# Say hello to Markus, America's first legal gigolo **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 25, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-hello-to-markus-americas-first-legal-gigolo/526419 "2010-01-25T20:50:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-hello-to-markus-americas-first-legal-gigolo/526419/81 "2010-01-27T21:31:53Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > He’s talking about the penis. It won’t work with gross females. Trust me on this one. Still, like most jobs, experience helps. The guys that I know have gotten better at, uh, summoning their inner resources, so to speak, when the outer resources are lacking. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-hello-to-markus-americas-first-legal-gigolo/526419/82 "2010-01-27T23:32:44Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > A lot of men who hire female prostitutes do so for fellatio, so I imagine a certain amount of women would hire a male prostitute for cunnilingus. Hm 45 minutes of body massage and a female happy ending instead of actual intercourse? Perhaps if he was good at body massage and cunnilingus both I would consider it - my physioterrorist costs about 200 for a full body massage and no happy ending. ---
**Author:** ![myskepticsight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@myskepticsight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/myskepticsight)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-hello-to-markus-americas-first-legal-gigolo/526419/83 "2010-01-28T00:03:17Z")
Do not want. Butterface. His body is like my bf’s (thought bf not that defined in the stomach) but this dude has a caveman face. But I also would never want to see a gigolo even if I was hard up (hah) for some man lovin. It would just be weird because I don’t want to have sex with people I don’t know/like. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-hello-to-markus-americas-first-legal-gigolo/526419/84 "2010-01-28T01:19:25Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > You’re probably right. But it bristled me no end that \*\*eleanorigby \*\*extrapolated her “double standard” out of thin air, and then accused \*me \*of it. And then refused to go back and reconsider her misinterpretation. I didn’t accuse you of anything. > [@](#): > > Her tone of selfrighteous indignation–“What on earth do you think it is for female prostitutes?”–was entirely uncalled for, and didn’t put me in the most accommodating mood. The evidence being already there on the page, I didn’t feel compelled to bend over backwards to help someone whose accusations were extremely offensive to me, and invented out of whole cloth. The tone is all in your head. I didn’t get annoyed until I started typing in caps. They were simple questions. They still are, if you go back and reread w/o getting all worked up about it. Can such a small thing really cause such extreme offense? :eek: (sorry, I’m digressing). > [@](#): > > If she’s going to accuse me of that kind of aggravated misogyny, the burden of proof is on her; not on me to defend an unfounded accusation. There’s enough bullshit on this board without that kind of blindly kneejerk ignorance. I probably should’ve just gone with the “unworthy of response” thing, but that doesn’t work so well around here either. I never accused you (or anyone else here) of “aggravated misogyny”. As for the rest of your indignation… perhaps you should try deep breathing exercises. There isn’t a shaking head emoticon, so I’ll use this one instead. ☹ > [@](#): > > I’m still a bit flummoxed that this whole thing started with the selfrighteous indignation and utterly unfounded–and offensive–accusations made by eleanorigby, but it’s still being placed in my lap, as if I’m the one responsible. I started out mildly snarky–“read for comprehension”–and only escalated to fullblown sarcasm with eleanorigby’s continuing refusal to take responsibility for her accusation. What responsibility? For your misinterpretation of my “misinterpretation” of your quoting the word “horrifying”, used by your friends to describe their female clients? My puzzlement came from the use of that descriptor, applied (so it seemed to me) to all female clients of male sex workers. I did not realize your friends meant only the smallest of sample sizes–and where does it say that again-how are we to know just how many female clients contacted your friends? My assumption that most people do not find male clients of female sex workers to be “horrifying” is my own, and to me that is a double standard. I fully own that. I have no experience with the sex trade in any form, but I am absolutely sure that some of the men who frequent female sex workers are indeed “horrifying” (but I am digressing). I do not, however, find you **lissener** ,horrifying. Nowhere did I say I thought you subscribed to that double standard–I stated that such a double standard exists and I (repeatedly) asked you for clarification re your friends’ comments, to which I got obfuscation and childishness in reply. > [@](#): > > (A mea culpa from eleanorigby would fit quite nicely right about here.) Chance is a fine thing, laddie. To drag this sad thread back on topic, yes, I feel that $300/hour is a tad steep–and if that’s what Markus is charging, he will soon be on foodstamps, if he is not already, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-hello-to-markus-americas-first-legal-gigolo/526419/85 "2010-01-28T01:30:06Z")
Jesus Christ, fucking is supposed to bring people together, not tear them apart. Let’s get back to what’s important. [Here](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/01/22/2010-01-22_markus_the_countrys_first_legal_male_prostitute_is_now_ready_for_business_in_nev.html) is a closer picture of “Markus.” He looks very babyish and he has an ill-proportioned face with an egg shaped head and large forehead. David R. Snell, he ain’t. I’m surprised that of all the men out there, _this_ is who they choose to be their flagship gigolo. I don’t know any women _or_ homosexual men who would be turned on by this fellow. I see this plan backfiring very badly, and harts will be broken. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-hello-to-markus-americas-first-legal-gigolo/526419/86 "2010-01-28T01:38:05Z")
Nevertheless - if any woman here wants to visit Markus for the purposes of reporting back to us on his lovemaking abilities, I will contribute $75 towards the cost (totally serious.) ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-hello-to-markus-americas-first-legal-gigolo/526419/87 "2010-01-28T02:54:01Z")
anybody have a link to what he sounds like? Or was the interview with him only in print? ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-hello-to-markus-americas-first-legal-gigolo/526419/88 "2010-01-28T03:16:13Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > As I clicked on this thread, I thought, “This dude better be hot.” > > Now, I like me the big, meathead, buff, ex Marine men, but uh, he looks like his mom drank during her pregnancy. No, thanks. It just so happens that I can do vastly better for free. I was thinking the same thing! He kind of reminds me of Kat Plus 8’s ex a bit and I always wondered what she saw in him. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-hello-to-markus-americas-first-legal-gigolo/526419/89 "2010-01-28T03:20:29Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > \*\*Translation, without condescension: Lissener \*\*said “They got into it thinking they would get female clients, but first of all it just doesn’t happen very frequently, and secondly, the women who did contact them were horrifying.” The few (two, as it turns out) women who contacted them were horrifying. Not all women, just the ones who contacted them. It sounds as if \*\*eleanorigby \*\*thinks they think that all potential women clients are horrifying. They don’t, or at least not that we’re aware of. Good gravy, this was clear when he wrote that the women who contacted them were horrifying. The women that contacted his friends, not all women everywhere who contact male escorts. Sheesh. > [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > No, no, you are understanding it perfectly. Now \*\*Lissener \*\*can play the poor bullied martyr act that he loves to pull so much. It’s typical of him. Aha! Is that what the misinterpretation was all about? Your opinion of \*\*lissener \*\*coloring your understanding of his intent, even though that should have been painfully clear from his wording?Now on to the real point of this thread… > [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > As I clicked on this thread, I thought, “This dude better be hot.” > > Now, I like me the big, meathead, buff, ex Marine men, but uh, he looks like his mom drank during her pregnancy. No, thanks. It just so happens that I can do vastly better for free. Hilarious! Almost exactly my thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-hello-to-markus-americas-first-legal-gigolo/526419/90 "2010-01-28T06:31:09Z")
I think his neck is thicker than his cranium. Hard to see the appeal, but he looks sincere, at least. And he’s got those full, luscious lips… ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-hello-to-markus-americas-first-legal-gigolo/526419/91 "2010-01-28T12:25:51Z")
He looks like the issue of a one night stand involving a garden gnome and a gorilla. And the overplucked eyebrows are a bad move that only deepens the tragedy. And what a way to claim your fifteen minutes. His grandchildren will be so proud of him. Lets hope his line ends with him. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2010, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-hello-to-markus-americas-first-legal-gigolo/526419/92 "2010-01-31T05:45:45Z")
I asked one of my friends for his take on one aspect of this discussion. > [@](#): > > My name is Victor and I’ve been escorting for male clients for almost a year now. I consider myself straight and all my romantic partners have been female but after my experiences in escorting I’m glad that I have a 100% male clientele. When I first put up an ad on craigslist a long, long time ago I put it in the W4M section. I get the feeling that a lot of guys who are thinking about getting into escorting get the same idea and think, oh great, I can have sex with girls and get paid for it. That’s kind of what I was thinking but all the responses I got were from guys asking me if I’d see male clients. So I decided to take it slow at first and see how far I could go with a guy. Eventually I became comfortable giving and receiving oral, giving and receiving anal, etc. If you can do more, you will be more popular. So I tried to put myself at a distance from it mentally and see how much I could handle. > > After several weeks of gay for pay I got an email from a woman asking if I was still doing business (this was on my craigslist ad which I had stopped using after switching to a couple m4m sites). She was some homely 40 year old and I didn’t even answer her email. My attitude is this - I’d much rather have male clients because as a straight guy, I don’t even have any judgments or preferences about guys I have sex with because as a straight guy I’m not even supposed to be having sex with a guy. I see naked guys in the locker room at the gym every day and I don’t think a thing of it because I don’t have any reason to. On the other hand, I do have preferences about the kind of women I’m attracted to physically. I can see a naked or nearly naked woman and automatically be either turned on or really turned off. It’s a lot easier for me to just turn off my personal feelings with male clients and just go through the motions I need to perform to get the job done and get out of there. Also, there’s no emotional questions about sex with a guy for me. It’s always a business transaction, and it’s never personal. That boundary makes it easier for me to cope emotionally and mentally with the stress of escorting. I can only imagine the emotional and mental stress that female escorts handle when they’re forced to pretend like some hairy overweight CEO is their boyfriend or something. It seems counter-intuitive but gay for pay is way way way easier than it seems, unless you can’t hack it because you’re insecure about your sexuality or something. > > I would MUCH rather have a 100% male clientele than see female clients. A couple reasons: 1. You don’t get to choose your clients (especially in this economy) and your clients are not going to be hot girls in their 20s just calling you on a whim. HOT GIRLS DON’T PAY FOR SEX. That’s the point of calling an escort. You probably can’t get it unless you pay somebody. 2. Not many women pay for escorts PERIOD. 99% of male escorts are gay for pay. It’s the people who have never escorted in their lives who think they can get paid to have sex with women they’re attracted to. If you decide to go this route, good luck, you will NEVER make any money. Keep in mind, gay guys are the rich minority, that’s where the cash is. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-hello-to-markus-americas-first-legal-gigolo/526419/93 "2010-02-01T15:40:50Z")
I’m gonna bump this once because there was initially some interest in this, and I posted the above at an off hour. And because I’d hate to think I got my friend to spill his guts for nothing. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-hello-to-markus-americas-first-legal-gigolo/526419/94 "2010-02-01T17:02:12Z")
Well, I’ll chime in. The woman was not only a _crone of 40_, but apparently she was also _homely_. That is indeed _horrifying_. :rolleyes: I’ve seen enough episodes of Cops to know that doesn’t even come close to the level of horrifying that female prostitutes encounter. Also, I’m not sure I buy that your friend is interested in women for his romantic relationships. I don’t think I’m the only straight woman who would decline to have a relationship with a guy who made (or had previously made) his living sleeping with men. And if his attitude is that his future committed female partner, possibly his wife and mother of his children, doesn’t need to know that, that gives me the major “Icks.” So I’m thinking he’s narrowing the field in a way that’s not beneficial to a long-run attraction to women. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-hello-to-markus-americas-first-legal-gigolo/526419/95 "2010-02-01T17:44:33Z")
> [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](#): > > Well, I’ll chime in. The woman was not only a _crone of 40_, but apparently she was also _homely_. That is indeed _horrifying_. :rolleyes: Granted, I’m no hooker or anything, but I’m grossed out too when 40 year old, unattractive men hit on me. What is wrong for me having a sexual preference? And it’s perfectly fair: I’m a fat brunette girl- some folks are attracted to me and some folks are probably repulsed by the idea of banging a girl over a size 8. I’m not mad at that- we can’t control what turns us on and off. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-hello-to-markus-americas-first-legal-gigolo/526419/96 "2010-02-01T17:49:44Z")
I think the issue is that women prostitutes don’t have to be anything resembling turned on for them to be able to perform. Guys have to perform in ways that are difficult to fake. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-hello-to-markus-americas-first-legal-gigolo/526419/97 "2010-02-01T20:09:29Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > I think the issue is that women prostitutes don’t have to be anything resembling turned on for them to be able to perform. Guys have to perform in ways that are difficult to fake. Difficult, but not impossible. The majority of gay male porn stars are straight men. You get practiced at fantasizing; there is usually porn on a video screen just off camera–kind of like a teleprompter 😉 --there’s usually what’s known as a fluffer on hand, and nowadays there is often a little blue pill involved as well. Between those and just concentrating on the mechanics, believe me you’d be surprised what you can fake for $5,000 an hour. In addition to which, while fear and nerves will be a big obstacle to overcome your first time or two, once you learn that you can go through the motions, and still at the end of the day be 100% straight, it’s easier to give yourself over to the simple physicality of the act. 100% of the gay4pay guys that I’ve known have told me that doing gay for pay actually gave them a stronger sense of themselves as straight: they’d gone through the motions that many people assume would “turn” you gay if you did them, and discover that they are still the same person, are still romantically attracted only to women. Anecdotal of course, but still 100% within that caveat. And while of course many women would find such a past difficult to deal with in a partner, the men that I’ve know who’ve met their female partner during the time they were sex workers, as long as they meet them openly and are open from the start about what they do, of course it limits their field, as it were, but they can still have a strong romantic relationship. I have a friend who’s been doing this now for 8 years. He’s a relatively big name in the industry. He has a wife and two daughters. His wife manages his “personal appearances,” as he prefers to call them. She knows him as an honorable, honest, happy person who has a strange job. They have a great relationship. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-hello-to-markus-americas-first-legal-gigolo/526419/98 "2010-02-01T20:39:43Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Difficult, but not impossible. The majority of gay male porn stars are straight men. You get practiced at fantasizing; there is usually porn on a video screen just off camera–kind of like a teleprompter 😉 --there’s usually what’s known as a fluffer on hand, and nowadays there is often a little blue pill involved as well. Between those and just concentrating on the mechanics, believe me you’d be surprised what you can fake for $5,000 an hour. In addition to which, while fear and nerves will be a big obstacle to overcome your first time or two, once you learn that you can go through the motions, and still at the end of the day be 100% straight, it’s easier to give yourself over to the simple physicality of the act. Yeah, I was going with the “compartmentalization” theory from earlier too - straight but not being with women = “I’m acting! I’m just doing a job!” ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-hello-to-markus-americas-first-legal-gigolo/526419/99 "2010-02-02T03:39:18Z")
Women are more attracted to abstract ideas than men are. In a society where maturity is valued in a man, Markus looks immature and seems like he actually _is_ immature (insomuch as anyone who served in the Marines can be considered immature.) In a society that values success, Markus is publicly putting himself in a position of neediness and desperation (especially since his ex-homeless status is a matter of public record.) This doesn’t add up to an appealing profile for most women, even if he has the body of a “hunk.” ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2010, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-hello-to-markus-americas-first-legal-gigolo/526419/100 "2010-02-02T06:37:21Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Difficult, but not impossible. The majority of gay male porn stars are straight men. You get practiced at fantasizing; there is usually porn on a video screen just off camera–kind of like a teleprompter 😉 --there’s usually what’s known as a fluffer on hand, and nowadays there is often a little blue pill involved as well.[…] A fluffer? On hand? Never mind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-hello-to-markus-americas-first-legal-gigolo/526419.md?page=4)