# Saving Private Ryan question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 10, 2008, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-question/472067 "2008-11-10T17:49:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-question/472067/1 "2008-11-10T17:49:16Z")
TNT has been on a Tom Hanks kick lately, and it occured to me…in _Saving Private Ryan_, it’s never explained why Captain Miller’s hand shakes. He mentioned it started as he was embarking to Europe (I think.) Do we assume it was the start of Parkinson’s Disease? ---
**Author:** ![Euthanasiast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Euthanasiast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euthanasiast)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-question/472067/2 "2008-11-10T17:53:44Z")
I always assumed that it was the end result of all of the lives lost under his command and the awful rationalizations he had to make to endure those losses. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-question/472067/3 "2008-11-10T17:55:01Z")
I thought it was just fear. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-question/472067/4 "2008-11-10T17:56:42Z")
That, and possibly post traumatic stress disorder (or shell shock, as they would have said at the time). ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-question/472067/5 "2008-11-10T17:56:44Z")
It didn’t happen during battle though…it happened once in the church, and again when they were looking at a map. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-question/472067/6 "2008-11-10T17:58:03Z")
Well, that’s the thing with PTSD - it doesn’t necessarily show up _when_ the trauma happens, but afterwards, when it’s “safe” to have a mental breakdown. And yeah, I figured it was the stress of combat, up to and possibly including PTSD. ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-question/472067/7 "2008-11-10T18:23:15Z")
Didn’t it also happen at the end, when he was shooting at the tank? ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-question/472067/8 "2008-11-10T18:30:10Z")
His hands are unsteady at the end because he has been shot multiple times. The other times he is being overcome by fear. Although this does not happen in battle, because there is a break in the action, then the emotion can come forth. During the battle he doesn’t have time to be afraid. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-question/472067/9 "2008-11-10T19:18:55Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > It didn’t happen during battle though…it happened once in the church, and again when they were looking at a map. And during the D-Day invasion - I think it’s in the first shot we see of Cpt. Miller. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-question/472067/10 "2008-11-10T19:21:41Z")
He’s nervous wreck, I think. He just keeps it cool in front of the men. It’s Shell Shock. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-question/472067/11 "2008-11-10T21:07:47Z")
It’s not actually stated in the movie. However, the symptom is wholly consistent with shell shock/post traumatic stress disorder. It’s clearly noted in the film that the character, Capt. Miller, has already see a very great amount of combat in Africa and Italy (as has his sergeant.) A soldier can only see so much combat before nerves begin to wear away and symptoms begin to emerge; there’s no such thing as “getting used” to combat, so far as any major study done by any army has ever found. Beyond a certain amount of exposure to combat a soldier loses effectiveness. Writes Gwynne Dyer in War, citing a US Army study, [QUOTE=Gwynne Dyer] The pattern was universal, in all units of every nationality on all fronts… After three weeks (of combat experience) they were at their peak - and then the deterioration began. By the sixth week of continuous combat… most soldiers had become convinced of the inevitabiliy of their own death and had stopped believing that their own skill or courage could make any difference. They would continue to function with gradually diminishing effectiveness for some months, but in the end… the result was the same… The soldier was slow-witted… Mental defects became so extreme he could not be counted upon to relay a verbal order… He remained almost constantly in or near his slit trench, and during acute actions took little or no part, trembling constantly.'" (War, p. 25.) [/QUOTE] Dyer goes on to note that periods of rest could extend a soldier’s effectiveness but that studies show the symptoms would invariably show up sooner or later. The shaking hand isn’t immediate fear, because he shows the symptom on several occasions when he isn’t in danger - when holed in in the church, or when poring over the map after they find out roughl;y where Ryan is. So it’s just likely that he’s beginning to show physical signs of PTSD. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-question/472067/12 "2008-11-10T22:33:29Z")
I thought “shell shock” was the WWI term, and that during WWII they called it “combat fatigue”. All the same thing, of course. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-question/472067/13 "2008-11-10T23:02:22Z")
But didn’t it start when he was shipped over to Europe? I think that’s what he says to his sergeant in the church, when the sergeant notices it. If that’s the case, then it started before he saw any combat. ---
**Author:** ![Labtrash](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/labtrash/32/528_2.png) [@Labtrash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labtrash)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-question/472067/14 "2008-11-10T23:37:27Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > But didn’t it start when he was shipped over to Europe? I think that’s what he says to his sergeant in the church, when the sergeant notices it. If that’s the case, then it started before he saw any combat. I think he was in Africa before he was in Europe - he saw action there first. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-question/472067/15 "2008-11-11T00:55:05Z")
Yes- he and Horvath were there together. ---
**Author:** ![DeptfordX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DeptfordX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeptfordX)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-question/472067/16 "2008-11-11T01:32:09Z")
Agreeing with that **Gwynne Dyer** quote. Robert Graves (of I Claudius fame) wrote almost word for word about officer effectivness in WW1. > **[First world war: Robert Graves describes the effects of shellshock](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/nov/10/first-world-war-robert-graves-shellshock)** > > Extract: Poet Robert Graves' describes the effects of shellshock; extracted from his biography, Good-bye to All That ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-question/472067/17 "2008-11-11T02:05:03Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > But didn’t it start when he was shipped over to Europe? I think that’s what he says to his sergeant in the church, when the sergeant notices it. If that’s the case, then it started before he saw any combat. No; he says it started in Portsmouth, before the landings. That would have been one of the Allied marshalling points for the invasion force. He would therefore have participated in the African and Italian campaigns before being assigned to the force that invaded France. (This may be historically incorrect, however. Their unit, 2 Ranger Battalion, boarded at Weymouth, though it’s possible Miller himself had previously been in Portsmouth.) ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-question/472067/18 "2008-11-11T04:22:35Z")
> [@crazyjoe](#): > > Didn’t it also happen at the end, when he was shooting at the tank? One of the guys notices it while Miller is the road, waiting on news regarding the German tanks advancing on the town. I want to say while the men are listening to the Edith Piaf record. I don’t remember if it happened during the actual combat. Of course, unlike in the church and while viewing the map, Miller has plenty of reason to be immediately nervous while waiting on the tanks.