# Saw Star Trek: Nemesis last night. Any questions? \*SPOILERS\* (probably) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 11, 2002, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065 "2002-12-11T19:05:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/81 "2002-12-15T20:32:16Z")
Count me in the minority who kinda liked it. I like the whole nature vs nurture, identity is? your substance or your experiences? If Data’s memories are reactivated within B4, and it runs Data’s engrams, is it still B4 or Data? Reminded me of some GD threads! Mini-P’s motivation? Same as Picard’s. To accomplish something great … horribly great, but great. If you are not going to be remebered for the good you’ve done, then do something so awful that they’ll remember you forever. The same theme that ran through the split Kirk episode … to be a great leader you need to have a dark narcissistic side … you are great because you have learned how to channel it. Think _Get Smart_ - if only he used it for good instead of evil. Not great and plenty of nits to pick … we are supposed to like the Romulan bitch now? What she didn’t know that Mini-P was going to destroy the planet when she murdered her entire government? But still, I kinda enjoyed it. But oooo, Mini-P morphing into Picard as he aged woulda been way cool. That Bryan is SUCH a wise man! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SC\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@SC\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SC_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/82 "2002-12-15T20:34:56Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Achernar \* > The Viceroy could diagnose (and treat?) a Terran illness just by holding his hand to Shinzon’s chest._\* Funny I didn’t think Shinzon’s biological degeneration due to the fact that he was designed to be an accelerated growth clone but was never accelerated counts as a “terran illness”. And one possible explantion is that he’s not so much diagnosing and treating, merely observing the pain telepathically and using his telepathy to mask/block it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/83 "2002-12-15T21:06:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ruffian \* > As a final random comment, I recall back in the days the TNG was new reading Brent Spiner commenting on how he couldn’t play Data forever; how Data wouldn’t get wrinkles, gain weight, etc. And you know, watching the movie last night reminded me of that comment because “Data” _has_ gained weight and grown wrinkles. Well, that’s to be expected. He installed the latest version of Windows software on himself, and it was all bloated! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/84 "2002-12-15T21:17:46Z")
Just saw _Nemesis_ today. While it isn’t as good as TWOK as some critics wouyld have you believe, it IS better, IMHO, than _Generations, Insurrection, Search for Spock, & Final Frontier_. If there is a possibilty of another TNG movie, let’s hope Brent Spiner is busy that day. I don’t think I can handle “Data” as a big electronic kid. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/85 "2002-12-15T22:56:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bryan Ekers \* > \*\*Of course, these are minor nitpicks. Probably the biggest waste of a bit that should have been in the movie but wasn’t had to do with MiniPicard’s rapid aging. Instead of getting him all veiny and such, they should have gradually morphed him into Patrick Stewart! Then the face-to-face death scene would have been a LOT cooler. \*\* There is a scene in the trailer where the one morphed into the other - I can’t remember which direction it went. So I was waiting the whole time for MiniMe to figure out that he’d be just fine if he went through the accelerated aging thingy, thus turning into Picard. But alas, it never happened. ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2002, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/86 "2002-12-15T23:06:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fairblue \* > \*\*Who is Troi screwing in this movie? > > It kinda looks like Captain Picard in the commercials, but I don’t even want to go there. \*\* She is making love with her husband Will Riker. Her mind is invaded by the cloned young version of Captain Picard and then one of those ugly alien things. ---
**Author:** ![NardoPolo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecae2f/32.png) [@NardoPolo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NardoPolo)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/87 "2002-12-16T00:03:39Z")
I was the only one in the theater that laughed out loud when they said the Romulans must have gotten ahold of a strand of Picard’s hair to make the clone. Geez, I _hope_ it was meant as a joke. Also, at the beginning, when they said there was positronic radiation, I was hoping that maybe the bad guyz would actually be made out of antimatter (follows the mirror idea). If nothing else, it would have made that ramming scene a lot more interesting! ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/88 "2002-12-16T00:39:23Z")
Well, I liked it. God entertainment. And a worthy _Star Trek_. All of the nits are correct, of course. Let me post a few non nits. The Argo. An honest to god, semi-aerodynamic shape and winglets. No more Lego block shuttles. The cinema-verate (sp?) style of filming when on the planet where they found B4. Made you feel slightly uneasy, as though something wasn’t quite right. Very well done. The backfire mental link. Finally! Like tracing a crank phone call. With all the psycho stuff that Enterprise crew members have encounted over more than a decade, looks like someone actualy thought out how to react. The soundless scene after the ramming and pull out (hmmmm… so _that’s_ the sexual situation for the PG13). Good stuff. concern: I hope to Kahless that B4 isn’t featured in any major way after this. _Star Trek XI: Multiplicity_ (shudder) That is all. ---
**Author:** ![Helena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c68b51/32.png) [@Helena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/89 "2002-12-16T02:28:55Z")
When they showed the Argo, my husband leaned over and said, “Hey, weren’t they banned from that?” (obscure filk reference…) ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/90 "2002-12-16T02:47:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NoClueBoy \* > \*\*Well, I liked it. God entertainment. [snip] > \*\* No, no. That was Star Trek 5. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/91 "2002-12-16T02:53:08Z")
Bow down to the Cow God! Say it now and say it loud, I’m a cow and I’m proud! The few, the proud, the Cows. Um,… I actually meant… ah, screw it. Where’s my drink? ---
**Author:** ![bafaa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e480ec/32.png) [@bafaa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bafaa)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/92 "2002-12-16T03:32:01Z")
So much for the curse that only the odd numbered movies are bad. I didn’t like the movie for all the reasons already mentioned. As a Star Trek fan I think it’s a really bad sign that I was checking my watch throughout the movie and hoping it would just end already. By the way, since when is Troi telepathic? Seriously, did I miss something? They have always gone out of their way to say she is only half Betazed and as such is not telepathic but only empathic. Yet when mini-Picard sees her he says she is telepathic and empathic and then she pulls that trick where she finds the other guy using telepathy. And even is she was able to do that how the hell would it allow her target him with the weapons? Ahhh, who cares. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/93 "2002-12-16T03:43:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SC\_Wolf \* > Funny I didn’t think [what you were referring to] counts as a “terran illness”. > > And one possible explantion is that he’s not so much diagnosing and treating, merely observing the pain telepathically and using his telepathy to mask/block it. Yes, you’re absolutely right. I didn’t mean, of course, that it was an illness inherently human, but that it was an illness taking place in an organism completely different from himself. I shouldn’t have called it a Terran illness. And that’s a good possible explanation, but my point remains, he’s one sharp cookie. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/94 "2002-12-16T03:48:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bafaa \* > \*\* > By the way, since when is Troi telepathic? Seriously, did I miss something? They have always gone out of their way to say she is only half Betazed and as such is not telepathic but only empathic. \*\* Troi’s always been able to speak telepathically to her mom, f’rinstance. I think the explanation is that the other person also has to have some sort of telepathic ability for her to be able to communicate with them. ---
**Author:** ![SC\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@SC\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SC_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/95 "2002-12-16T04:08:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Achernar \* > \*\*And that’s a good possible explanation, but my point remains, he’s one sharp cookie. \*\* Maybe, maybe not. Member of a telepathic species that’s forcefully enslaved by another species, with frequent mention of the guards giving violent beatings? Could be those pain supression techniques are something every Reman learns before they even hit puberty. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/96 "2002-12-16T05:26:37Z")
This is perhaps my favorite Star Trek movie ever. > [@](#): > > _Originally by HPL_ > **Exaclty why was Mini-Picard chosen to be the Remus’s leader again?** Presumably because he master-minded the assassination of the Romulan senate. That would certainly get him a few votes. > [@](#): > > _Originally by Tuckerfan_ > **Oh, and correct me if I’m wrong, but when Mini-Picard ordered full reverse after being rammed by the Enterprise, shouldn’t he have simply dragged the Enterprise with him, rather than seperating the two ships?** Only if they were really locked together good. Otherwise, the inertia of the Enterprise would hold it somewhat in place, causing the ships to separate. > [@](#): > > **Also doesn’t it seem likely that the Federation would have said, “Hmm. Picard should have been here ten minutes ago, may be we should go look for him.”?** Maybe they did. Do you think they would have _found_ them in ten minutes? If they did, would help even arrive in time? I don’t see this as a serious criticism of the movie. > [@](#): > > **Couldn’t Mini-Picard simply have cloned Picard’s blood (since he had a sample of it) and used that, instead of doing the ol’ vampire routine on “daddy”?** Did he have time? > [@](#): > > **They use up their full compliment of photon torpedoes, does no one think of using the replicators to make more?** Is that even possible? Has any movie or episode of the show shown that it is possible to replicate an entire photon torpedo? It is cannon that some things are not replicable. For example, gold-pressed latinum. I would think that anything volatile enough to make a decent weapon like that would be something that wouldn’t be easily replicated. > [@](#): > > _Originally by Fiver_ > **There was no good reason why, after the first ramming/separation and Enterprise’s discovery that Scimitar’s primary weapon was still functional, Picard couldn’t just order a second ramming.** Shinzon’s ship is the ship that backed out after the collision. I don’t recall exactly, but were we given any reason to assume that their impulse engines even _worked_ anymore after the collision? Just about every damned other system was off line, even self-destruct. > [@](#): > > **And yes, as others have already said, Shinzon’s hatred of Earth and the Federation was totally unsupported by the story. It makes perfect sense he’d hate Romulans; no sense that he’d hate humans to the point of wanting to sterilize Earth.** As another poster pointed out, the Federation is the faction that is the most powerful. Wiping them out would not only rid himself of a powerful enemy, but would also win him the support of the Romulans (at least, that was the deal they appeared to have). After using the Romulans for his own purposes, he could then destroy them as he sees fit. Also, he knows that in order to survive he needs Picard. It appears to me that he erroneously believes that by destroying the federation, Picard will be more likely to surrender. > [@](#): > > _Originally by Corbomite_ > **I didn’t understand why, when they did detect said positronic energy - they all turned to look at Data.** Because, as they later said, the only known source of positronic energy is an android like Data. > [@](#): > > _Originally by Bryan Ekers_ > **The bad guy (who doesn’t look anything like Picard, except for the baldness, and certainly doesn’t resemble the young Picard we’ve seen in the “Tapestry” episode and elsewhere) took a sample of Picard’s blood, but for some reason didn’t take enough to cure his ailment, forcing that dumb chase. Bad guys never behave logically. They like to delay for no reason.** Shinzon is clearly depicted as brash and cocky. He has captured Picard and has no reason at all to suspect that Picard will escape. His overconfidence is his undoing. His actions may not be perfectly “logical”, but they make a lot of sense. > [@](#): > > **The genetics thing is actually kind of distasteful, implying that a genetic copy of Picard would naturally rise to the top of his local society.** I didn’t see this implied in the movie anywhere. Since he was intended to be a replacement for Picard, he was almost certainly given a very high quality of education. He was basically trained / programmed / grown to become just like Picard. He only had to rise to the top after he had already been given much training and education. > [@](#): > > **The deus ex plot point hinging on Troi’s telepathy is another tired premise. This guy meets Troi once and he’s ready to waste time doing a little mind-raping? Geez, pal, I know you’ve never seen a human (well, half-human) woman before, but why not take the free’n’easy nookie, like that Romulan babe who threw herself at you?** It is shown that he hates Romulans. They disgust him. I don’t think it’s stretching at all to imagine him taking a liking to the first female of the same species that he ever meets. > [@](#): > > **You’d think it would occur to somebody on the Enterprise to turn all the hallway lights to maximum when they realized they’d been boarded.** By the time they were boarded, they’d rerouted about all the darned power they had to shields. I doubt they were too concerned about raising the lights at that moment. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/97 "2002-12-16T05:54:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BlackKnight \* > It is shown that he hates Romulans. They disgust him. I don’t think it’s stretching at all to imagine him taking a liking to the first female of the same species that he ever meets. Actually, that just begs the question of why he didn’t waste Romulus when he had the chance. Why bother going for Earth at all? > [@](#): > > By the time they were boarded, they’d rerouted about all the darned power they had to shields. I doubt they were too concerned about raising the lights at that moment. Hmm… All the hallway lights: 10kWatts, maybe. Shields: 800 million billion zillion kiloWatts. I’d think they could spare _some_ juice. ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/98 "2002-12-16T06:15:53Z")
The thing that bothered me was that the Remans were able to build this super-ship in the first place. My friend commented that Remus had a lot of heavy weapons manufacturing, but this ship is up there with the Suncrusher in outright genocidal cheesiness. Come on, ‘perfect cloaking’? And god knows what were powering those shields, because even after a full firefight they were still at 70%. Also, in the Star Trek Encyclopedia, what is the complement of Photon Torpedoes? it makes me wonder how many they actually fired in the movie; didn’t look like more than 2 dozen or so. I guess the shields have been modified from First Contact, because when the Borg cube was firing at the Enterprise E then, the shield effect looked like a hazy ‘bubble’ around the ship. But in ‘Nemesis’, it was a much more form-fitting shell. Why didn’t the Scimitar deploy those Scorpion-class fighters it had? If anything, they would have made a diversion. Seemed silly that they didn’t, especially since the hanger got kind of, umm, smashed. ---
**Author:** ![SweetLucy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@SweetLucy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SweetLucy)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/99 "2002-12-16T07:06:08Z")
I just saw “Nemesis” today- I loved it! Now to be honest I have enjoyed all of the movies, even #5. They each have a different theme. I think my all time favorite is “First Contact.” I liked “Insurrection,” even though it was not as action packed, because it had a great message about respect for aboriginal peoples. I wish the romance between Picard and Anij (the 300-year young lady) would have been continued in “Nemesis.” ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2002, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065/100 "2002-12-16T07:08:43Z")
One thing about how Shinzin built such a great ship. I remember now, he wasn’t a slave miner his whole time with the Remans. He was a commander in the Dominion War, and led twelve successful campaigns. So he at least had access to _some_ resources. I don’t think that the equivalent of shuttlecraft are at all useful in starship combat. Although I may be overlooking something, I can’t remember any time that small craft were used like that. I wonder why, when the Scimitar was getting ready to fire at the Enterprise, they didn’t abandon ship. They still had all those little hexagonal escape pods. Maybe they didn’t have anywhere to go, being in the middle of the Rift. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saw-star-trek-nemesis-last-night-any-questions-spoilers-probably/142065.md?page=6)