# Say the states that wanted to secede did. Then what? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 15, 2013, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-the-states-that-wanted-to-secede-did-then-what/671272 "2013-10-15T02:19:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-the-states-that-wanted-to-secede-did-then-what/671272/61 "2013-10-17T03:12:24Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > We could move the inhabitants of Guam stateside, and let those folks who want to leave live there. If they can find it. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-the-states-that-wanted-to-secede-did-then-what/671272/62 "2013-10-17T03:48:59Z")
Texans do and will see themselves as the True Patriotic Red-Blooded Merkins, as opposed to all the bluish vermin they left behind when they secede. Texas is also a major oil producing and exporting state (soon-to-be nation). Do they compete against the evil Ay-rab Mooslim OPEC, or join them? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-the-states-that-wanted-to-secede-did-then-what/671272/63 "2013-10-17T22:31:37Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Texans do and will see themselves as the True Patriotic Red-Blooded Merkins, as opposed to all the bluish vermin they left behind when they secede. They only joined up in 1845. Seventeen years seems like a fair trial period. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-the-states-that-wanted-to-secede-did-then-what/671272/64 "2013-11-05T14:59:15Z")
> [@DrumBum](#): > > A somewhat different twist on this topic are [counties that want to break away](http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-10-14/why-are-so-many-counties-trying-to-secede-from-their-states). As the article notes, their chance of success is pretty low. We can’t have that! “Fifty” and “nifty” rhyme so well! What, pray tell, rhymes with “Fifty-one?” Curses to those in northern Colorado today! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-the-states-that-wanted-to-secede-did-then-what/671272/65 "2013-11-05T15:03:27Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > We can’t have that! “Fifty” and “nifty” rhyme so well! What, pray tell, rhymes with “Fifty-one?” Curses to those in northern Colorado today! Fifty-one does come trippingly on the tongue. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-the-states-that-wanted-to-secede-did-then-what/671272/66 "2013-11-05T18:31:57Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > I suggested a Constitutional Convention for a couple of reasons: First, a Constitutional Convention completely bypasses the Federal government. It is called by the states and ratified by the states. Article V: _The [COLOR=“Black”]Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments …[/COLOR]_ No, it does not bypass the federal government at all, in any way. It is not like a state-based initiative process. The Congress must call the convention. In fact, I believe there are hundreds of applications submitted by the states, even on subjects related to each other. Realistically, the Congress ought to have called a convention decades ago, they just seem to ignore these applications and probably always will. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-the-states-that-wanted-to-secede-did-then-what/671272/67 "2013-11-05T18:45:50Z")
> [@For You](#): > > Article V: > _The [COLOR=“Black”]Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments …[/COLOR]_ > > No, it does not bypass the federal government at all, in any way. It is not like a state-based initiative process. The Congress must call the convention. In fact, I believe there are hundreds of applications submitted by the states, even on subjects related to each other. Realistically, the Congress ought to have called a convention decades ago, they just seem to ignore these applications and probably always will. Congress seems to act as if a state’s call for a constitutional convention has an expiration date, which, though the terms are not explicitly written AFAIK, is reasonable. Let’s say that one state calls for a convention in 1800, and over the course of the next 200 years, another 35 sates call for it, one at a time and not for the same reasons. Is a vote from 200 years ago supposed to still count as a vote for a convention today? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-the-states-that-wanted-to-secede-did-then-what/671272/68 "2013-11-05T18:47:03Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > …What, pray tell, rhymes with “Fifty-one?” … Sixty-one. ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-the-states-that-wanted-to-secede-did-then-what/671272/69 "2013-11-05T18:55:56Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > We could move the inhabitants of Guam stateside, and let those folks who want to leave live there. It would just tip over. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-the-states-that-wanted-to-secede-did-then-what/671272/70 "2013-11-05T23:18:13Z")
> [@Gedd](#): > > What, pray tell, rhymes with “Fifty-one?” Nifty pun. ---
**Author:** ![Jay4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f1d935/32.png) [@Jay4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay4)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-the-states-that-wanted-to-secede-did-then-what/671272/71 "2013-11-06T01:27:58Z")
they’ll probably end up partying because they dont have to be under obama’s goverment anymore.but then,when a mexican cartel or the taliban ends up coming in and slaughtering the goverment they put in charge.they’ll wish they never seceded in the first place ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-the-states-that-wanted-to-secede-did-then-what/671272/72 "2013-11-06T02:50:47Z")
I haven’t read the whole thread, so I apologize if this has come up before: This time, just like last time, there were lots of people in the seceding states who opposed secession. In fact, there was violent rebellion against the Rebellion in the northern parts of (I think) MS and AL. Lincoln wasn’t about to abandon those people, though of course he had other political goals as well, and there were people in some parts of the Union, like Maryland, who wanted their state to secede. Slobodan Milosevic felt the same way about abandoning the ethnic Serbs who would be trapped in seceding republics, as well as all the Yugoslavs of any ethnicity who wanted to keep their country together. He had other goals too. And if you think those conflicts were bad, consider the partition of India! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-the-states-that-wanted-to-secede-did-then-what/671272/73 "2013-11-06T03:02:08Z")
> [@OurLordPeace](#): > > This time, just like last time, there were lots of people in the seceding states who opposed secession. Which did not matter at the time, secession was voted by state legislatures, not popular vote. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2013, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-the-states-that-wanted-to-secede-did-then-what/671272/74 "2013-11-06T14:45:22Z")
The RSA would fail almost immediately since it would be composed entirely of a citizenry who feel zero obligation at all to pay taxes to support a government. It would devolve pretty much straight into a redneck Mad Max zone. Probably with Ted Cruz as The Humungus. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-the-states-that-wanted-to-secede-did-then-what/671272/75 "2013-11-07T11:26:27Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Congress seems to act as if a state’s call for a constitutional convention has an expiration date, which, though the terms are not explicitly written AFAIK, is reasonable. Let’s say that one state calls for a convention in 1800, and over the course of the next 200 years, another 35 sates call for it, one at a time and not for the same reasons. Is a vote from 200 years ago supposed to still count as a vote for a convention today? It works that way for amendment ratification. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-the-states-that-wanted-to-secede-did-then-what/671272/76 "2013-11-07T13:05:53Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > It works that way for amendment ratification. I’m not certain, but I don’t think so. IIRC, the ERA failed because the ratification time ran out. It is dead now, even if 20 more states decided to ratify it tomorrow. But perhaps a ratification deadline was specifically built into it by Congress. It might be that they could pass an amendment on to the states for ratification without a deadline. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-the-states-that-wanted-to-secede-did-then-what/671272/77 "2013-11-07T13:36:55Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I’m not certain, but I don’t think so. IIRC, the ERA failed because the ratification time ran out. It is dead now, even if 20 more states decided to ratify it tomorrow. > > But perhaps a ratification deadline was specifically built into it by Congress. It might be that they could pass an amendment on to the states for ratification without a deadline. Indeed. The latest amendment, the 27th, was passed by Congress in 1789 and finally ratified in 1992. The inclusion of time limits on amendments is fairly recent, starting with the 18th if I’m not mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-the-states-that-wanted-to-secede-did-then-what/671272/78 "2013-11-11T09:23:28Z")
> [@OurLordPeace](#): > > I haven’t read the whole thread, so I apologize if this has come up before: > > This time, just like last time, there were lots of people in the seceding states who opposed secession. In fact, there was violent rebellion against the Rebellion in the northern parts of (I think) MS and AL. Free State of Winston/Republic of Winston > **[Republic of Winston](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_State_of_Winston)** > > The informal Republic of Winston, or Free State of Winston, an area encompassing the present-day Winston, Cullman and Blount\[citation needed\] counties of Alabama, was one of several places in the Confederate States of America where disaffection during the American Civil War was strong. In Winston County, this opposition became violent and had long-lasting political consequences—deep enough to generate a legend after the war that the county had seceded from Alabama. > Winston County is located in ... ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-the-states-that-wanted-to-secede-did-then-what/671272/79 "2013-11-11T10:05:41Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Indeed. The latest amendment, the 27th, was passed by Congress in 1789 and finally ratified in 1992. The inclusion of time limits on amendments is fairly recent, starting with the 18th if I’m not mistaken. There are currently three open-ended amendment proposals floating around. They have been passed by Congress and sent to the states for ratification with no time limit on when they expire. So at some future point, they could still be enacted. One of them is the Corwin Amendment. It banned the federal government from passing any law which would interfere with slavery in a state. It was passed by Congress in 1861 in an attempt to convince the southern states to stay in the United States. In 1963 (that’s not a typo) a Texas legislator introduced a bill to ratify this amendment. It was killed to committee. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2013, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-the-states-that-wanted-to-secede-did-then-what/671272/80 "2013-11-11T11:54:40Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > There aren’t really forty-two states that want to secede. Look at Texas, as a prominent example: a population of 26,000,000 of whom 60,000 signed a secession petition. The numbers are [larger](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_secession_movements#Other_discussions_of_secession_starting_in_2012) than that, although still a minority. > [@](#): > > After Perry’s comments received considerable attention and news coverage, Rasmussen Reports issued a poll and found that about 1 in 3 of those surveyed believed that Texas has the right to secede from the United States, although only 18% would support secession and 75% would oppose secession. In another poll, 60% of Texans surveyed opposed becoming an independent nation. However, 48% of Texas Republicans surveyed supported it. The reaction from outside the state was also strongly split, including those who wanted to get rid of Texas. > [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > The RSA would fail almost immediately since it would be composed entirely of a citizenry who feel zero obligation at all to pay taxes to support a government. It would devolve pretty much straight into a redneck Mad Max zone. Probably with Ted Cruz as The Humungus. :eek: I _don’t_ think I want to see a shirtless Ted Kruz… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-the-states-that-wanted-to-secede-did-then-what/671272.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-the-states-that-wanted-to-secede-did-then-what/671272.md?page=5)