# Saving Private Ryan and the Oscars **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 20, 2005, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-and-the-oscars/331893 "2005-11-20T06:36:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![marymargaret](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@marymargaret](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marymargaret)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-and-the-oscars/331893/141 "2005-11-22T12:18:20Z")
Didn’t Miramax just make an artform out of self-hype? ---
**Author:** ![Casey1505](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@Casey1505](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casey1505)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-and-the-oscars/331893/142 "2005-11-22T13:56:35Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > OK, it appears to be “remarks” rather than a speech, but here you go: [Second one down](http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Dwight_D._Eisenhower) Thank you, sir. Very interesting. Struck me as funny, though, how the “I have full confidence in your courage…” quote is followed by an unused “in case of failure” announcement. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-and-the-oscars/331893/143 "2005-11-22T14:45:07Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > This wasn’t just a case of the 101st not being linked up. Ryan was part of a mixed unit at the time, so his official unit could have been fully re-integrated even if the company he was with was still effectively isolated. They had been ordered to remain with the bridge until they were relieved, remember. The connection between the beach assault troops and the airborne at Utah Beach was complete[within just a couple of days.](http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/utah_beach.htm). It had to be. Airborne troops can’t carry much with them in the war of supplies and resupply by air drop and glider is uncertain. > [@](#): > > By midday, the men of the US 4th Infantry had met up with the men from the 101st Airborne unit. German opposition was swiftly dealt with. By the end of the day, the Americans had advanced about four miles inland and they were about one mile from the 82nd at St. Mère-Eglise… Actually most of the airborne units were mixed up in that they were scrambled because of inaccuracy in the air drops in bad weather at night. Ryan’s unit could have been composed of people from various companies, battalions and regiments but all would have been 101st. In the case of [this particular soldier](http://carlisle-www.army.mil/usamhi/Sampler/miller/0000.htm) the dates on the telegram indicate it took almost three weeks. Yes, I am astounded that the brothers could have been killed on D-Day, that the army would find out about it and that there was a surviving brother; that a decision would be made to withdraw the surviving brother; that the word would be passed down the chain of command to the forces in France and an operation planned in the time between the landings and the full integration of the airborne units into the main assault force. I wrote earlier that a certain amount of suspension of disbelief is needed to enjoy any theatrical production. This one required so much such suspension that I simply couldn’t get into SPR as anything other than just another movie. And, as I said, the plot after the beach scenes was reminiscent to me of many westerns. ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-and-the-oscars/331893/144 "2005-11-22T15:06:57Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > I really can’t think of a (serious) movie where the portrayal of German soldiers was less stroeotypical. Try [Stallingrad](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108211/). Granted it is a German film, but Lord is it ever the most Anti war film I’ve seen. I think the problem I have with SPR Aside from the 20 minutes is that it is a very American film. There is a very distinct way Wars are portrayed in American films with the possible exception of Vietnam. It isn’t exactly rah rah but there is a definte inability to face any defeat. Patton (the film) probably said it best “Americans like winners…” SPR could have ended with them losing the bridge and still have Ryan head home but that last stand had to be shown and the good guys had to win. It is rare, aside from Vietnam flicks, to find a US war film that doesn’t end in victory. It’s not really a criticism more of an observation. What did annoy me, however, was that this film seemed to say that only America could win the war. Hell only America was in the war. The only time allies are mentioned is when Hanks and Ted Danson are knocking “Monty” and with their great warrior wisdom they plot out the exact path the war should go. It is as if even the lowest American officers on the field knew better than any forigen General. Sheesh. As pointed out the ending is a shot of the US Flag (God bless America indeed) ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-and-the-oscars/331893/145 "2005-11-22T17:01:19Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > The only horrors of war that were portrayed, were the simple bloodiness of the dying soldiers, and those horrors were ultimately held up to be a patriotic sacrifice. I disagree. We see instances of soldiers from both sides shooting surrendering opponents. I don’t see how that glorifies war or ennobles the soldiers. It seems to me that the message of the movie is: War is evil, but it is sometimes a _necessary_ evil; we should appreciate and remember the sacrifices made by WW II veterans. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-and-the-oscars/331893/146 "2005-11-22T17:12:32Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > This is the disingenuity I’m picking up on. What do you think the word “propaganda” means? Allow me to use a little playlet to demonstrate: > > A: I like that work of art. > B: That work of art is bald propaganda. > > If it predictable that A will take offense, because B’s statement contains the implication that A likes the work of art because A was manipulated into doing so? And since it’s a “bald” work of propaganda, isn’t the implication that A was dumb enough to fall for a fairly obvious bit of manipulation? > > If _can’t_ recognize that A’s reaction is a normal one, then there isn’t really any point continuing. Considering that I was the one who was arguing with **lissener** about this very topic in the other thread he mentioned (I assume, anyway. You forgot to include the actual link, **lissener** ) I feel I should adress this. Bushwah. Sorry, but anyone taking a negative opinion about a movie they liked as a negative opinion about themselves has got some serious problems. **lissener** found the movie to be “the baldest propaganda.” I found it to be decently filmed, but overly sentimental and poorly written. **RikWriter** found it to be one of the greatest war movies ever made. None of these statements are in any way reflections on anyone else who saw the movie. To claim that **lissener** is implying that people who like SPR are stupid for swallowing Spielberg’s propaganda makes as much sense as suggesting that **RikWriter** is calling us unAmerican for not loving this tribute to Our Men in Uniform. All art is subjective. There is no “right” way to react to any work of art, and it’s impossible to have an open debate on art if one side has to muzzle their opinions so as not to offend the other side. We are all adults here, presumably. We ought to be mature enough to seperate who we are from what we like. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-and-the-oscars/331893/147 "2005-11-22T19:52:25Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > …It seems to me that the message of the movie is: War is evil, but it is sometimes a _necessary_ evil; we should appreciate and remember the sacrifices made by WW II veterans. I don’t see the film at all saying “War is evil”, but instead saying “War is hell” A subtle, but important distinction. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-and-the-oscars/331893/148 "2005-11-22T20:36:17Z")
> [@GargoyleWB](#): > > I don’t see the film at all saying “War is evil”, but instead saying “War is hell” > > A subtle, but important distinction. I’d say multiple scenes of gunning down surrendering soldiers goes beyond war being “hell” to war being “evil.” ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-and-the-oscars/331893/149 "2005-11-22T23:46:34Z")
It does seem that SPR has passed the test of time vis-a-vis SIL. I done hear anyone ever talking about the latter, but you see SPR a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2005, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-and-the-oscars/331893/150 "2005-11-22T23:55:08Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > It does seem that SPR has passed the test of time vis-a-vis SIL. I done hear anyone ever talking about the latter, but you see SPR a lot. I hear a lot more about SIL than SPR. It all depends on where you’re listening. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-and-the-oscars/331893/151 "2005-11-23T00:14:04Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > It does seem that SPR has passed the test of time vis-a-vis SIL. I done hear anyone ever talking about the latter, but you see SPR a lot. It helps that this is the broadcast movie du Jour for Veteran’s Day and Memorial Day. SIL is only shown on Queen Mum’s birthday. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-and-the-oscars/331893/152 "2005-11-23T03:06:30Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > There is no “right” way to react to any work of art, and it’s impossible to have an open debate on art if one side has to muzzle their opinions so as not to offend the other side. Lissener (or anyone else) doesn’t _have_ to do a damn thing. If he _does_ choose to express his opinion, I’m just amused by all the shock he expresses when people react. “Honestly bewildered”… give me a break. Or don’t. I’ll survive. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-and-the-oscars/331893/153 "2005-11-23T03:12:18Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I hear a lot more about SIL than SPR. It all depends on where you’re listening. Yeah, given that the crowd you hang out with consider Starship Troopers a classic, I imagine your sample is a bit skewed… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-and-the-oscars/331893/154 "2005-11-23T07:14:23Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Lissener (or anyone else) doesn’t _have_ to do a damn thing. If he _does_ choose to express his opinion, I’m just amused by all the shock he expresses when people react. “Honestly bewildered”… give me a break. > > Or don’t. I’ll survive. So, personal insults are a perfectly valid response to an opinion you don’t agree with, in a mature discussion about a work of art. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-and-the-oscars/331893.md?page=7)