# Saw a SovCit licence plate **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 26, 2023, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-a-sovcit-licence-plate/980398 "2023-02-26T15:09:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-a-sovcit-licence-plate/980398/41 "2023-03-01T19:25:22Z")
Lenders are free to require insurance. The state does not. Obviously if you don’t have a car loan then you’re all set (I lived in NH for 20 years). No insurance means liability is on the driver. You can’t get blood from a stone. Generally people with assets and reasonable income keep insurance for this reason. I don’t know what the legality of prohibiting an uninsured driver from NH in another state would be but in practice it’s a non-issue, because to my knowledge nobody does this (prohibits is). All of this is why “uninsured motorist” is good insurance to have, because even where insurance is required, sometimes people don’t comply with the law. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-a-sovcit-licence-plate/980398/42 "2023-03-01T20:10:51Z")
But that’s what’s unfair. NH, and possibly other states, give their drivers a free ride and if they come to my state and hit/hurt me it’s on my dime to get justice.That’s bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-a-sovcit-licence-plate/980398/43 "2023-03-01T20:18:30Z")
Meh. I lived in NH and worked in MA. I had no kids in the MA schools, it was NH firefighters that would come if my house burned, and at most I used the roads. I still had to pay MA income tax. I didn’t think that was fair (and indeed, when I changed to a remote position MA seemed to think I should STILL pay them). People drive over the NH line to avoid MA sales taxes and (once upon a time) take advantage of the fact that NH didn’t prohibit liquor sales on Sundays. Lots of people thought that was unfair. We’re a Republic, and the states are allowed latitude over quite a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2023, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-a-sovcit-licence-plate/980398/44 "2023-03-10T03:51:35Z")
Here we see the real-world consequences: > **[Man Killed by Cops During Traffic Stop Had ‘Sovereign Citizen’ License Plate](https://www.vice.com/en/article/g5yxw9/utah-sovereign-citizen-chase-allan?fbclid=IwAR09LpPVklpOs-TjvysertQPjIZiDlR8EBah9NRXiHB-_Tz88KWtUCdpuCI)** > > Chase Allan was pulled over by Utah cops for not having a proper license plate. He said he didn’t need a registration and didn’t have to cooperate. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2023, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-a-sovcit-licence-plate/980398/45 "2023-03-10T04:00:46Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/3Vnn-SRE0yg/maxresdefault.jpg "Fatal Shooting of Sovereign Citizen/American National Chase Allan (UNEDITED BODYCAM)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vnn-SRE0yg) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2023, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-a-sovcit-licence-plate/980398/46 "2023-03-10T04:51:19Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > Here we see the real-world consequences: ‘Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.’ ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2023, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-a-sovcit-licence-plate/980398/47 "2023-03-10T14:03:19Z")
It’ll be a shame if the final result of all the investigation and 3rd party analysis was that 1. Yes, the guy was a self-declared SovCit nutbag and utterly uncooperative. 2. Yes, the guy had a gun in the car. 3. No, he made no attempt to reach for it or use it before the cops nervously opened fire. Far better for everyone if the guy had made a fully overt unmistakable attempt to get his gun or better yet to aim it at somebody before the cops finished the job. My bottom line: SovCits are pitifully deranged creatures whose supporting propaganda should be wound down. And they’re a _very_ hard problem for police to handle. But shooting any of them unnecessarily plays right into their narrative of overweening illegitimate police power. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2023, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-a-sovcit-licence-plate/980398/48 "2023-03-10T15:11:33Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Far better for everyone if the guy had made a fully overt unmistakable attempt to get his gun or better yet to aim it at somebody before the cops finished the job. I watched the video and never saw a gun. I was impressed by the cop’s professionalism and patience up until the moment they pulled the kid from the car, and I hope the investigation proves the shooting justified. It would also be great if the assholes who filled the kid’s head with that nonsense could somehow be held accountable. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2023, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-a-sovcit-licence-plate/980398/49 "2023-03-10T16:02:44Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > I watched the video and never saw a gun. Right hip at [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/3Vnn-SRE0yg/maxresdefault.jpg "Fatal Shooting of Sovereign Citizen/American National Chase Allan (UNEDITED BODYCAM)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vnn-SRE0yg&t=285s) shows an empty holster. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2023, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-a-sovcit-licence-plate/980398/50 "2023-03-10T16:06:50Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > empty holster I saw that, but no gun. Sure there’s probably a gun in the car, but the video doesn’t show the driver’s intent to use it. Not saying he didn’t draw it, but I wish the video made it more clear. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2023, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-a-sovcit-licence-plate/980398/51 "2023-03-10T16:11:46Z")
Not justifying the shooting but … When I was stopped on a traffic violation and the cop saw my CWP in my wallet, his hand went to his gun (but he didn’t pull it) and he asked if I had any weapons in the car. Considering how dangerous traffic stops are I considered it entirely appropriate. So it is not difficult to see how being an asshole SovCit refusing to follow police orders with a gun and empty holster is going to get you shot. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2023, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-a-sovcit-licence-plate/980398/52 "2023-03-10T16:40:18Z")
I want to go on record as opposing police murder even when they murder someone I disaprove of. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2023, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-a-sovcit-licence-plate/980398/53 "2023-03-10T21:21:33Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > It would also be great if the assholes who filled the kid’s head with that nonsense could somehow be held accountable. [That would be his mother](https://heavy.com/news/diane-allan-chase-mother/). ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2023, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-a-sovcit-licence-plate/980398/54 "2023-03-10T22:07:03Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > I want to go on record as opposing police murder even when they murder someone I disaprove of. I would modify this statement. I would say that I would go on the record as opposed to police using unjustified, especially lethal force against any party without absolute justification, even if the person is a of a group that I despise or am disgusted with. Despite the sheer number of unjustified police assaults including defacto murders, I won’t assume THIS instance is one until a complete investigation is done, and the fact that the deceased had a holster is at least semi-solid evidence that unlike some unproven claims in other cases, the firearm at the scene was likely their own, rather than a plant. Do I strongly suspect that the deceased was using his SovCit BS to wind up the cops, who were tense, irritated and sick of the shit and then overreacted when they noticed the firearm and attacked without true thread? Oh boy, yes, indeedy! And, yeah, his mother seems to be another true believer (although the SC infection could have been the other way around, the article doesn’t point to a starting point for this), although based on the article @Dr.Strangelove linked, seems to be able to keep it to confrontations with cops and the authorities. Seems to be able to keep her credentials as a realtor in order, and otherwise function in society, which seems to be party of the common thread for more ‘sane’ SovCits: abide by the rules that let them make money, but the moment any acts against -them- it’s all about “your rules don’t apply!” ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2023, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-a-sovcit-licence-plate/980398/55 "2023-03-10T22:12:47Z")
From the article linked by @Dr.Strangelove: > Being a woman of God, a living soul, of flesh and blood, of sound mind… 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2023, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-a-sovcit-licence-plate/980398/56 "2023-03-10T22:47:54Z")
Is the SovCit movement heavily intertwined with religion? If so, I did not know that. If so, it makes me want to form an atheist splinter movement. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2023, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-a-sovcit-licence-plate/980398/57 "2023-03-10T23:01:34Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > Is the SovCit movement heavily intertwined with religion? Apparently it depends on the particular flavor any given Citizen happens to claim. Here’s an article I found: > **[God's Law: Universal Truth According to Religious Sovereign Citizens](https://divinity.uchicago.edu/sightings/articles/gods-law-universal-truth-according-religious-sovereign-citizens)** > > In May of last year, police in Madison County, Tennessee, made a traffic stop of a kind that has been increasingly common in recent years. Officers pulled over a car with handmade license plates printed with the words “non resident 6-55-502—privilege... ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2023, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-a-sovcit-licence-plate/980398/58 "2023-03-10T23:02:45Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > Is the SovCit movement heavily intertwined with religion? There’s every variant you can imagine, though I haven’t heard of an explicitly atheist one. On the other hand, there a [Black supremacist version](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/moorish-sovereign-citizens) called “Moorish sovereigns.” It gets weird. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2023, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-a-sovcit-licence-plate/980398/59 "2023-03-10T23:17:05Z")
I know of the Moors, but didn’t know they were religious. I’m just a couple of miles from where they shut down the interstate. > **[Massachusetts I-95 standoff was with Rise of the Moors militia, police say](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jul/04/massachusetts-i-95-standoff-rise-of-the-moors-militia-police)** > > ‘Sovereign citizens’ charged with firearms offenses after troopers recover AR-15s, pistols and other weapons ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2024, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-a-sovcit-licence-plate/980398/60 "2024-01-03T13:06:52Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > . If so, it makes me want to form an atheist splinter movement If you do, I may subscribe to the newsletter. (Edit, this is a zombie of sorts, it has only been dead for 10 months) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-a-sovcit-licence-plate/980398.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-a-sovcit-licence-plate/980398.md?page=4)