# Say that there really is an omnipotent God and an afterlife. Is it best that we don't know? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 7, 2012, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-that-there-really-is-an-omnipotent-god-and-an-afterlife-is-it-best-that-we-dont-know/643257 "2012-12-07T02:03:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-that-there-really-is-an-omnipotent-god-and-an-afterlife-is-it-best-that-we-dont-know/643257/61 "2012-12-11T00:54:26Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > What would be the point of putting us in a “game”, and then allow us the ability to figure out that we’re in a “game”? > > Sounds like would kind of defeat the point. That assumes that we are the point, and not just some minor NPCs that the actual players may never even encounter. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-that-there-really-is-an-omnipotent-god-and-an-afterlife-is-it-best-that-we-dont-know/643257/62 "2012-12-11T05:23:43Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > What would be the point of putting us in a “game”, and then allow us the ability to figure out that we’re in a “game”? > > Sounds like would kind of defeat the point. . . . As **Der Trihs** notes, maybe that is the point. Alan E. Nourse had a lovely old sci-fi gasper, “Nightmare Brother,” where a guy was in a sim, and figuring that out was the big, vital, all-important step to freedom and sanity. That was the whole point. We figure it out. “Bloody hell! We’re in a sim!” The world dissolves, the credits roll, and then we see the horrifying legend: “Now Preparing To Enter Level Two.” Hell, what’s the point of letting us figure out quarks? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-that-there-really-is-an-omnipotent-god-and-an-afterlife-is-it-best-that-we-dont-know/643257/63 "2012-12-11T05:32:12Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That assumes that we are the point, and not just some minor NPCs that the actual players may never even encounter. [Our world’s most accurate news-paper comfortingly disguises the truth as “humor.”](http://www.theonion.com/articles/physicists-discover-our-universe-is-fictional-sett,28429/) ---
**Author:** ![damagedgoods](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecd19e/32.png) [@damagedgoods](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damagedgoods)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-that-there-really-is-an-omnipotent-god-and-an-afterlife-is-it-best-that-we-dont-know/643257/64 "2012-12-18T17:42:34Z")
Iknow I’m jumping on wagon late here,but 1rst off, god does’nt need to be moral,he IS,and who are we lowly minions to question his actions in these “hypothetical” situations ? Also, don’t the chrstn’s believe that satan fell to Earth & is now “Ruler” over it? It also seem’s we’re lacking viewpoint’s about non “Christ” believer’s view of their “white guy w/a beard” I’d like to hear "hypothetical"viewpoint from an “hypothetical’s” belief systom.Maybe even one that’s over, say 2050 something yr.s. old. Was it Nietzsche(I’m sure I spelt that wrong,but hey-we were’nt Born Perfect.Or Were We…) who said “Christianty is the great unholy lie.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-that-there-really-is-an-omnipotent-god-and-an-afterlife-is-it-best-that-we-dont-know/643257/65 "2012-12-18T18:05:49Z")
> [@damagedgoods](#): > > Was it Nietzsche(I’m sure I spelt that wrong,but hey-we were’nt Born Perfect.Or Were We…) who said “Christianty is the great unholy lie.” No-you spelled _Nietzsche_ right. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-that-there-really-is-an-omnipotent-god-and-an-afterlife-is-it-best-that-we-dont-know/643257/66 "2012-12-18T18:35:26Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > We figure it out. “Bloody hell! We’re in a sim!” The world dissolves, the credits roll, and then we see the horrifying legend: “Now Preparing To Enter Level Two.” Can’t be it. Our universe doesn’t feature [an ‘artsy’ monochrome orange filter](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avalon_%282001_film%29). ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-that-there-really-is-an-omnipotent-god-and-an-afterlife-is-it-best-that-we-dont-know/643257/67 "2012-12-19T11:46:55Z")
> [@damagedgoods](#): > > Was it Nietzsche(I’m sure I spelt that wrong,but hey-we were’nt Born Perfect.Or Were We…) who said “Christianty is the great unholy lie.” > [@Czarcasm](#): > > No-you spelled _Nietzsche_ right. Precious little else, though. ---
**Author:** ![damagedgoods](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecd19e/32.png) [@damagedgoods](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damagedgoods)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-that-there-really-is-an-omnipotent-god-and-an-afterlife-is-it-best-that-we-dont-know/643257/68 "2012-12-19T21:29:48Z")
That supposed to hurt my feeling’s? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-that-there-really-is-an-omnipotent-god-and-an-afterlife-is-it-best-that-we-dont-know/643257/69 "2012-12-19T21:39:45Z")
> [@damagedgoods](#): > > That supposed to hurt my feeling’s? It was a snarky comment on your excessive use of neologisms, unnecessary abbreviations, spelling errors, and other solecisms. It makes your post appear to be careless and sloppy, as if you don’t care how you present yourself. > [@damagedgoods](#): > > Iknow I’m jumping on wagon late here,but 1rst off, god does’nt need to be moral,he IS,and who are we lowly minions to question his actions in these “hypothetical” situations ? Also, don’t the chrstn’s believe that satan fell to Earth & is now “Ruler” over it? It also seem’s we’re lacking viewpoint’s about non “Christ” believer’s view of their “white guy w/a beard” I’d like to hear "hypothetical"viewpoint from an “hypothetical’s” belief systom.Maybe even one that’s over, say 2050 something yr.s. old. Was it Nietzsche(I’m sure I spelt that wrong,but hey-we were’nt Born Perfect.Or Were We…) who said “Christianty is the great unholy lie.” Saying “God doesn’t need to be moral, he IS” doesn’t answer any questions. We, as humans, are moral. We are moral individuals, and we have moral social institutions. If God is not a moral agent, then he is an insect, operating solely on unthinking tropisms. This is not widely believed, but was characterized by H.P. Lovecraft as “Azathoth,” an idiot God, endlessly creating and destroying, but incapable of thought. God might be like that: creating the universe the way you or I create a belch. No moral judgement involved at all. Unpleasant. If God is sentient – conscious, self-aware, able to comprehend the ideas of other minds, able to speak and to listen – without being moral, then that would make him the equivalent of a human psychopath. Also unpleasant. If, as many believe, God is also moral, then we have every right to ask what that morality really means, and how it is reflected in Creation. Some, but not all, Christians believe that Satan rules the earth. The more conventional viewpoint is that Satan has influence, but that influence is far from total. God is still in the driver’s seat; some prayers are answered; some miracles are granted; Salvation is evidenced in the world. (“Faith without works is dead.” Some hold that this applies to God as well as to mankind.) So, the rude comment to you was also a snarky dismissal of your simplistic summary of theological morality, which served only to shut doors, not to open any. ---
**Author:** ![damagedgoods](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecd19e/32.png) [@damagedgoods](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damagedgoods)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-that-there-really-is-an-omnipotent-god-and-an-afterlife-is-it-best-that-we-dont-know/643257/70 "2012-12-19T21:58:15Z")
I opened you’re “door”.\<\<\<\<\<\<\<\<\<\<\<\ **Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-that-there-really-is-an-omnipotent-god-and-an-afterlife-is-it-best-that-we-dont-know/643257/71 "2012-12-20T00:35:40Z") You should see what’s under the bed. ---
**Author:** ![damagedgoods](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecd19e/32.png) [@damagedgoods](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damagedgoods)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-that-there-really-is-an-omnipotent-god-and-an-afterlife-is-it-best-that-we-dont-know/643257/72 "2012-12-22T21:57:56Z")
Your slipper’s? ---
**Author:** ![MybackPacksGotJets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/278dde/32.png) [@MybackPacksGotJets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MybackPacksGotJets)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-that-there-really-is-an-omnipotent-god-and-an-afterlife-is-it-best-that-we-dont-know/643257/73 "2012-12-27T08:02:43Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > But being omnipotent he \*could \*be if he wanted, yes? He’s simply choosing not to exercise the full extent of one of his superpowers. So we’re back where we started. If He were not able to choose what power to exercise, when to exercise it and in what manner/quantity He would not be omnipotent. If He could be/is omnipresent yet couldn’t choose to make His presence undetectable, again He would not be omnipotent. Not exercising a power is not the same as not having a power. It’s like saying God can destroy everything so why isn’t everything destroyed? Not having complete mastery over your abilities would disqualify you from being truly omnipotent. > [@](#): > > The US president has limited powers, so the analogy fails right there - this all about the internal contradiction of a being with unlimited powers. But let’s run with this - say the President had been granted unlimited powers over every political entity and every person on earth. He uses them to re-appoint every head of state and government exactly as they were before (including himself), to grant each person exactly as must autonomy as (s)he had before. Does he then actually have unlimited powers, or does he have the powers he has today? You already answered the question when you said he was granted unlimited powers. It doesn’t matter that he doesn’t change anything, what matters is that he could, if he so willed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-that-there-really-is-an-omnipotent-god-and-an-afterlife-is-it-best-that-we-dont-know/643257.md?page=3)