# Say Amazon rainforest completely burns away, do we suffocate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 23, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-amazon-rainforest-completely-burns-away-do-we-suffocate/839117 "2019-08-23T16:44:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-amazon-rainforest-completely-burns-away-do-we-suffocate/839117/21 "2019-08-24T20:31:03Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > The reason people are burning the Amazon rainforest is not to produce barren earth; it is to create farms growing soybeans, etc. So you need to compare oxygen production and usage of rainforests vs that of modern agriculture. Except that the land that is uncovered is not very good farmland. All the value of the nutrients went up in smoke with the trees and plants. You can only get a few years out of it before you have to go burn down some more forest, and leave empty wasteland in your wake. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-amazon-rainforest-completely-burns-away-do-we-suffocate/839117/22 "2019-08-24T22:18:43Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Except that the land that is uncovered is not very good farmland. All the value of the nutrients went up in smoke with the trees and plants. You can only get a few years out of it before you have to go burn down some more forest, and leave empty wasteland in your wake. I have seen this several times. I do have to ask - can farmland not be remediated? We have farmland in the USA that has been in continuous use for several hundred years now. It hasn’t “run out” of nutrients - various fertilizers can, as I understand it, add the minerals and nitrates that get depleted with each years’ crops. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-amazon-rainforest-completely-burns-away-do-we-suffocate/839117/23 "2019-08-24T22:31:12Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > I have seen this several times. I do have to ask - can farmland not be remediated? We have farmland in the USA that has been in continuous use for several hundred years now. It hasn’t “run out” of nutrients - various fertilizers can, as I understand it, add the minerals and nitrates that get depleted with each years’ crops. The land in the US has soil that sometimes goes down for hundreds of feet. We lose several inches a year, but it still can last for hundreds of years. The land under a rain forest is not so deep. The soil is not as well established, it is less rich in nutrients to start with, and will easily erode. You _could_ cultivate the fields more carefully and get them to last much longer or even indefinitely, but that is a more expensive proposition than just burning down another few hundred acres of rain forest when your current fields die out. In the US, we took grasslands, and then we started growing grass on them. That’s all most of our crops are is modified grass. Going from rain forest to farm is a bit more of a shock to the system. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-amazon-rainforest-completely-burns-away-do-we-suffocate/839117/24 "2019-08-24T22:33:59Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > I have seen this several times. I do have to ask - can farmland not be remediated? We have farmland in the USA that has been in continuous use for several hundred years now. It hasn’t “run out” of nutrients - various fertilizers can, as I understand it, add the minerals and nitrates that get depleted with each years’ crops. To an extent, but only to an extent. And yes, [it did run out for a while](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_Bowl), even in parts the USA. The historical record is pretty clear that not all land is suitable as farmland, even if some of that land can be used as such for temporary periods. And even when there is good farmland, profitable crops and sustainable crops are not always the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Ficer67](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c57346/32.png) [@Ficer67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ficer67)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-amazon-rainforest-completely-burns-away-do-we-suffocate/839117/25 "2019-08-24T22:45:03Z")
Solutions to this problem… 1. Get people to stop burning/cutting the amazon rain forest down. 2. Everyone, everywhere should plant a tree. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-amazon-rainforest-completely-burns-away-do-we-suffocate/839117/26 "2019-08-24T22:47:36Z")
Not that everyone planting a tree would be a bad thing, but you’d need a heck of a lot more than one tree per person. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-amazon-rainforest-completely-burns-away-do-we-suffocate/839117/27 "2019-08-24T22:50:06Z")
> [@Ficer67](#): > > Solutions to this problem… > > 1. Get people to stop burning/cutting the amazon rain forest down. > > 2. Everyone, everywhere should plant a tree. The problem is is that the Amazon resides in countries that we cannot just make do what we want. They aren’t burning it for fun, they are burning it in order to grow food and cash crops. And everyone needs to plant more than just one tree. The emerald ash borer alone killed off about as many trees as there are people in the US. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2019, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-amazon-rainforest-completely-burns-away-do-we-suffocate/839117/28 "2019-08-24T23:16:58Z")
And in Africa and Southeast Asia, forests are being clear-cut or burned for rubber and palm oil plantations. If the Amazon was totally burned, we’d find some tribes and civilizations that we weren’t previously aware of (with interesting social and medical consequences) but honestly, it would produce so much smoke, the sun would be blotted out before we all died from anoxia. On a lighter note, all hail Plankton! [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/aPFO4pcLDPI/hqdefault.jpg "All hail plankton 2") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPFO4pcLDPI) ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-amazon-rainforest-completely-burns-away-do-we-suffocate/839117/29 "2019-08-26T14:51:47Z")
From Forbes: [Why Everything They Say About The Amazon, Including That It’s The “Lungs Of The World,” Is Wrong](https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/08/26/why-everything-they-say-about-the-amazon-including-that-its-the-lungs-of-the-world-is-wrong/#1fe74355bde0) I’m interested in 2 factual claims that this guy makes. [ol] [li]The claim that the Amazon is “the lungs of the world” is extremely overstated, because while the Amazon produces an enormous amount of oxygen, it also uses an enormous amount, and the net impact is insignificant.[/li][li]The level of fires currently burning in the Amazon is not significantly higher than the recent average levels.[/li][/ol] What’s the Straight Dope on these claims? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-amazon-rainforest-completely-burns-away-do-we-suffocate/839117/30 "2019-08-26T15:48:30Z")
Phytoplankton contribute 50-70%, and we are screwing that up. ---
**Author:** ![pieceoftheuniverse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7993a0/32.png) [@pieceoftheuniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pieceoftheuniverse)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-amazon-rainforest-completely-burns-away-do-we-suffocate/839117/31 "2019-08-26T16:03:24Z")
For the first claim, I can at least agree that [most of Earth’s oxygen comes from phytoplankton](https://earthsky.org/earth/how-much-do-oceans-add-to-worlds-oxygen), not trees. Trees are, roughly speaking, a neat way to temporarily store carbon. Trees [have a respiration cycle](https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/garden-how-to/info/can-plants-live-without-oxygen.htm), the same as we do - they inhale carbon dioxide during the day to help with photosynthesis, and exhale carbon dioxide at night. This isn’t a 1:1 ratio, though; a lot of carbon is sequestered as the tree grows. Of course, we’re not just talking about trees when we talk about the Amazon rainforest. There’s [a whole lot of other things going on that can negate the oxygen surplus](http://www.yadvindermalhi.org/blog/does-the-amazon-provide-20-of-our-oxygen). That said, losing the Amazon rainforest would still have a huge impact on the climate and carbon dioxide levels world-wide. For the second claim: [yes and no](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-49415973). The National Institute for Space Research (this is the Brazil agency) says that there is an 83% increase in the number of fires. The National Aeronautics and Space Administration (in the US) says that the overall fire activity in the Amazon basin is slightly below average this year. The answer depends on the scope: do you take the Amazon as a whole, which is more than just what is contained in Brazil? Or do you look just at Brazil, and wonder what could cause an 83% uptick? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-amazon-rainforest-completely-burns-away-do-we-suffocate/839117/32 "2019-08-26T16:08:11Z")
Amazon rainforest contributes about 5.5% of world oxygen. Depends what you mean by recent. This year’s fires are alot more than last year’s but well below what they were 10-15 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![PoppaSan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/poppasan/32/189_2.png) [@PoppaSan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoppaSan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-amazon-rainforest-completely-burns-away-do-we-suffocate/839117/33 "2019-08-26T16:26:53Z")
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation\_of\_the\_Amazon\_rainforest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation_of_the_Amazon_rainforest) > [@](#): > > Deforestation of the Amazon rainforest continued to accelerate in the early 2000s, reaching an annual rate of 27,423 km² of forest loss in the year 2004. > [@](#): > > Between August 2017 and July 2018, 7,900 square kilometres (3,100 sq mi) were deforested in Brazil – a 13.7% rise over the previous year and the largest area cleared since 2008. Deforestation in the Brazilian Amazon rainforest rose more than 88% in June 2019 compared with the same month in 2018. Current annual rates are less than a half of what existed during the late 70’s through the early 21st century. I do not know what percentage being burned is virgin rain forest and how much is previously burned scrub brush and grasslands. Can we blame the Trump -China tariff tiff for some of this? (same cite) > [@](#): > > Until 2006, a major driver of forest loss in the Amazon was the cultivation of soy, mainly for export and production of biodiesel and animal feed; as soybean prices have risen, soy farmers pushed northwards into forested areas of the Amazon. [Maybe](https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2019/05/10/for-american-farmers-chinas-soy-tariffs-are-least-of-their-worries/#70de152271f9) > [@](#): > > It seems China either has enough soybeans or has deserted its U.S. clients in favor of Brazil. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-amazon-rainforest-completely-burns-away-do-we-suffocate/839117/34 "2019-08-26T16:27:58Z")
For #1 it really depends on how you want to play the numbers. The Amazon is [historically been a good carbon sink,](https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aac78e) but due to reduced area that is trending to not be true. But historically the claims that: > [@](#): > > “The Amazon is often referred to as Earth’s ‘lungs,’ because its vast forests release oxygen and store carbon dioxide, a heat-trapping gas that is a major cause of global warming" So it is partially true, mostly due to tree growth and sequestration. While the data isn’t perfect for _oxygen production_ outside of the local area, the Amazon is about a wash, and the Boreal forests of the North are far more significant if you don’t define “sharing” as sharing to other geographic areas of the world. Consider that in per 100 acres of 100% forest in Minneapolis offsets oxygen consumption of 19 people per year; where that same 100 acres in Calgary would offset 28 people. As noted Cyanobacteria and Plankton produce more than 2/3 of the worlds O2. This this claim is false: > [@](#): > > “The Amazon Rainforest produces more than 20% of the world’s oxygen” Net O2 is when carbon is being locked away in a carbon pool that turns over very slowly, which doesn’t happen much in the Amazon. That said; we have evidence that deforestation is creating more drought which in turn causes more fires and more deforestation in the Amazon. There are many reasons to help Brazilians and other South Americans protect the rain forest but yes this 20% number is a very pervasive and incorrect urban legend. Unfortunately as pointed out in the article you posted using this type of urban myth does pose some barriers to reaching local ranchers and residents in what should be shared goals. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-amazon-rainforest-completely-burns-away-do-we-suffocate/839117/35 "2019-08-26T20:52:17Z")
[Moderating] We just had a thread on this (it’s still on the front page, started by **Velocity** ), but a lot has been posted to this one, too (started by **Fotheringay-Phipps** ), so I’ll just merge them. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-amazon-rainforest-completely-burns-away-do-we-suffocate/839117/36 "2019-08-26T21:26:37Z")
I can’t believe that so much wrong information has been posted in this thread. Ask yourself- if we burnt the entire Amazon rain forest, how much oxygen would disappear from the atmosphere? 20%? No. The answer is much less than 1%. Most of the oxygen in our atmosphere is fossil oxygen. It was created long ago by photosynthetic organisms that are long dead and buried; the reduced carbon that this process created is buried deep underground, some as coal and oil, but most in the form of kerogen distributed in rocks. Even if you combusted the entire living biosphere of Earth the atmosphere would only lose a percent or two of oxygen partial pressure. Sure, with a dead (burnt) biosphere, the oxygen constituent of the atmosphere would go down slowly, as the dead rocks of the atmosphere absorb it; but this would take hundreds of thousands of years.This is because the Earth’s crust and ocean is already pretty well oxygenated, so it can’t absorb much more without some sort of geological turnover. This is supposed to be the Straight Dope, people - try to get it right! ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-amazon-rainforest-completely-burns-away-do-we-suffocate/839117/37 "2019-08-26T21:43:32Z")
I meant to say …Sure, with a dead (burnt) biosphere, the oxygen constituent of the atmosphere would go down slowly, as the dead rocks of the crust absorb it… This is a tricky subject, and even now the exact figures are somewhat vague, but the oxygen level in our atmosphere was set long ago, and is much, much larger than the mass of the biosphere. Lots of oxygen has been created in the past, and lots of this oxygen is incorporated into sedimentary rocks; but a lot of carbon has also been incorporated into the crust too. Some of this carbon is released by volcanoes, but the current oxygen level is more-or-less independent of current-day oxygen production. ---
**Author:** ![MarvinKitFox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@MarvinKitFox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarvinKitFox)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-amazon-rainforest-completely-burns-away-do-we-suffocate/839117/38 "2019-08-27T20:11:19Z")
> [@DaveRaver](#): > > 20% of the world’s oxygen comes from the Amazon rainforest. That’s still pretty significant. Great quote, pity it’s false. The african rainforest is twice as large, and the oceans contribute 5-7 times more oxygen that the amazon rainforest. The real concern is irretrievable loss of biodiversity. There are, literally, thousands of species in the Amazonian forests that occur NO\_WHERE else in the world, not even in sanctuaries/zoos. A great many not even described yet, never mind studied in detail. And once lost, they will of course be irreplaceable. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2019, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-amazon-rainforest-completely-burns-away-do-we-suffocate/839117/39 "2019-08-27T22:30:32Z")
> [@MarvinKitFox](#): > > The real concern is irretrievable loss of biodiversity. There are, literally, thousands of species in the Amazonian forests that occur NO\_WHERE else in the world, not even in sanctuaries/zoos. A great many not even described yet, never mind studied in detail. And once lost, they will of course be irreplaceable. But our lives and future humans lives will go on. The flaw here is that Brazil is being paid what, a few tens of millions, not to use that land? It seems completely reasonable for them to convert their land into more economically useful things. Most of the value of these species is to tourists and scientists - and that may not justify such a colossal amount of land. Apparently the rainforest is quite fragile and destroying more than 20 percent of it is as bad as destroying it all. So might as well destroy it all… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2019, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-amazon-rainforest-completely-burns-away-do-we-suffocate/839117/40 "2019-08-27T23:25:00Z")
Most of the value of those species is to those species. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-amazon-rainforest-completely-burns-away-do-we-suffocate/839117.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-amazon-rainforest-completely-burns-away-do-we-suffocate/839117.md?page=3)