Saving the NBA: WOULD more white stars get people interested again?

It must be a secret because I can’t find any data to back that up and, as a matter of fact, I find just the opposite.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5240021/
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4752194/

I doubt the NBA is lacking in diversity as well. The league has players from Italy, France, China, etc. Can you provide an article from an “expert” that agrees to this? I am not sure there is such a thing.

The issue of ‘not enough whites’ is possible, but I highly doubt it. I also don’t know which experts you are refering to because

  1. Attendance is not down
  2. Who exactly is an expert?

Anyway, The NBA is not as entertaining as it used to be. In my opinon this began with the Michael Jordan era and the ending of the Magic/Larry Bird era.

The MJ era was the creation of one man teams and the death of team concept basketball. This created the marketing of players over teams.

I can remember the finals used to be “Lakers vs Celtics” and then became “MJ’s Bulls vs Malones Jazz”

You may see a comeback to the team concept of play with the success of the Pistons recently. I sure hope so.

I can’t tolerate the NBA because there’s no offense. Today’s scores look like they came from the 1950s.

The NBA is boring.

2003…

http://www.tuftsobserver.org/sports/20031117/the_state_of_the_nba_addr.html

There is no mention of attendance in this article. It is possible I am just missing it though

Another article, circa 2001. This one is about declining revenue and attendance as it relates to television numbers.

Still, pretty telling.

Article

Maybe this thread should have been made 3 years ago.
Because it doesn’t hold much weight this year.
As pkd88 pointed out with his link, NBA set a single season attendance record.
This was due, in part, to the influx of some exciting, new, young talent, in James, Anthony, Bosh, Wade.
Unfortunatley, to those that it matters, none of these players are of the caucasion persuasion.

Will this past season by the start of a resurgence of the NBA, could be.
It’s just that this time, it Carmelo vs Lebron, instead of Bird vs Magic.

To the real fan, it doesn’t matter what race a player is, as long as he can play at the highest level.

But the NBA’s popularity peaked after the Celtics powerhouse had long since fallen by the wayside. It was the Michael Jordan era when the NBA peaked.

As has already been pointed out, it’s hard to argue there aren’t as many non-black players as there’s ever been. Yao, Nowitzki, Nash, Kidd, all big names. And more are coming up.

The NBA is doing just fine. I see no reason to think otherwise. If there was a slight falloff in attendance around 1999-2002 it was probably due to the general boredom with the Lakers and Spurs winning all the time. This year the East caught up, and attendance went up. With Detroit winning all the marbles I predict excellent attendance next year as well. (An NHL lockout would help a little, too.)

I agree that the race issue is perfectly irrelevent. Black people have succeeded wildly in the NBA–it’s a given that they have earned their place there. No one could argue that whites are discriminated against, either.

Black people know this, white people know this.

The racial makeup of the participants is a pretty petty reason to take interest in something or not. It’s true that black people are beating white people in the competition to get into the NBA, but black and white kids all across the US still like the game.

There is a line. Has the league/sport/broadcasters convinced the black people (well, actually, the black people who care) that they are presenting an unprejudiced coverage? I’m not convinced they would (all) reject a truly talented, Jordan-quality player just because he’s white.

Guess we’ll see when you (non-specific) find one. :wink:

I don’t think the media is looking for a white kid to spread b-ball the same way a white guy spread rap. Eminem filled a tremendous void and racial gap and blurred the way whites see race. He is in many ways like Elvis - the music was there before, but he unleashed it onto a new (very large) audience who had previously been unwilling (or unable) to listen to it before. It also helped that Eminem started off getting a lot of play on rock stations. What really made him win was his persistence to get noticed.

One of the situations was that the mass (white) media was unwilling to cover rap because it is/was such a hostile territory. The popular (white) image of rap was N.W.A. style angry, aggressive, and decidedly anti-white. The two sides mutually held their noses up at each other over a very broad gulf (with the Beastie Boys, a few other novelty acts, and the bitter taste of Vanilla Ice floating between).

None of those situations are applicable to professional basketball. The white audience that would be watching is already watching. All they need is a few interesting teams to get behind.

Maybe they do need another hero, white, black, whatever, I don’t think it matters, as long as he only has sex with legal people. O_o

From this non-sports-guy’s point of view, I pretty much cannot be interested in games that aren’t really turn-based. I find poker a thousand times more interesting than race car driving, baseball infinitely more fascinating than soccer, football a better game than hockey, and pretty much everything is better than basketball. Real time games seem, to me, to lack any real strategy or tactics, or even an intuitive grasp of statistics, and focus purely on athletic skill and luck. Which is why I don’t watch most Olympic games, for that matter. It just… doesn’t feel like a “game” to me. To me, games require planning, strategising, and just plain out-thinking the opponent. When I watch football, I get the feeling that roughly equal opponents in the athletic category can still play a terribly exciting game that demonstrate’s one team’s ability to create plays designed to outwit the opponent. When I watch basketball, all I see is schoolyard fakeouts, generic athletic ability, and so many shots scored as to make the score a wash for me. Given equally athletic teams, I feel it is a coin toss who wins. (Generally, this is how I feel about any game that isn’t turn-based, though of course being turn-based doesn’t guarantee a strategy either, .eg., around the world.)

To get me interested, I’d need to understand how strategy comes into a game. What is the strategy in basketball? Are there tactics? Someone enlighten me and you might just create a new fan.

Plus, all sports need to stop pre-empting my friggin’ television shows, the surest way to get me to not watch. :stuck_out_tongue:

Despite the love Beantown had for the Bahstin Cauca…er, I mean Celtics back in the Bird era, I’m not convinced race has much to do with it either.

With expansion teams, lots of new, rather characterless arenas, the constant shuffling of players who jump from team to team a more readily than in the past, the NBA seems to be comprise more of McTeams, who play in McArenas, for McCity. Why care? One looks just like the next. There just doesn’t seem to be that “home team” feel anymore.

I saw the Celtics play in both the Garden and the Fleet Center. The Boston Garden was grimy, had pathetic sightlines for some of the seats, felt claustrophobic in places, but it had that Garden atomosphere that the Fleet Center can’t come close to. More intimate, more organic, more real. Plus I could afford to go there even when I was a starving student.

Woe be to us when we finally lose Fenway. We’ll lament that more than the Curse of the Bambino, I’d be willing to bet.

I don’t really care how much money teams are making and I imagine there are a owners like Mark Cuban who agree with me. People talk about the business of sports but high profile sports leagues are unique. There is such a cachet to them that they can lose money and still be sucessful. But if finances get bad and they have to cut player salaries in half I suspect that I could adjust. :wink:

There are plenty of people who think like you; I’m just not one of them. I love watching Sprewell play. It’s exciting and I don’t care that he tried to choke his coach. Similarly I don’t care about R Kelly’s sex life. If the song flows then let it flow.

I don’t have any evidence but I would tend to think so. I would assume that an influx of white stars would increase interest among whites. The item I like to point to is the Mike Bibby/Jason Williams trade. Williams had a good season, offensively at least, but overall Bibby is the better player. So why make the trade? Could it be that the Grizzlies were moving to Memphis and Jason Williams is white?

They don’t watch a sport because of race? I think “racism” is pretty obvious.

I think Eminem is a good example. Or Jason Williams for that matter. They excel at things typically associated with African-Americans without a blacklash. ( Sorry, couldn’t resist. ) Why? I think it is because they deal with it the right way. They acknowledge the blacks who paved the way for them and don’t deny that being white was a major factor in their career. They appear respectful and honest so they are accepted. People that fail to do so ( Kid Rock, Elvis ) are viewed as ungrateful punks.

I hope you are right. Big money college sports perverts both college and sports. Let it die sooner than later. I think the NBA should take over the CBA and give each franchise a nearby farm team. Then teams could build future players without sacrificing quality play and build up the local bonds of loyalty at the same time.

I agree that “thugishness” turns off many potential fans. I wouldn’t discount racism as a factor in that though. In my experience many whites are less willing to give a black guy the benefit of the doubt. Dude comes in looking like a playa and they associate that with criminal intent whether he has a record or not.

I can’t stomach college sports. Every team cheats. Every one. I’ll take unsavory persons over unsavory organizations every day of the week. Particularly unsavory organizations whose ostensible purpose is education. Others see things diferently.

The game isn’t easy to explain without visual aids, erislover. If you are interested I suggest sitting down and watching a game. Preferably over beers. But all of the beauty of the game isn’t in the strategy. It’s in the movement. NBA guys can accomplish feats you would swear was impossible. A friend of mine who wasn’t a fan came away from watching an NBA game on TV swearing Michael Jordan could fly. And I admit, sometimes it seemed like he could somehow change direction in midair. A lot of the game is the athletic artistry.

Another thing is the shot clock. A team only has 24 seconds to get off a shot. If they don’t, or if their shot doesn’t come close enough to hit the rim it’s a shot clock violation and the other team gets the ball. There is no stalling in b-ball. The action comes fast and furious. This makes momentum very important. It’s often a game of runs. One team gets hot for a while and gets ahead and then their opponents take over and go on a run of their own.

There are many strategies. One thing to keep in mind is that a team only has eight seconds to move the ball past the half court line and once across they can’t take it back. This makes for interesting scenarios. You can try to pin a team just short of the line and force them to take too much time or run the “half court trap”. Let them bring it across and just as they do bring up 2 defenders to press the ballhandler. Since the guy can’t go backwards he almost always picks up his dribble ( meaning he can’t walk forward either ) and looks for someone to pass to.

One basic offensive tactic is the pick and roll. One of the bigger players comes away from the basket and stands next to the person defending the ballhandler. This is “setting the pick”. Basically, the bigger player is restricting the movement of the defender. As this happens the ball handler runs past the pick ( toward the side not toward the basket. ) The defender has a choice. He can go under the pick, that is run around the bigger player on the basket side, or go over the pick ( also called “fighting through the pick” ), that is run on the far side of the big man staying closer to the man he is defending.

The prefered option is to go over the pick. If he goes under it puts the big man between him and the ballhandler. This is dangerous because the guy can take an open shot so it is only prefered when the ballhandler isn’t a great outside shooter. So far we are only talking about one defender. Generally the person guarding the bigger offensive player will come out to join the fun. The bigger defender can help his teammate go under or even over a pick by “showing”. This means stepping a bit further out from the basket and putting a hand up to keep the ballhandler from getting an open look at the basket. Big defenders are reluctant to do this because it’s not “the pick” but “the pick and roll”.

The person to watch when you see this tactic is not the guy with the ball but the guy setting the pick. He has to stand still as the defender is trying to get past him or else he will get a penalty. But once the defender is clear of the pick the bigger offensive man will roll. That is, he will turn the other way and run toward the basket. If his defender is showing then he will be open until yet another defender leaves his offensive player and comes over to help.

This is where it gets fun. The ballhandler has many options. He can take the shot if it’s there. Or he can continue moving around his defender, who is likely slightly behind him now, and try to take the ball to the basket himself. Or he can pass the ball to the man rolling toward the basket. Or, if a third defender is helping ( this is why you need to watch the man rolling ) the ballhandler can pass to the third offensive player who is now open. Or he can move toward a fourth offensive player who might set another pick and it starts all over again.

Teams with good individual defenders, such as my Pistons, can avoid this by switching. Instead of fighting through the pick the smaller defender can call a switch and the bigger defender will step out and take over and leave the smaller defender to guard the bigger offensive player. This has problems though as there is now a mismatch. A bigger player has an advantage in scoring on a smaller player close to the basket and a smaller player has a good chance to shake a bigger defender out on the perimeter and get an open shot.

Anyways, I hope this helps.

Cheat as in perpetrators get together and determine the outcome of the game before it is played? I disagree with that assessment. If however, you mean the NCAA and its bag of crap, I agree. They may have some small interest in education but for the most part, they are driven by profit. Which is fine, if one owns up to it. But it seems to trot itself out as some high-minded institution. In my opinion, that is dishonest on their part. As far as I know, the players, most of them, and most of the coaches go out and compete relying on skill, strategy, team work, etc to win.

Thanks for the explanation, 2sense. I’ll check out a few games and see what I can see.

Nitpick: Kidd is a black guy.

I’ve been a raving basketball fan my whole life until relatively recently. I cut back and stopped watching regular season a few years ago. Then I realized recently that I hadn’t watched a single game in two years, and didn’t even care who was in the playoffs…after much introspection I came up with some things…

  1. League expansion has hurt the appeal of the teams for the fans. BBall playoffs used to be stacked with several great teams of skilled players. Team tactics and strategy would go deep into the bench players before you really suffered from true skill weakness. Team play, lineups, and subs were a fascinating science. Today’s high number of teams result in one or two key players, the remaining starting five would’ve been bench subs 10 years ago. Skill is just too diluted across the league now. Strategy now involves “holding the fort” and trying not to get behind while your 1 or 2 stars rest.

  2. More teams means exponentially greater trading and shuffling. Sucks for the fans, very few teams will keep a player or lineup. No interesting bonds, rivalries, or matchups get created. Nowhere in the league is there a team where I can curse the opposing player who always defeats us. The only lasting holdout were Stockton/Malone for a teamed pair. The media has been trying to create the illusion that Shaq and Bryant are somehow a team, but no one fell for it. Try to name even one true starting 5 lineup that deserves to be so.

  3. Prices. Basketball has always been about gritty blue-collar Beantown vs Shytown sweaty hard-workin’ sports fans. Working joes would look forward to attending the games, knock back some hotdogs, and recap strategy at the bar. The last pro game I attended only because I won the tickets free in a work pool, and sat in the stadium surrounded by cleancut businessmen chatting on cellphones, office-casual khakis neatly pressed while they sipped their micro and orderd battered lobster (seriously!). The crowds at pro games now resemble a Wimbledon match, gone are the kids, families, beerbellies, and working stiffs shouting “You suck Ainge!” The fans, what are left, are now skipping the stadiums and watching on pay-per-view at the bars. The kids no longer care about role models because their parents no longer care about the game.

  4. Another poster made a great point. Nothing is at stake in the regular season. This means teams don’t try hard, going for hohum consistency, and don’t work their stars for fear of injuries. There are far too many games in the season, and too many teams to play against to care about lineups or strategy. It is all “save it for the playoffs”.

  5. Rules-neutering by the league. Constantly over the years, the ability to play effective defense has been stripped from the league. The league still feels that it is points and dunks that sell tickets, and not interesting games. Clue time! Dunks stopped being a novelty in 1976! Give us back the game! Some of the most brilliant teams to watch are the half-courters like the 80’s Celtics, the defensive scrappers of the 80s/90s Pistons, the unstoppable rejections of the Rockets centers. The “If you even so much as breathe on me, I’ll get foul shots along with my 3 steps of continuation for the inevitable dunk so don’t even think of guarding me” style of play has got to go. Shaq might have developed an interesting playing style to watch if the league ever called a charge on him and force some adaptation.

NBA is dead. The Lakers were the last half-hearted whisper of the old game we knew, and a pale imitation of that at best.

Cheat as in break NCAA rules. They pay athletes, get them clothes, cars, girls, take care of their grades, violations like that. The win at all cost pressure of big money and alumni prestige perverts our institutions of higher learning. They maintain a zero tolerance for student cheating ( with non-athletes at least ) but cheat constantly cheat themselves. They all do it so if you want to win you do it too. An organization that adheres to the recruiting rules is at a serious disadvantage. Sometimes it is just as simple as showing up at more games and practices than allowed to show a prized high school star he is wanted.

GargoyleWB,

Check out a Pistons game on TV some time. Hopefully as NBA champs they will be easier to find than last season. There are teams that do it right.