# "Say" instead of "for example" or "e.g." in writing? What's best? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 6, 2021, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-instead-of-for-example-or-e-g-in-writing-whats-best/953895 "2021-11-06T15:24:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JJAURELIUS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a183cd/32.png) [@JJAURELIUS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JJAURELIUS)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-instead-of-for-example-or-e-g-in-writing-whats-best/953895/1 "2021-11-06T15:24:56Z")
When I write, I usually begin a short illustrative aside, say, like this message, by using “say.” I could also begin that aside by writing, for example, this message; or writing, e.g., this message. In conversation, I use “say” or “for example,” but never “e.g.” What do you all think of using “say” this way? I can’t find it in grammar usage manuals, or dictionaries, but it’s widely used in magazines like _The Economist_ ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-instead-of-for-example-or-e-g-in-writing-whats-best/953895/2 "2021-11-06T15:27:23Z")
I use “say” in informal writing: say, on this message board. In more formal writing I would use “for example”: for example, if I was composing a work email. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-instead-of-for-example-or-e-g-in-writing-whats-best/953895/3 "2021-11-06T15:57:48Z")
I would use it in an article for publication if the tone were light or conversational. It’s quite common and I haven’t read any complaints about it. I also use e.g. at times when that seems to fit better. You’d need to be a pretty high level of formality to have it be inappropriate, say eight or above on the Mohs Hardness Scale. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-instead-of-for-example-or-e-g-in-writing-whats-best/953895/4 "2021-11-06T16:10:31Z")
I think in writing it can be overused. You can use it informally as mentioned above, but repeating it multiple times is tiresome to read, so I would use it sparingly and only in informal writing. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2021, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-instead-of-for-example-or-e-g-in-writing-whats-best/953895/5 "2021-11-12T00:42:52Z")
I never got comfortable with “say” in that way. I never use e.g. or i.e., because most people, like me, don’t know the Latin phrases. I’ve come to think of them as meaning “example given” and “in explanation.” I have perfectly useful English phrases to use instead. I get no thrill from confusing people with my knowledge of foreign words. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2021, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-instead-of-for-example-or-e-g-in-writing-whats-best/953895/6 "2021-11-12T17:19:35Z")
In formal writing I would use say only to prepare for later use. E.g., “If (a,b,c) is a primitive Pythagorean triple, then one of a or b, say a, is even and the other odd.” I would then make use of the fact that a is even. ---
**Author:** ![ASGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@ASGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2021, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-instead-of-for-example-or-e-g-in-writing-whats-best/953895/7 "2021-11-14T02:32:01Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > I never use e.g. or i.e., because most people, like me, don’t know the Latin phrases. Interestingly, I agree with Asknott here but use “eg” often. I’ve learned over time that casual folks I respond to don’t understand it. Sorry, I graduated high school in 1972 and understood what “e.g.” meant. If our educational system has failed this far I am disappointed. When I write USPS letters or e-mails, I use “e.g.” and expect my recipients to understand it. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2021, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-instead-of-for-example-or-e-g-in-writing-whats-best/953895/8 "2021-11-14T14:58:05Z")
This is a style issue, and so the question you must ask yourself is, “How do I want this to sound?” If you want it to sound conversational, use “say.” Where is your writing published? I get the Economist but have never noticed this usage; now I’ll have to keep an eye out for it. The Economist, for a journal with such heavy subject matter, uses a fairly conversational and informal style compared to something like the NEJM. If you want to dry it up a bit then use “for example.” I personally prefer to avoid “e.g.” except in parentheses. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2021, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-instead-of-for-example-or-e-g-in-writing-whats-best/953895/9 "2021-11-14T15:24:23Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I personally prefer to avoid “e.g.” except in parentheses. This is where I’ve gone, stylistically. I’ll still use the very occasional e.g., but I prefer “for example” because, why are we even using e.g. anyway? We – or at least I – don’t talk like that, and I tend to tilt my prose towards the colloquial. I’m similar with “i.e.” “That is” just sounds and looks better on the page to my eyes. (And enough people screw up “e.g.” and “i.e.” and what they mean – I’ve done it before unintentionally because we all have brain farts – that it’s just clearer to write out the English words than some arcane initialism in a dead language.) ---
**Author:** ![JJAURELIUS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a183cd/32.png) [@JJAURELIUS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JJAURELIUS)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2021, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-instead-of-for-example-or-e-g-in-writing-whats-best/953895/10 "2021-11-14T16:40:25Z")
Thanks for the comments. I’m glad to hear your opinions and mostly agree. Now I do use “i.e.” and “e.g.” a lot in formal legal writing, out of force of habit. But I tend to use “say” in writing _about_ legal or other issues, as i.e. and e.g. seem to me to be too formal or pretentious. And if “say” is good enough for _The Economist_, in my opinion the best single weekly source of what’s going on in the world, it’s good enough for me. And I’m just talking about the use in writing In talking or testifying, I never use e.g. or i.e., but find using “say” to be more natural in giving an example. And just to be clear for potential new repliers (not directed at the folks who have already smartly commented) who wonder what the heck I’m talking about, “i.e.” is the Latin abbreviation for “id est,” meaning “that is”; and “e.g.” is the abbreviation for the Latin “exempli gratia”, meaning “for example.” Anyone seen the movie “Get Shorty”? There’s a great scene with a couple of gangsters, John Travota and Dennis Farina, arguing about the correct use of e.g and i.e, joined in by the barber. Here’s the link to the scene, if this website allows it. For anyone in a rush, fast forward to about the 1:10 mark. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHSAml1BAR4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHSAml1BAR4) ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2021, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-instead-of-for-example-or-e-g-in-writing-whats-best/953895/11 "2021-11-14T16:49:17Z")
[quote=“JJAURELIUS, post:1, topic:953895”] What do you all think of using “say” this way? [/quote] It seems a bit informal to me; it’s really short for “Let’s say,” isn’t it? Perhaps “Suppose” would be better? ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2021, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-instead-of-for-example-or-e-g-in-writing-whats-best/953895/12 "2021-11-14T17:49:15Z")
> [@lobotomyboy63](#): > > It seems a bit informal to me; it’s really short for “Let’s say,” isn’t it? Perhaps “Suppose” would be better? “Say” is used in a way where you can’t substitute “suppose” word-for-word. _You are in the liquor store buying, say, a bottle of whiskey._ You can reword it to use “suppose” but not just swap it. _You are in the liquor store buying, let’s suppose, a bottle of whiskey._ On reflection, “say” is used to invite the reader to imagine a scenario which may not be factual, not simply to give an example. So even “for example” might not be an exact substitute. Suppose a newspaper article said: _Supply chain delays have slowed delivery of auto components, for example, computer chips._ It wouldn’t be quite right to say _Supply chain delays have slowed delivery of auto components, say, computer chips._ But it would be OK to say: _Given the current supply chain problems, it would be likely that future problems could delay delivery of, say, high-carbon steel._ ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2021, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-instead-of-for-example-or-e-g-in-writing-whats-best/953895/13 "2021-11-14T17:50:00Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > We – or at least I – don’t talk like that, I have heard people actually say “I E” when they speak and I think it sounds ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-instead-of-for-example-or-e-g-in-writing-whats-best/953895/14 "2021-11-14T17:52:09Z")
As that _Get Shorty_ clip shows us. 🙂 (Well, he uses “e.g.” for “i.e.” there.) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2021, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-instead-of-for-example-or-e-g-in-writing-whats-best/953895/15 "2021-11-15T03:54:07Z")
I agree with those who say it’s a style thing. I reserve “e.g.” for when I’m trying to sound scientific or formal in a similar sense. “Say” is very casual. “For example” is somewhere in the middle, and I may use it on the more casual end or on the more formal end. Then there’s always “Say, for example,” which has the sound of introducing a hypothetical. The others can be used that way, too, but need not be. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2021, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-instead-of-for-example-or-e-g-in-writing-whats-best/953895/16 "2021-11-15T19:43:03Z")
> [@solost](#): > > I use “say” in informal writing: say, on this message board. > > In more formal writing I would use “for example”: for example, if I was composing a work email. This. It depends entirely on what mood you wish to convey. It’s a tool. It’s a feature, not a bug.