# Say something nice about a pack of serial extortionists who are turning our gov't into a clown show **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 3, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-something-nice-about-a-pack-of-serial-extortionists-who-are-turning-our-govt-into-a-clown-show/645980 "2013-01-03T17:48:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-something-nice-about-a-pack-of-serial-extortionists-who-are-turning-our-govt-into-a-clown-show/645980/61 "2013-01-04T01:53:07Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > You’re the one talking about self-righteousness and moral superiority. I’m talking about what works. And it didn’t in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-something-nice-about-a-pack-of-serial-extortionists-who-are-turning-our-govt-into-a-clown-show/645980/62 "2013-01-04T01:55:42Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > You’re the one talking about self-righteousness and moral superiority. I’m talking about what works. Anger works. Getting in people’s face works. Refusing to shut up when told works. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-something-nice-about-a-pack-of-serial-extortionists-who-are-turning-our-govt-into-a-clown-show/645980/63 "2013-01-04T01:55:49Z")
Cite? (Except for the third part, obviously, which has nothing to do with civility.) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-something-nice-about-a-pack-of-serial-extortionists-who-are-turning-our-govt-into-a-clown-show/645980/64 "2013-01-04T02:00:39Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Cite? (Except for the third part, obviously, which has nothing to do with civility.) History. Or right now, the Republicans; they are disastrous because they are incompetent and evil, but their willingness to be angry and “uncivil” while the Democrats aren’t has given them their power. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-something-nice-about-a-pack-of-serial-extortionists-who-are-turning-our-govt-into-a-clown-show/645980/65 "2013-01-04T02:03:57Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] You’re the one talking about self-righteousness and moral superiority. I’m talking about what works. [/QUOTE] Richard, you’re being remarkably civil in this thread. How’s that working for you so far? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-something-nice-about-a-pack-of-serial-extortionists-who-are-turning-our-govt-into-a-clown-show/645980/66 "2013-01-04T02:07:22Z")
The GOP has power because they’re uncivil in discussions of policy. That’s your argument? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-something-nice-about-a-pack-of-serial-extortionists-who-are-turning-our-govt-into-a-clown-show/645980/67 "2013-01-04T02:09:13Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > The GOP has power because they’re uncivil in discussions of policy. That’s your argument? Some of it. As I said, just look at history; the angry, “uncivil” people tend to get a lot more accomplished. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-something-nice-about-a-pack-of-serial-extortionists-who-are-turning-our-govt-into-a-clown-show/645980/68 "2013-01-04T02:16:22Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > If roughly half the country supported those people … Consider that _thanks to Gerrymandering, Democrats Would Need To Win The Popular Vote By Over 7 Percent To Take Back The House_ [http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/01/02/1382471/thanks-to-gerrymandering-democrats-would-need-to-win-the-popular-vote-by-over-7-percent-to-take-back-the-house/](http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/01/02/1382471/thanks-to-gerrymandering-democrats-would-need-to-win-the-popular-vote-by-over-7-percent-to-take-back-the-house/) > [@](#): > > As of this writing, every single state except Hawai’i has finalized its vote totals for the 2012 House elections, and Democrats currently lead Republicans by 1,362,351 votes in the overall popular vote total. Democratic House candidates earned 49.15 percent of the popular vote, while Republicans earned only 48.03 percent — meaning that the American people preferred a unified Democratic Congress over the divided Congress it actually got by more than a full percentage point. Nevertheless, thanks largely to partisan gerrymandering, Republicans have a solid House majority in the incoming 113th Congress. The reality is that they are not basing their crazy opposition on what the majority of the American people think it should be the right thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-something-nice-about-a-pack-of-serial-extortionists-who-are-turning-our-govt-into-a-clown-show/645980/69 "2013-01-04T02:25:16Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > The GOP has power because they’re uncivil in discussions of policy. That’s your argument? It sure helps, especially in the off years, where it’s all about turning out your side. We lost 2010 because their side was angry and ours was basically depressed. 2006 was the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-something-nice-about-a-pack-of-serial-extortionists-who-are-turning-our-govt-into-a-clown-show/645980/70 "2013-01-04T02:30:09Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > If roughly half the country supported those people, there would be reason to say nice things about them too. They don’t; much of the population doesn’t even vote, and plenty who do just vote against people they hate rather than supporting a side. Both Republicans and Democrats are minorities. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-something-nice-about-a-pack-of-serial-extortionists-who-are-turning-our-govt-into-a-clown-show/645980/71 "2013-01-04T03:11:35Z")
Well, you get more flies with honey than with vinegar. 'Course, shit works better than both, so maybe that isn’t a very good point. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-something-nice-about-a-pack-of-serial-extortionists-who-are-turning-our-govt-into-a-clown-show/645980/72 "2013-01-04T05:40:36Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > I don’t really see the outrage. Sure one party is a bunch of corrupt warmongering corporate stooges who couldn’t care less about the common people (and the other party has Rs next to their names) but that’s the beauty of the system. Working as intended. The Framers never intended political parties to exist, did they? ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-something-nice-about-a-pack-of-serial-extortionists-who-are-turning-our-govt-into-a-clown-show/645980/73 "2013-01-04T06:03:07Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Those arguments are all bad ones because the cause and effect relationship is false and, even if it were not, the cause involves an important personal freedom and the effect is irrational and the responsibility of the irrational party. I’m not entirely following your point here, because, I think, you’re not entirely following mine. So let me try again. Conservatives (some [right here on this board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=481694), in fact) claim that they _would_ support this or that liberal politician or proposal, but the liberals are just too mean and shrill and hysterical. This of course, doesn’t stop the Conservatives from call Liberals “traitors” and “demons”. Somehow, Conservatives expect the onus to be on the injured party to act nice. Similarly, women are exhorted to be nice and laugh it off when they are insulted, and gay people are exhorted to be nice and quiet so they don’t offend anyone. The comparison I’m drawing is that in each of three instances, Conservatives think the onus is on the weaker party to make the more powerful party feel good about their actions. If we don’t act nice - Conservatives will try to make things harder for us. It’s not a perfect analogy. But the real analogy is not the different situations, but the Conservative reaction that leaves themselves free to offend and puts the onus on the offended not to react. > [@](#): > > By contrast, none of those things is true about the argument that angry rhetoric is less persuasive and just makes people angry. Sure. Duh, even. I’m not arguing that. I’m talking about how Conservatives consistently use angry rhetoric towards their opponents and then clutch their pearls and act all high & mighty if their opponents don’t take it and smile. > [@](#): > > (This post brought to you by the people who respond civilly when being disingenuously compared to misogynistic homophobes.) FTR, I don’t think you, Richard Parker, are a misogynistic homophobe nor did I intend to imply that. Sorry for not making that clear. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-something-nice-about-a-pack-of-serial-extortionists-who-are-turning-our-govt-into-a-clown-show/645980/74 "2013-01-04T16:03:14Z")
I know that there are decent individual Republicans, and that even Republicans who are in almost all respects morally challenged scumbags can have moments of decency – see my post about George W. Bush in the other thread – but that does not change the fact that the Republican Party as it is now constituted has morphed into a monstrous thing that has little or no interest in civic discourse or governing sanely. Therefore, polite discourse with Republicans is inappropriate and useless. The Republicans and conservatives who respond to polite discourse have NO influence on the Republican Party and the conservative movement. Pretending that you do is futile, nobody but you will believe it. And frankly, the Democratic Party has swung so far to the right over the past few years that any reasonable Republican who has not become a Democrat … soon will be. Because really, do you WANT to be associated with the treacherous scumbags who run the party now? If you DO, then we will call a spade a spade, only what we will be calling you will not be … a spade. The funny thing is that so many on this board think the Democrats are the answer. They are not. The Democratic political leadership is as owned by the plutocrats as the Republican political leadership. On economic issues, we do not have a two-party system any more. You think people on this board are mad now … wait until they figure that out … ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-something-nice-about-a-pack-of-serial-extortionists-who-are-turning-our-govt-into-a-clown-show/645980/75 "2013-01-04T16:10:26Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > … > > Consider that _thanks to Gerrymandering, Democrats Would Need To Win The Popular Vote By Over 7 Percent To Take Back The House_ > > [http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/01/02/1382471/thanks-to-gerrymandering-democrats-would-need-to-win-the-popular-vote-by-over-7-percent-to-take-back-the-house/](http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/01/02/1382471/thanks-to-gerrymandering-democrats-would-need-to-win-the-popular-vote-by-over-7-percent-to-take-back-the-house/) > The reality is that they are not basing their crazy opposition on what the majority of the American people think it should be the right thing to do. Who is “they”? I think the distinction is being obscured between conservative politicians and conservative people. I’m talking mostly about the latter, which seem, by election results, to be close to half the population. The point again, is that these people exist, however unfortunate you may think this to be. And the same way you fantasize about crushing them, they fantasize about crushing you. And the same nasty things that you can say about them, they can say about you. And the more nasty things that you actually say about them, and the more confrontational of an attitude you take about them, the more nasty things they will say about you, and the more confrontational of an attitude they will take with you. At the end of the day, that does not help the country as a whole, or even your particular cause. The only response to this that I’m seeing in this thread is, essentially “conservatives are such a bunch of evil Nazis that they need to be fought as hard as possible, and no amount of nastiness on our part will make any difference anyway”. If that’s factually correct, then I agree. But I think this is just hotheaded partisan thinking. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-something-nice-about-a-pack-of-serial-extortionists-who-are-turning-our-govt-into-a-clown-show/645980/76 "2013-01-04T17:24:55Z")
> [@](#): > > …which seem, by election results, to be close to half the population. Its the difference between roughly half, and shrinking, and roughly half, and growing. “Conservative” is accepting the facts of change and progress, but insisting on caution and prudence. Refusing to acknowledge change and resisting progress is “reactionary”. We now have the sordid spectacle of a party losing its grip on legitimate power, the power bestowed by voting citizens, to a party willing to use any means at hand to inhibit, stall and harass the legitimate power of their opposition. I am perfectly willing to negotiate with an honest conservative, respectfully. But this Republican Party got my contempt the old-fashioned way, they earned it. If they reverse course, I am perfectly willing to order up a fatted calf and throw a party. But they are trapped in a prison of their own devise. They have gerrymandered districts in such a way that moderation becomes almost impossible. I won’t pretend they had no Dems cooperation, gerrymandering is an exercise for incumbents who want to stay that way. But I am not a Democrat, their shame is not mine. And now it appears, to my wondering eyes, that raw money is not as powerful as it used to be. Praise the Lord, or Whomsoever it may concern! There is an odd sensation stirring in my breast. It may well be hope, I am unfamiliar with the feeling, so cannot be sure. Am I harsh, am I uncivil? Shit, you should have seen me in '68! But I was so much older then, I’m younger than that now. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-something-nice-about-a-pack-of-serial-extortionists-who-are-turning-our-govt-into-a-clown-show/645980/77 "2013-01-04T19:21:28Z")
# Say something nice about a pack of serial extortionists who are turning our gov’t into a clown show Because that’s what the opposing political party is, in my case, and there’s really no reason on God’s green earth to stretch to say something nice about them. Any more than I’d try to find something nice to say about Sauron, Lord Voldemort, Charles Manson, or the late Osama bin Laden, to mix real and fictional villains. I agree - I can’t find anything nice to say about the Democrats. They have been screwing us all over for years and making it appear that the Republicans are the ones doing it. I’ve lost track of the number of budgets that the Republican House has sent to the Democrat Senate that have died a messy death in the Senate because the House was trying to actually, you know, cut government spending by a reasonable amount. Oh, wait…you were trying to perpetrate the lie that it’s the Republicans’ fault. Sorry to piss on your parade with facts, but there it is. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-something-nice-about-a-pack-of-serial-extortionists-who-are-turning-our-govt-into-a-clown-show/645980/78 "2013-01-04T19:37:37Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Oh, wait…you were trying to perpetrate the lie that it’s the Republicans’ fault. Sorry to piss on your parade with facts, but there it is. It’s been so damn long since you’ve pissed on anyone’s parade with facts it’s a wonder you didn’t die of a massive bladder infection years ago. By the way, another juvenile drive-by already pulled that “I know you are, but what am I” shit earlier in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-something-nice-about-a-pack-of-serial-extortionists-who-are-turning-our-govt-into-a-clown-show/645980/79 "2013-01-04T20:41:32Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Who is “they”? > > I think the distinction is being obscured between conservative politicians and conservative people. I’m talking mostly about the latter, which seem, by election results, to be close to half the population. Just not the half that is in the majority, and by “they” I’m referring to the ones that use woo woo to justify many of their extreme positions, and not just against democrats, but in reality against most of the American people. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The point again, is that these people exist, however unfortunate you may think this to be. And the same way you fantasize about crushing them, they fantasize about crushing you. And the same nasty things that you can say about them, they can say about you. And the more nasty things that you actually say about them, and the more confrontational of an attitude you take about them, the more nasty things they will say about you, and the more confrontational of an attitude they will take with you. At the end of the day, that does not help the country as a whole, or even your particular cause. Nope, the effort that needs to be done is to contribute to candidates that will take on the woo woo proponents in congress (and the problem here is that you think it is the same coming from the other side, sorry but the evidence is on the side of the democrats on many important subjects at this time, evidence does not depend on my opinion you know.) > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The only response to this that I’m seeing in this thread is, essentially “conservatives are such a bunch of evil Nazis that they need to be fought as hard as possible, and no amount of nastiness on our part will make any difference anyway”. If that’s factually correct, then I agree. But I think this is just hotheaded partisan thinking. And as I’m not proposing this you must be directing this to others, but still the current crop of conservatives is voting (unwittingly? :dubious:) in favor of boneheaded moves to prevent sensible reforms in health care, emission controls and the economical well being of our nation, you bet it this is not the time to think about destroying them, just getting them out of office will do. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2013, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-something-nice-about-a-pack-of-serial-extortionists-who-are-turning-our-govt-into-a-clown-show/645980/80 "2013-01-05T00:19:21Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > …which seem, by election results, to be close to half the population. Actually about 47% and paraphrasing what a great speaker recently told “us” - we don’t have to worry about them. They don’t count and they can’t be reached. Fuck 'em. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-something-nice-about-a-pack-of-serial-extortionists-who-are-turning-our-govt-into-a-clown-show/645980.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-something-nice-about-a-pack-of-serial-extortionists-who-are-turning-our-govt-into-a-clown-show/645980.md?page=5)