# Saw Star Trek: Nemesis last night. Any questions? \*SPOILERS\* (probably) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 11, 2002, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065 "2002-12-11T19:05:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/61 "2002-12-15T01:05:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TheeGrumpy \* > \*\* > What I don’t get is how Enterprise can detect “positronic energy” from an inert android several light-years away, but a task force of starships doesn’t notice the raging battle on the other side of that green cloud. \*\* I didn’t understand why, when they did detect said positronic energy - they all turned to look at Data. I seem to recall ~Theyton~ (or whatever) radiation from the series - yet right after saying it’s ‘theoretical’ - they’ve got chapter and verse science and sensors to measure it. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/62 "2002-12-15T01:07:19Z")
Anyone notice the name of one of the Fed ships in the fleet (of a whole seven ships, i guess the days of DS9 are over) was named USS Archer? It was the last one. (along with Intrepid, Hood, Galaxy, and a few more i didnt catch) Oh, the movie? better than the last one, but worse than first contact. The fight scene was cool and all, but dragged on, with long periods of nothing happening but lame dialog. And they finally got around to making new Rommie Warbirds, nearly identicle to the way i would have designed them (i would have the wings more backwards slanted). Nice to see Wesley, and Guinan. Where was Barclay, tom Riker, and Papa Riker? (probably on Betazoid for the wedding). Admiral Lameway was a sore for sight eyes. I was hoping Picard would make a crack about hoping he doesn’t get lost. They could have at least made Tomalok the villian to stay with the Kahn ripoff. Movies i recognized: Star trek 2 Star trek 6 Star Wars Road Warrior Goldeneye (when he jumps from the motorcycle into the plane.) Nosferatu Invasion of the Neptune Men (kidding on last) ---
**Author:** ![SC\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@SC\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SC_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/63 "2002-12-15T01:19:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by carnivorousplant \* > \*\*What is a Halo Warthog and how does it violate the Prime Directive? \*\* In the FPS video game Halo, the protaginist and his marine buddies have the option of tooling around the landscape in a dune-buggy like wheeled vehicle called a [url=http://www.xbox.com/cms/images/games/halo/sim-halo-0011.jpg]Warthog\* In _Nemesis_ Picard, Data, and Worf go tooling around the landscape in a dune-buggy like wheeled vehicle that has a similar driver/passenger/gunner seating arangement. Where the prime directive comes into play is that the planet that they’re on is described as an early-industrial pre-warp society. They seem to make no special effort to avoid being detected by the local populace, and when the locals do show up, there’s a shootout/chase scene. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/64 "2002-12-15T01:19:06Z")
Janeway lives! ---
**Author:** ![SC\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@SC\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SC_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/65 "2002-12-15T01:20:27Z")
Messed up the link to the [Warthog](http://www.xbox.com/cms/images/games/halo/sim-halo-0011.jpg) in my previous post. ---
**Author:** ![TheeGrumpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheeGrumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheeGrumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/66 "2002-12-15T01:30:14Z")
How old was Shinzon supposed to be, anyway? Crusher notes that the age-acceleration was _not_ used on him (resulting in his convenient decay). So he must have been born, what, 20 years ago? More? Except that the Romulans had avoided contact with the Federation for several decades prior to the end of the first season of TNG – roughly 15 years ago. Which is why they dodged the question of how they acquired Picard’s DNA. But it still doesn’t explain – why him? Why the then-captain of the _Stargazer_? And the idea of “a chance for peace” baffled me, since last time I checked (DS9, I guess), the two sides weren’t at war. And they say _Nemesis_ is made for fans. Hmmph. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/67 "2002-12-15T02:12:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SC\_Wolf \* > \*\*an early-industrial pre-warp society. They seem to make no special effort to avoid being detected by the local populace, \*\* Doesn’t it just forbid giving them warp technology? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/68 "2002-12-15T02:47:40Z")
Nope - the Prime Directive demands total non-interference with pre-warp civilizations. A few episodes and one movie have been based on Federation anthropologists spying on primitive cultures. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/69 "2002-12-15T04:47:10Z")
Yeah, but they’re have also been ones where they couldn’t give something to civilizations who knew about it…there were two worlds trading in their solar system who wanted technology in a NG episode. I think the ‘duck blind’ in on e of the movies was for a primitive civilization. ---
**Author:** ![diku](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@diku](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diku)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/70 "2002-12-15T05:02:19Z")
If I was a Reman, I’d want to kill everyone because of that damn whoosing noise on the ship all the time. Sounded like an electronic arpeggio. Maybe that’s why he wanted to destroy Earth. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/71 "2002-12-15T07:36:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fouccalt \* > \*\*Am i the only one who actually enjoyed this movie? Other than the ending of course with the new, data model da-duh. I thought the remun ship was fairly badass looking with the abilities it had and the effects rocked like usual. And remember everyone, no matter how bad it gets there is Always ST3 and ST5 to suck worse! \*\* Actually, I felt ST 3 and ST 5 were better. At least they kept my intrest. This one, for some reason, had all the elements and should have been a good film, but wasn’t. I’m probably going to get flamed for this, but I felt that even insurrection was better then this. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/72 "2002-12-15T08:39:22Z")
I agree that it wasn’t the best Trek film, but I’m definitely glad they made it. It was better than most science fiction films. There were definitely some plot holes, and a few legitimate complaints could be made about it, but as usual, there are a lot of contrived or just bad complaints as well. Sigh… I will add one complaint to the list: if _that_’s full impulse, they’ll never get anywhere. Ah, I admit, I just wanted to see stuff happen faster! 😃 And it’s “Pop Goes the Weasel”, you freaking idiot!!! RRRGH! Shinzon’s desire to destroy Earth was not well-explained, but I can think of two good reasons. First, he would have the backing of the Romulans, at least at first. Second, Earth is a bigger target (since the Federation is the USA of the 24th century), and he’d probably only get one shot before the entire quardrant goes after him, so he ought to make it count. Picard says that he and Shinzon share “the same heart, the same hands, the same eyes” but that’s not true is it? Picard has an artificial heart. Speaking of which, considering the Syndrome that Shinzon mentioned in this film, and the mental disorder he has in “All Good Things…”, Picard has some pretty lousy genes. He couldn’t even hit two meters, poor guy. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/73 "2002-12-15T09:05:06Z")
When the two ships seperated, I thought it would have been kinda cool if Picard and the rest of the bridge crew had broken out the phaser rifles and just started shooting at the other ship. It wasn’t all that far away and I can imagine setting the forcefield to let phaser energy through. Phaser/laser rifles are kind of the bastard child of TV/movie sci-fi. You’d think they’d be so accurate and have such long range that no-one would ever bother with these dumbass hallway firefights when the two sides just blast away at each other and miss 99% of the time. Hmph. If a bunch of phaser rifles were turned over to a USMC fire team, they’d be shooting down aircraft and satellites with them in no time. At the very least, that “tailgunner” rifle Worf uses on the dune buggy should have some kind of ultra-futuristicky stabilizer so he can hit things accurately while they go bouncing along rough terrain at ludicrous speed. During Riker’s little fight, he at least realized that shining a bright light source could briefly blind his opponent. You’d think it would occur to somebody on the _Enterprise_ to turn all the hallway lights to maximum when they realized they’d been boarded. This dark, moody lighting is really starting to piss me off. Of course, these are minor nitpicks. Probably the biggest waste of a bit that should have been in the movie but wasn’t had to do with MiniPicard’s rapid aging. Instead of getting him all veiny and such, they should have gradually morphed him into Patrick Stewart! Then the face-to-face death scene would have been a LOT cooler. ---
**Author:** ![Dragonblink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Dragonblink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragonblink)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/74 "2002-12-15T10:06:48Z")
I noticed how Picard was a pretty bad shot with that thar laser rifle of his, until it was time to waltz onto the Reman bridge and take down a dozen guys with a single shot to each chest. And for the love of Og, how could _Data_ not have perfect aim? I can understand that the Enterprise E is designed more like a battleship than the Marriott Resort Class Enterprise D, but come on, a few 100 watts in the hallways, guys. The ending left me, I dunno, unsatisfied. I thought they were a little too heavy handed on the downer-ending-denouement stuff – I mean, they did lose my favorite character in the whole show, but 'e shouldn’t’ve gotten more post-death dramatic scenes than Spock! … and I’m glad I’m not the only one who was fighting yelling out “Pop Goes the Weasel! That’s what he was whistling, you idiot!” ---
**Author:** ![SC\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@SC\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SC_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/75 "2002-12-15T10:19:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by HPL \* > \*\*Actually, I felt ST 3 and ST 5 were better. At least they kept my intrest. This one, for some reason, had all the elements and should have been a good film, but wasn’t. I’m probably going to get flamed for this, but I felt that even insurrection was better then this. \*\* Probably? There’s no probably about it. ST 5 was horrid. So horrid in fact that the people in charge of Trek do not consider the events of that movie to be canonical. They didn’t really happen, in the ‘offical’ Trek universe. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/76 "2002-12-15T15:24:58Z")
The humor at the beginning of the movie was good. Remeber, in Trekdom, being Captain is BETTER than being an Admiral. Count me amoung those who didn’t understand Shinzon’s motives. I could see him mad at Romulus, and wanting to kill Picard, but Earth?? Other than it was a way to get the support of the miltary in his coup. In summary: It was OK I guess. Brian ---
**Author:** ![Ruffian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@Ruffian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruffian)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/77 "2002-12-15T16:12:23Z")
DeathLlama and I saw this last night. I thought it was entertaining enough; and heck, after all, it was free.\* But–pretty much, it was a decent TV episode. It didn’t seem very orginal or very involved, but I was amused no less than I would be a TNG episode, and more than that IMHO awful _Enterprise_. I, too, had a little MS3K going on in my head, particularly that whole fight scene with Riker and Viceroy. Everything about it was just so hokey. BTW, the pre-industrial planet has absolutely _awful_ aim. Warf’s isn’t much better. And the whole android thing just seemed bizarre–they just seemed so, “Huh, whaddya know. Well, let’s take him home,” as though he were a lost puppy. I hate to say this, but Ebert’s review seems sadly accurate. As it currently stands, the franchise seems a bit stale. (Of course, so does Star Wars. Perhaps it’s time for some new interstellar fantasy world juggernaut series?) As a final random comment, I recall back in the days the TNG was new reading Brent Spiner commenting on how he couldn’t play Data forever; how Data wouldn’t get wrinkles, gain weight, etc. And you know, watching the movie last night reminded me of that comment because “Data” _has_ gained weight and grown wrinkles. \*[sub]While attending _One Hour Photo_ on a triple-digit heat wave day last summer, the theater air conditioner broke. Yuck. They gave us free passes to use for whatever, whenever.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![TheeGrumpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheeGrumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheeGrumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/78 "2002-12-15T18:17:16Z")
> [@](#): > > posted by **Ruffian** > the pre-industrial planet has absolutely _awful_ aim. Warf’s isn’t much better. It’s a long-running joke (intentional or not, I don’t know) that the guy in charge of firing the phasers has the _worst_ aim. Worf can put out a spread of 4 photon torpedoes, and maybe one will hit. And he’s not much better with small arms. It makes me wonder if Klingons naturally have poorer eyesight that humans (since they have a keener sense of smell). Notice in the TNG episode “Birthright pt. 2,” we see a Klingon sport where you throw a spear through a rolling hoop, about 18 inches in diameter. The spear is thrown from just a few paces away, and the hoop doesn’t move very fast. But getting the spear thru the hoop is supposed to be really special! And another thing: It’s pretty lucky for Picard that the _Enterprise_ shields were blown to hell, otherwise his decoder-ring transporter gimmick wouldn’t have worked. Yet one more thing: as far as I can tell, Deck 29, where the Remun boarding party appeared, is at the bottom of the ship. Yet there was a bottomless pit, complete with rickety bridge. In fact, when Riker almost breaks the bridge because of his fat-assedness, I figured he was borrowing another “Kirk maneuver” – namely, from ST:Generations. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/79 "2002-12-15T18:53:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TheeGrumpy \* > Yet one more thing: as far as I can tell, Deck 29, where the Remun boarding party appeared, is at the bottom of the ship. It’s worse than that; it’s five decks below the bottom of the ship. 😛 In _First Contact_, Picard tells Lily that the Enterprise-E has 24 decks. Of course, in that very same movie, within 10 minutes, Lt. Hawke mentions deck 26. And that species on Kamiso… Kemiso… Komison… (DARN IT! I intentionally tried to remember the name of the system to make this point!) III was not pre-industrial; it was pre-warp, early industrial. So wheeled vehicles like that makes some sense. One more thing I kind of liked. Despite being ugly and enslaved, the Remans sure were intelligent and resourceful. The Viceroy could diagnose (and treat?) a Terran illness just by holding his hand to Shinzon’s chest. I wanted him to say, “Hmmm, you’re at 130 over 80, pulse rate 82.” Anyway, I’m glad they didn’t go with the stereotype of the monstrous-looking evil sidekicks are stupid too. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/80 "2002-12-15T19:40:03Z")
[Washington DC’s Arch Campbell:](http://www.nbc4.com/archonthearts/1836043/detail.html) No action, all talk, all boring. **Zero stars.** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065.md?page=5)