL to bid and the guns are frequently cheap guns to begin with but I have not noticed prices above retail. > [@Sanity\_Challenged](#): > > Save the Guns laws are funky extremism fighting funky extremism. Well thats it in a nutshell. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-guns-law-whats-the-point/668016/59 "2013-09-05T18:17:23Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > I’ll believe that when I see Asbestos and DDT buy back programs. If there had been no intensive, and successful, government efforts to eliminate or contain asbestos so it can do no more harm, and to ban DDT outright so it too can do no more harm, and if there were no asbestos-fetish and DDT-fetish lobbies opposing those efforts, you \*might \*then have a point. :dubious: But most of us are condemned to live out our dreary lives in the real world, sadly. > [@Debaser](#): > > Guns = scary. You don’t understand them so no one must be able to. Let’s get rid of these scary things! Isn’t the problem more about some people dismissing or accepting the danger as being less important than the feeling of power they give? The lack of understanding may not be where you think it is. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-guns-law-whats-the-point/668016/60 "2013-09-05T19:03:13Z")
It’s a really simple matter; why all the confusion? Holy articles need to be handled reverently. American flags are not destroyed unless damaged, then they are burned ceremoniously. Korans, if damaged, are buried with a prayer. To destroy an American handgun given to us by the Grace of God’s Second Commandment would be sacrilegious beyond words. If the real purpose were to profit from seized goods, why not resale confiscated marijuana? (Or at least sell tickets to witness the incineration downwind.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-guns-law-whats-the-point/668016.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/save-the-guns-law-whats-the-point/668016.md?page=4)