# Saving Private Ryan: what other movies "accurately" portray combat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 5, 2013, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-what-other-movies-accurately-portray-combat/665387 "2013-08-05T12:52:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-what-other-movies-accurately-portray-combat/665387/41 "2013-08-05T23:30:42Z")
_McCale’s Navy_ ? ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2013, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-what-other-movies-accurately-portray-combat/665387/42 "2013-08-05T23:55:49Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I recall there was a fairly graphic scene from Catch 22 where Yossarian is flashing back to an earlier mission where one of the crew was badly wounded. This happens throughout the movie. The kid looks to be only lightly wounded, but keeps complaining he’s very cold. Finally, Yossarian opens his flight jacket and sees that he’s been eviscerated. And yeah, it was pretty damned graphic. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-what-other-movies-accurately-portray-combat/665387/43 "2013-08-06T00:06:37Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > A friend of mine, who is a Vietnam veteran, told me that’s the most realistic movie depiction of that war he’s seen. One of my training in NCO’s in college ROTC was in the 101st in VietNam and was at that battle. He told me that it was the most realistic Vietnam War movie. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-what-other-movies-accurately-portray-combat/665387/44 "2013-08-06T00:15:12Z")
> [@minor7flat5](#): > > Movies like Memphis Belle don’t escape their movie-ness in my opinion because the writers try to make one mission contain examples of stuff that happened in a few dozen missions. **dropdad** rode the right-hand seat of a B-17 and I asked if they had done that and he said, “Nah, that’s pretty much how it was.” > [@Zebra](#): > > Apocalypse Now? Had a friend who found the scene at the bridge uncomfortably realistic. > [@DrDeth](#): > > My Dad liked the TV series Combat!, The Big Red One, also The Longest Day (but “Too many officers”). > > He said the scene in TBRO where the veterans wouldn’t learn the names of the newbies was correct. I used to think the endless parade of replacements coming and dying in _Combat_ while the core veterans soldiered on was just an excuse for one-shot guest stars, but I understand that was SOP. > [@silenus](#): > > _Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf?_ AKA: Saturday Night at the **zone** House." Dad’s undiagnosed PTSD made for me having a loud childhood. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-what-other-movies-accurately-portray-combat/665387/45 "2013-08-06T00:19:33Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > My Dad liked the TV series Combat!, The Big Red One, also The Longest Day. _ **Combat!** _ has always been one of my favorite TV series. The early ones directed by Robert Altman were particularly good. None of these was particularly graphic, though. As a rule, whenever a guy was shot, he’d just double up and go “Ugh!” before falling dead. No exit wounds, no blood splatters, no spastic jerking, nothing. Even though it was written by a combat veteran, I found parts of _ **BRO** _ hard to swallow. The German sniper perched behind the cross was like something from a Sgt. Rock comic. And the scene where Lee Marvin knifes the German who’s playing dead inside the tank, and none of the other Germans react? In their position, I’d be shitting my pants; no way would I expect to get away with such a stunt! ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-what-other-movies-accurately-portray-combat/665387/46 "2013-08-06T00:21:39Z")
What about Flags of Our Fathers and to a lesser degree, Letters from Iwo Jima? I know Spike Lee had some objections, but in general I think Clint got good grades for historical accuracy ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-what-other-movies-accurately-portray-combat/665387/47 "2013-08-06T00:25:22Z")
Not combat as such but my grandfather (captured by the Japanese in 1941) had serious nightmares/flashbacks after seeing _Bridge on the River Kwai_ and my mother (also a POW) was the same after watching _Empire of the Sun_. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-what-other-movies-accurately-portray-combat/665387/48 "2013-08-06T00:47:17Z")
I am no battle expert, but the brief(very brief) battle scenes in Full Metal Jacket seemed realistic and amazingly well made. > [@OtisCampbellWasRight](#): > > The Hurt Locker Again, I’m no expert, but did it really? Perhaps Zero Dark Thirty caught a Seal raid accurately, though, but I’m not sure. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-what-other-movies-accurately-portray-combat/665387/49 "2013-08-06T01:34:42Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > What about Flags of Our Fathers and to a lesser degree, Letters from Iwo Jima? I know Spike Lee had some objections, but in general I think Clint got good grades for historical accuracy I found two interviews with Japanese veterans of Iwo Jima. The first only saw Flags of Our Fathers and says he walked out halfway because “it felt like watching a play.” He thought it didn’t capture the true horror of war. The other vet, though, saw both films and was impressed feeling that they did a good job of capturing what it was like being there. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-what-other-movies-accurately-portray-combat/665387/50 "2013-08-06T02:16:12Z")
For certain values of “combat,” I’ve heard [_Heat_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_%281995_film%29) rated pretty highly. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-what-other-movies-accurately-portray-combat/665387/51 "2013-08-06T02:26:30Z")
Going back in time a bit, “Gettysburg” was quite good. In the opening scene, where the Confederate infantry begin to outflank the position held by the Union cavalry, you see one of the very, very, VERY few instances of a depiction of lateral movement in a war movie. War movies tend to be highly unidirectional. Maneuver is almost always directly toward (or away from) the enemy. Marines hitting the beach; cavalry charges directly at the enemy line, etc. “Gettysburg” showed that troops can obtain their goals by quietly walking to one side, maneuvering to out-extend your line. “Spartacus,” the old Kirk Douglas film, did a beautiful job of depicting Roman Cohorts deploying in their highly-effective checkerboard grid. ---
**Author:** ![Cell\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@Cell\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cell_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-what-other-movies-accurately-portray-combat/665387/52 "2013-08-06T03:20:20Z")
> [@Wallenstein](#): > > Band of Brothers did a good job, very similar in style to Saving Private Ryan. It should be. Capt. Dale Dye, USMC, Ret., was the senior military advisor for both (along with _The Pacific_). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-what-other-movies-accurately-portray-combat/665387/53 "2013-08-06T04:14:49Z")
> [@Cell\_Guy](#): > > It should be. Capt. Dale Dye, USMC, Ret., was the senior military advisor for both (along with _The Pacific_). He trained Hanks and the other actors for SPR, and also appeared as a member of Gen. George C. Marshall’s staff. [![](https://community.fortunecity.ws/lavender/fullmonty/35/spr26.jpg) ](https://community.fortunecity.ws/lavender/fullmonty/35/spr26.jpg) [http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsD/5084.gif](http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsD/5084.gif) ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-what-other-movies-accurately-portray-combat/665387/54 "2013-08-06T04:16:56Z")
> [@Cell\_Guy](#): > > It should be. Capt. Dale Dye, USMC, Ret., was the senior military advisor for both (along with _The Pacific_). And they all done with the involvement of Steven Spielberg and Tom Hanks. ---
**Author:** ![Gunslinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gunslinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gunslinger)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-what-other-movies-accurately-portray-combat/665387/55 "2013-08-06T05:54:34Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > For certain values of “combat,” I’ve heard [_Heat_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_%281995_film%29) rated pretty highly. The big shootout in the street was accurate combat in every sense – sure, they were jewel thieves vs. cops, but the gang’s tactics were proper small-unit infantry tactics. Compare to the running gunfights in _Black Hawk Down_ (especially when the machine gunners meet up with the other guy and leg it back to the rest of the group) – the Rangers use the exact same tactics. For purely civilian-style combat,\* Collateral\* is good. The “yo homie, is that my briefcase?” scene is basically the thing all the competitive tactical pistol competitions are training for – slap the other guy’s gun away and Mozambique 'em (two quick shots to the chest, then aim for the head). Basically anything directed by Michael Mann has _perfect_ gun work. _Ultimate Force_ is available on instant Netflix and is a pretty good cop show. Except in this case, the cops are the SAS. Created by and starring-in-a-bit-part the other guy from the infamous Bravo Two Zero raid (the show is about Red Squad; Blue Squad CO that sometimes shows up to beg for the assignment/complain about Red’s handling of a job is actual SAS trooper). ---
**Author:** ![Krav\_Manga](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/krav_manga/32/3153_2.png) [@Krav\_Manga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krav_Manga)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-what-other-movies-accurately-portray-combat/665387/56 "2013-08-06T08:51:51Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Oh, and a tidbit about a different movie; apparently the Vietnam combat scenes in “Forrest Gump” were realistic enough to startle a friend of mine’s PTSD-affected Vietnam vet dad into some kind of flashback where he hit the deck in the movie theater and started low-crawling around. Apparently he’s ok when he knows ahead of time that there will be Vietnam combat scenes, but if they surprise him and they’re realistic enough, the old reflexes take over. My old man is a Vietnam veteran. He once said that the Forrest Gump scenes were particularly well done - particularly the parts about the constant and varying types of rain. ---
**Author:** ![Fir\_na\_tine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fir\_na\_tine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fir_na_tine)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-what-other-movies-accurately-portray-combat/665387/57 "2013-08-06T11:49:06Z")
> [@Battle\_Pope](#): > > Not combat as such but my grandfather (captured by the Japanese in 1941) had serious nightmares/flashbacks after seeing _Bridge on the River Kwai_ and my mother (also a POW) was the same after watching _Empire of the Sun_. Can you expand on your mothers story? How did she become a POW? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-what-other-movies-accurately-portray-combat/665387/58 "2013-08-06T12:10:26Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > It was a good enough movie, but I’ve yet to see one that captures the sheer terror of aerial combat inside an unpressurized bomber at 25,000 feet. They weren’t in bombers, but the second episode of _Band of Brothers_, when they’re parachuting over Normandy, does a great job of showing the helpless terror of being the target of an anti-aircraft barrage. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-what-other-movies-accurately-portray-combat/665387/59 "2013-08-06T12:29:50Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > “Spartacus,” the old Kirk Douglas film, did a beautiful job of depicting Roman Cohorts deploying in their highly-effective checkerboard grid. Besides historical accuracy (I guess), that’s good movie-making. When we look at that [scene again](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgywD3XJaWU), for what it shows (besides Olivier using his long cloak to hide his anachronistic stirrups), its purpose was to prepare the audience. Up until then, the slaves had been striving and prevailing and reveling in Dalton Trumbo’s proletarian glory. Kubrick had to bring this all back to earth, couldn’t just throw them into battle and, oops, have the Romans win. So we watch this giant machine form its order of battle so the message can dawn on even the stupidest member of the audience: the bad guys are going to win this one. In the aftermath, they do something else pretty neat. No the much-parodied “I’m Spartacus” scene, but later when Olivier comes to savor his humiliation of Spartacus. In 1960 audiences were expecting this part: Eric Von Stroheim or Keye Luke had done it in every WWII movie they’d seen. But instead of Bob Cummings or Dana Andrews replying with a plucky patriotic speech, Kirk Douglass doesn’t say shit: he just spits in Olivier’s eye. Awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-what-other-movies-accurately-portray-combat/665387/60 "2013-08-06T12:59:04Z")
> [@Fir\_na\_tine](#): > > Can you expand on your mothers story? How did she become a POW? Her family is Dutch, my grandfather was in the Dutch army stationed in Indonesia (Dutch East Indies as it was then). When the Japanese invaded my grandfather was captured and worked the Thai-Burma railway while my grandmother, mother & uncle were put into a civilian POW camp on Java. All managed to survive the war. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-what-other-movies-accurately-portray-combat/665387.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saving-private-ryan-what-other-movies-accurately-portray-combat/665387.md?page=4)