# Savoyards of the SDMB, unite! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 9, 2005, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/savoyards-of-the-sdmb-unite/330149 "2005-11-09T01:47:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/savoyards-of-the-sdmb-unite/330149/1 "2005-11-09T01:47:32Z")
When I was a kid, I was a huge fan of Gilbert and Sullivan, and spent hours listening to a couple of records we had, particularly _The Mikado_. It seemed like G&S was pretty popular back then – a staple of community theater, at least. But now it seems to have disappeared from the cultural landscape. Is that true, or am I just missing it? Or maybe it’s cyclical, and due for a revival. Anyone else have fond memories of Gilbert and Sullivan? Bonus points if you know which one was the librettist. ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/savoyards-of-the-sdmb-unite/330149/2 "2005-11-09T08:22:19Z")
It seems to go in cycles. I have vague memories of “The Pirates of Penzance” being popular several decades ago, but I wasn’t paying attention. I became interested in Gilbert & Sullivan after watching “Topsy Turvy”, which was an excellent movie. I would love to see a good production of “The Mikado”. I have CDs of most of their operettas. Unfortunately, like much opera, it seems that the best performances are on the really old recordings, and the modern recordings have mediocre performances. Sullivan was the librettist. ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/savoyards-of-the-sdmb-unite/330149/3 "2005-11-09T08:24:41Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > Sullivan was the librettist. Correction, Sullivan was the composer and Gilbert was the librettist. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/savoyards-of-the-sdmb-unite/330149/4 "2005-11-09T11:43:08Z")
I’ve done a fair bit over the last decade, but I don’t think it’s as popular as formerly; it probably needs to be discovered by a new generation of audiences. – **Malacandra** , a.k.a. Strephon, Sergeant of Police, Lord Mountararat, Pooh-Bah, and Duke of Plaza-Toro. ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/savoyards-of-the-sdmb-unite/330149/5 "2005-11-09T12:06:43Z")
The best production of the Mikado in recent years was a Canadian production in the 80’s wherein Eric Idle played Ko-ko I love G&S - here on the “guylandt” is the [GASLOCOLI](http://www.gaslocoli.snickersnee.com/index.shtml) that one of these days I will get the courage to audition for. I did a lot of G&S shows in HS and college I played Lady Jane in Patience Katishaw in the Mikado Ruth in Pirates and Buttercup in Pinafore as an overall production, i think my favorite is The Mikado, but my favorite role was Lady Jane (perhaps because that was the only one I did in a professional theatre - at the Bardavon in Poughkeepsie NY with the Mid Husdon G&S Society ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/savoyards-of-the-sdmb-unite/330149/6 "2005-11-09T12:47:08Z")
> [@anyrose](#): > > The best production of the Mikado in recent years was a Canadian production in the 80’s wherein Eric Idle played Ko-ko I have mixed feelings about Idle’s rewriting of one or two of the arias. The results were certainly funny enough, but you just don’t _do_ that. And it’s not exactly in the spirit of Sir William to have the word “pissed” rhyme with “They’ll none of them be missed”! (And what’s he got against gynecologists?) ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/savoyards-of-the-sdmb-unite/330149/7 "2005-11-09T12:53:58Z")
> [@Biffy the Elephant Shrew](#): > > I have mixed feelings about Idle’s rewriting of one or two of the arias. The results were certainly funny enough, but you just don’t _do_ that. And it’s not exactly in the spirit of Sir William to have the word “pissed” rhyme with “They’ll none of them be missed”! (And what’s he got against gynecologists?) Actually it is a bit of a tradition to update the lyrics of an aria to match the current political climate - I’ve seen it done a number of times ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/savoyards-of-the-sdmb-unite/330149/8 "2005-11-09T13:07:59Z")
Eh, talking of the Mikado, I’ve done him too. “I forget the punishment for compassing the death of the Heir Apparent… Yes. Something lingering, with boiling oil in it.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Re\_PT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a698b9/32.png) [@Re\_PT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Re_PT)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/savoyards-of-the-sdmb-unite/330149/9 "2005-11-09T13:14:59Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > I’ve done a fair bit over the last decade, but I don’t think it’s as popular as formerly; it probably needs to be discovered by a new generation of audiences. > > – **Malacandra** , a.k.a. Strephon, Sergeant of Police, Lord Mountararat, Pooh-Bah, and Duke of Plaza-Toro. My housemate is currently directing our university society’s Ruddigore (next March in Southampton, UK) but the popularity is a bit low at the moment - smallest intake for a good few years. As for the Mikado being a good one, I’m hoping to re-direct it in a couple of years time (currently on a short-list). PT _also a.k.a. Lord Mountararat, along with Major-General Stanley and Cyril_ ---
**Author:** ![Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleanor_of_Aquitaine)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/savoyards-of-the-sdmb-unite/330149/10 "2005-11-09T14:28:05Z")
When I was a kid my grandparents had a tape of the music from HMS Pinafore. As far as I can tell they bought the tape, inserted it into the player in their car, and never took it out. Every time I hear that music I feel transported to the the back seat of their car. I was an usher once at an opera house that was playing The Mikado - that’s the only live performance I’ve ever seen. But I love my CDs of Pinafore, Pirates, Mikado and Trial By Jury. I need to collect the rest of them. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/savoyards-of-the-sdmb-unite/330149/11 "2005-11-09T15:07:19Z")
I performed with a G&S Company for ten years (patter baritone, thank you very much). Roles I have played: [ul] [li]Ko-Ko in _The Mikado_[/li][li]Dick Deadeye in _H.M.S. Pinafore_[/li][li]Giuseppi in _The Gondoliers_[/li][li]Grosvenor in _Patience_[/li][li]The Pirate King in _The Pirates of Penzance_[/li][li]Sir Marmaduke Poindexter in _The Sorcerer_[/li][li]Sir Despard and Sir Roderick in _Ruddigore_[/li][/ul] And I have been an on-and-off again member of the Savoynet (a listserv for G&S devotees) since, oh, 1997. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/savoyards-of-the-sdmb-unite/330149/12 "2005-11-09T15:24:56Z")
**Kizarvexius** , have you ever believed you are a duck? 😉 /hijack ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/savoyards-of-the-sdmb-unite/330149/13 "2005-11-09T15:30:18Z")
> [@Kizarvexius](#): > > I performed with a G&S Company for ten years (patter baritone, thank you very much). > > Roles I have played: > [ul] > [li]Ko-Ko in _The Mikado_[/li][li]Dick Deadeye in _H.M.S. Pinafore_[/li][li]Giuseppi in _The Gondoliers_[/li][li]Grosvenor in _Patience_[/li][li]The Pirate King in _The Pirates of Penzance_[/li][li]Sir Marmaduke Poindexter in _The Sorcerer_[/li][li]Sir Despard and Sir Roderick in _Ruddigore_[/li][/ul] > > And I have been an on-and-off again member of the Savoynet (a listserv for G&S devotees) since, oh, 1997. OOH! Let’s do a duet! :in my richest alto: “There’s beauty in the bellow of the blast…” ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/savoyards-of-the-sdmb-unite/330149/14 "2005-11-09T15:31:32Z")
Dumb question: why “Savoyards” for Gilbert & Sullivan fans? ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/savoyards-of-the-sdmb-unite/330149/15 "2005-11-09T15:36:26Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > Dumb question: why “Savoyards” for Gilbert & Sullivan fans? not sure - but I believe the D’Oly Carte Company often performed at the Savoy Theatre ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/savoyards-of-the-sdmb-unite/330149/16 "2005-11-09T16:45:26Z")
> [@anyrose](#): > > Actually it is a bit of a tradition to update the lyrics of an aria to match the current political climate - I’ve seen it done a number of times Fair enough, but it just feels wrong to me to do this with G&S. Gilbert & Sullivan are like the opposite of Shakespeare: Shakespeare easily accommodates any change in setting or period because Shakespeare is universal. There’s nothing particularly Danish about Hamlet. Gilbert & Sullivan, by contrast, whether set in Italy or medieval Japan, is _always_ about Victorian England. ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/savoyards-of-the-sdmb-unite/330149/17 "2005-11-09T18:13:33Z")
I think the problem is that some of the lyrics in the _Mikado_ are not so politically correct: “There’s the banjo serenader, and the others of his race,” etc. I think it’s a longstanding tradition to replace the “society offenders” on Ko-Ko’s list. Don’t know about other arias, though. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/savoyards-of-the-sdmb-unite/330149/18 "2005-11-09T18:30:55Z")
> [@Sal Ammoniac](#): > > I think the problem is that some of the lyrics in the _Mikado_ are not so politically correct: “There’s the banjo serenader, and the others of his race,” etc. I think it’s a longstanding tradition to replace the “society offenders” on Ko-Ko’s list. Don’t know about other arias, though. On the _Mikado_ LP I have, in “My Object All Sublime,” the woman who dyes her hair and pinches her figure “Is painted with vigor/And permanent walnut juice.” Only when I consulted a score in the library did I learn that the original words were “Is blacked like a nigger/With permanent walnut juice.” ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/savoyards-of-the-sdmb-unite/330149/19 "2005-11-09T19:15:46Z")
I have to say I used to love G&S starting in high school and into my twenties, but these days (some 30 years later) they seem a bit mannered. One evidence of this is that I still have LPs of all the operas but I haven’t updated any of them to CDs. But I did enjoy very much the bits of the operas that appeared in Topsy Turvy. [slight hijack]It was at that same time that I became entranced with Goon Shows (British radio series “starring Peter Sellers, Harry Secombe and Spike Milligan, with Ray Ellington and his Quartet, and Max Geldray. Orchestra conducted by Wally Stott, script by Eric Sykes and Spike Milligan, directed by (I don’t remember). This is Wallace Greenslade, saying ‘Loodgie!’”) I recently bought some CDs from Amazon, and found them rather less hilarious than I remembered. Maybe I’m losing my sense of humor :eek: I think I’m going to search to see if there’s another thread anywhere on the Goon Show.[/slight hijack] Sorry for the hijack, carry on. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2005, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/savoyards-of-the-sdmb-unite/330149/20 "2005-11-09T19:21:33Z")
> [@anyrose](#): > > Actually it is a bit of a tradition to update the lyrics of an aria to match the current political climate - I’ve seen it done a number of times Aye . . . the original lyrics to “They’ll None of Them Be Missed” name “the serenading nigger and the others of his race.” In most productions, this blithe invitation to genocide is omitted – “nigger” typically replaced with “banjo.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/savoyards-of-the-sdmb-unite/330149.md?page=2)