# Say I want to move to North Korea **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 17, 2006, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-i-want-to-move-to-north-korea/361085 "2006-06-17T18:45:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2006, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-i-want-to-move-to-north-korea/361085/1 "2006-06-17T18:45:04Z")
I have no intention or desire to do such a thing (I’m quite fond of food, to say nothing of being allowed to surf the web and read real newspapers), but what if I did? I know Americans and most westerners can go on organized, escorted tours if they have enough money to do so. But what if I, as a born-and-raised American, decided to move to Pyongyang and settle down? Would they let me? Would I lose my American citizenship? If after a few years I decided to leave and somehow got out of North Korea, would the US take me back? Is this a question that’s simply too bizarre to have a real factual answer? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2006, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-i-want-to-move-to-north-korea/361085/2 "2006-06-17T19:49:12Z")
Dude by the name of Jenkins managed to move there quite easily and he didn’t lose his citizenship. What he did find kind of hard to do was move out of North Korea. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2006, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-i-want-to-move-to-north-korea/361085/3 "2006-06-17T20:18:25Z")
I’m not sure, but you might lose your citizenship if you were to join the North Korean military. Also working for the North Korean government could open you to charges of treason. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2006, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-i-want-to-move-to-north-korea/361085/4 "2006-06-17T20:33:45Z")
How would that open someone up to a charge of treason? Jenkins was not charged with treason and he certainly worked for the North Korean government. ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2006, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-i-want-to-move-to-north-korea/361085/5 "2006-06-17T20:47:08Z")
Partially relevent and perhaps of interest here, [Cecil’s info on renouncing your US Citizenship](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_229.html). ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2006, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-i-want-to-move-to-north-korea/361085/6 "2006-06-17T21:15:12Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > How would that open someone up to a charge of treason? Jenkins was not charged with treason and he certainly worked for the North Korean government. Treason is giving aid or comfort to the enemy. A prosection for treason requires either a confession in open court or two witnesses to the same overt act. That’s why prosecutions are so rare. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2006, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-i-want-to-move-to-north-korea/361085/7 "2006-06-18T00:08:02Z")
Is North Korea still counted as the US’s “enemy”. I realise that no peace treaty was ever signed, but isn’t there a statute of limitations on this thing? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2006, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-i-want-to-move-to-north-korea/361085/8 "2006-06-18T00:36:22Z")
[Consular Information Sheet](http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_988.html) ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2006, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-i-want-to-move-to-north-korea/361085/9 "2006-06-18T04:05:17Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Treason is giving aid or comfort to the enemy. A prosection for treason requires either a confession in open court or two witnesses to the same overt act. That’s why prosecutions are so rare. If you’re the one asserting that working there would be treason, it’s up to you to support your assertion with some evidence. Is North Korea officially an enemy? The US does not maintain diplomatic or consular relations, and there are frequent criticisms of the country by American government officials, but does that make it an official enemy for the purposes of a treason charge? What is the official US policy on this? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2006, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-i-want-to-move-to-north-korea/361085/10 "2006-06-18T04:38:09Z")
> [@Happy Clam](#): > > Is North Korea still counted as the US’s “enemy”. I realise that no peace treaty was ever signed, but isn’t there a statute of limitations on this thing? Yep. They hate us alot, we are their worst enemy according to their propaganda. And we have sanctions against them. During the Korean war some US soldiers defected to Korea. I assume they’d let you in nowadays, then they’d take all your money and either kill you or make you a slave though. North Korea is so hard up for money that they are running tours for S. Koreans to visit the country. The North Korea reality tours. From the Mouth of Babes, the official DPRK website. [http://www.korea-dpr.com/faq.htm#3](http://www.korea-dpr.com/faq.htm#3) Can I emigrate to North Korea and live in North Korea? It’s possible only in very special situations and having honor/merits. You must send a request letter stating your reasons, together with your complete CV, copy of your passport and certificates to [korea@korea-dpr.com](mailto:korea@korea-dpr.com) Most of those are lies though so I’m not sure how true no. 3 is. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2006, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-i-want-to-move-to-north-korea/361085/11 "2006-06-18T04:44:59Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > If you’re the one asserting that working there would be treason, it’s up to you to support your assertion with some evidence… I was asserting that working _for_ the North Korean government _could_ lead to being charged with treason. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2006, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-i-want-to-move-to-north-korea/361085/12 "2006-06-18T06:33:42Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I was asserting that working _for_ the North Korean government _could_ lead to being charged with treason. Fair enough. Did you pull that assertion out of your ass, or do you have some basis for it? ---
**Author:** ![sabatobello](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@sabatobello](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sabatobello)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2006, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-i-want-to-move-to-north-korea/361085/13 "2006-06-18T07:55:04Z")
According to the [a North Korea tourism FAQ](http://www.koryogroup.com/tips/index.html), North Korea’s socialist system is intended for those of Korean blood only. No idea how factual that is, but it would be something to consider. ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2006, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-i-want-to-move-to-north-korea/361085/14 "2006-06-18T12:54:33Z")
Why not go out there and have a look ? It would be like visiting East Germany in 1988, but much more interesting, as everybody in NK knows the outcome, but it is just negotiating the bridal price. Obviously the CIA will regard you as a potential spook, and the NK equivalent of the FBI will regard you as equally interesting. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2006, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-i-want-to-move-to-north-korea/361085/15 "2006-06-18T13:16:28Z")
I bet a westerner could manage to defect to NK and would be exploited for propagandistic purposes. There’d be no shortage of work for such a person, either, in the insular NK film industry (like the aforementioned Jenkins, who had played many bad guy roles in their movies), as a translator, in their nascent tourism industry, or perhaps in as some sort of spook, double agent, or propagandist. They might use the defector to test the loyalty of their tourism employees and of the ordinary person on the street, who isn’t supposed to speak to foreigners at all. But you’d be under constant surveillance for the rest of your life. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2006, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-i-want-to-move-to-north-korea/361085/16 "2006-06-18T14:33:19Z")
I don’t remember reports of Jenkins playing in any Northern movies; however, I do recall the reports of him working as an English teacher. His wife, a victim of North Korea’s kidnaping policy (IIRC), was working as a Japanese teacher. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2006, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-i-want-to-move-to-north-korea/361085/17 "2006-06-18T15:57:42Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I don’t remember reports of Jenkins playing in any Northern movies; however, I do recall the reports of him working as an English teacher. His wife, a victim of North Korea’s kidnaping policy (IIRC), was working as a Japanese teacher. He appeared in [Unsung Heroes](http://www.kimsoft.com/2004/jenkins.htm), a NK propaganda piece. I was stationed in Korea at the time, and I remember it being a big deal when intel identified him in the movie. That was actually the first I’d heard of Jenkins. You’re right about his wife being kidnapped by NK agents, though. _That_ was a fucking tragedy. For more first-hand information on this phenomenon, read [The Tears Of My Soul](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0688128335/sr=8-1/qid=1150646148/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-3262546-8258455?%5Fencoding=UTF8). These sorts of things are why I keep a close eye on North Korea when I can. It’s history is more tragic and interesting than any fiction I’ve ever read. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2006, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-i-want-to-move-to-north-korea/361085/18 "2006-06-18T23:56:05Z")
Thanks, Linty. About tragic life in North Korea, read _The Aquariums of Pyongyang: Ten Years in the North Korean Gulag_. For anyone considering moving into North Korea: remember that EVERYONE in the country is a slave to the government. Your freedom of movement is severely restricted to begin with and with no notice, the security apparatus can chuck you into a nightmare which, just maybe, you’ll get out of many years later. ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2006, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-i-want-to-move-to-north-korea/361085/19 "2006-06-19T00:37:56Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > For anyone considering moving into North Korea: remember that EVERYONE in the country is a slave to the government. Your freedom of movement is severely restricted to begin with and with no notice, the security apparatus can chuck you into a nightmare which, just maybe, you’ll get out of many years later. I imagine that would go double for _Americans_ who are crazy enough to want to move there. The default NK attitude toward Americans and most–if not all-other westerners is that they are espionage agents. An American living in Pyongyang would be at constant risk, assuming NK would allow him or her in, which I kind of doubt. There are scattered reports of Americans living in North Korea, either as unrepatriated POW’s from the Korean war or defectors after the war. Next to Jenkins, the most famous example is [PFC Joseph White](http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/northkorea/index.html?offset=45&s=oldest&), who crossed the DMZ into North Korea in August 1982. His fate was predictably brief and sad; used as a pawn by the North Korean government, he eventually drowned during a swim–in January. Other reports come from western tourists. One tourist reported how the tour bus driver got lost and had to make a three-point-turn on a side road next to a collective farm. The tourist spotted several westerners working in the fields. Another tourist was approached in a coffee shop by a westerner who identified himself as a defector who wished to return to the US (I kind of doubt this story, but I suppose it’s possible.). Still others report going to shops set aside for foreigners and seeing people with American accents shopping while dressed in NK garb. Unfortunately, I read these several years ago and I don’t have cites, but one thing I can pretty much guarantee anyone is that life in NK as an expat American would truly suck, and the only solace would be that you wouldn’t live long enough to suffer through old age. IMHO, one would be better off going homeless in the US. If nothing else, you would still have at least the semblance of freedom. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2006, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-i-want-to-move-to-north-korea/361085/20 "2006-06-19T00:41:15Z")
I roomed for a while with an NCO from White’s unit. Small world, ain’t it? He obviously had nothing good to say about the dude. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-i-want-to-move-to-north-korea/361085.md?page=2)