# Say vagina, get suspended **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 6, 2007, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864 "2007-03-06T22:10:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/121 "2007-03-07T18:23:12Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] Not with regard to this particular word. [/QUOTE] I guess then we’ll have to agree to disagree. While I love vaginas (Honest! The more the better!), I see it as still being a bit taboo. And I’m not alone in that. If I walked up to a random woman in my workplace and asked “How’s your elbow?”, the worst that would happen to me is I’d be looked at a little strangely. If I asked “How’s your vagina?”, you can bet that someone would sit me down for a little talk. It’s not impossible that I’d get fired for sexual harassment. Maybe this speaks to the medieval mindset of society at large, but the sad truth is that speaking about one’s genitalia in public is still considered impolite at best. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/122 "2007-03-07T18:24:26Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] I’m not sure you realize how much you sound like a right-wing nutjob. They say pretty much the same thing about the standards they want to impose on others. [/QUOTE] Free speech does not “impose a standard” on anybody. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/123 "2007-03-07T18:25:40Z")
Whatever your position on this, I’m sure we can all agree that “We swan” will become the next SDMB catchphrase. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/124 "2007-03-07T18:26:54Z")
[QUOTE=tdn] I guess then we’ll have to agree to disagree. While I love vaginas (Honest! The more the better!), I see it as still being a bit taboo. And I’m not alone in that. If I walked up to a random woman in my workplace and asked “How’s your elbow?”, the worst that would happen to me is I’d be looked at a little strangely. If I asked “How’s your vagina?”, you can bet that someone would sit me down for a little talk. It’s not impossible that I’d get fired for sexual harassment. Maybe this speaks to the medieval mindset of society at large, but the sad truth is that speaking about one’s genitalia in public is still considered impolite at best. [/QUOTE] However, the school agreed that the subject matter was _NOT_ taboo. They gave permission to perform the excerpt, which is _about_ vaginas, but objected to the word that describes the subject matter. The stupidity of the whole thing defies all logic. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/125 "2007-03-07T18:30:41Z")
So what, exactly, is the excerpt? Until I can read the entire thing the girls read, I’m not prepared to accept that it was 100% about vaginas. I’m not familiar with the work. The part quoted seemed to me to be more about feminism in general. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/126 "2007-03-07T18:36:37Z")
[QUOTE=tdn] So what, exactly, is the excerpt? Until I can read the entire thing the girls read, I’m not prepared to accept that it was 100% about vaginas. I’m not familiar with the work. The part quoted seemed to me to be more about feminism in general. [/QUOTE] Not sure. I wonder if that reference in the second link (Facebook maybe? …whatever that is…) might have it. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/127 "2007-03-07T18:41:13Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] I do wonder if a reading contained the word penis, if all this nonsense would have ensued, though. [/QUOTE] Are you kidding? :rolleyes: Where do you get the idea from that we men are encouraged to go around being proud of our penises all the time? Or talk about them publicly (you know, like on a high school stage)? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/128 "2007-03-07T18:56:00Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] Where do you get the idea from that we men are encouraged to go around being proud of our penises all the time? Or talk about them publicly (you know, like on a high school stage)? [/QUOTE] Proud? Damn straight. On a high school stage? That’ll get you arrested. Mine is mightily magnificent, though. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/129 "2007-03-07T19:08:49Z")
Found it. My short skirt is not an invitation a provocation an indication that I want it or give it or that I hook. My short skirt is not begging for it it does not want you to rip it off me or pull it down. My short skirt is not a legal reason for raping me although it has been before it will not hold up in the new court. My short skirt, believe it or not has nothing to do with you. My short skirt is about discovering the power of my lower calves about cool autumn air traveling up my inner thighs about allowing everything I see or pass or feel to live inside. My short skirt is not proof that I am stupid or undecided or a malleable little girl. My short skirt is my defiance I will not let you make me afraid My short skirt is not showing off this is who I am before you made me cover it or tone it down. Get used to it. My short skirt is happiness I can feel myself on the ground. I am here. I am hot. My short skirt is a liberation flag in the women’s army I declare these streets, any streets my vagina’s country. My short skirt is turquoise water with swimming colored fish a summer festival in the starry dark a bird calling a train arriving in a foreign town my short skirt is a wild spin a full breath a tango dip my short skirt is initiation appreciation excitation. But mainly my short skirt and everything under it is Mine. Mine. Mine. So no, it’s not all about vaginas at all. It’s about a skirt. And omitting the word vagina, it still reads just fine. In fact, that’s how I found it on another site. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/130 "2007-03-07T19:12:02Z")
I imagine everybody in the audience was so upset that they left, and the poor guys doing a scene from [_Puppetry of the Penis_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puppetry_of_the_Penis) had to play to an empty house. Very unfair to those young performers, and deserving of severe punishment. Speaking of the punishment, how lame is it that each girl serves a separate, _in school_ suspension? How do they even do that? ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/131 "2007-03-07T19:15:20Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] Okay. Would you object to linking to a picture of your elbow? Would you object to linking to a picture of your navel? Would you object to linking to a picture of your vagina? Enquiring minds just want to know. [/QUOTE] Elbow, no objection. The other two, yes, mostly because if I generally keep a part of my body covered, I don’t want pictures of it on the internet. But that’s irrelevant. This wasn’t a slide show, it was a monologue. I would absolutely understand the outrage if they had pictures or used sexually explicit terms. They didn’t. The used a word that is completely and totally benign. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/132 "2007-03-07T19:26:59Z")
[QUOTE=NinjaChick] The used a word that is completely and totally benign. [/QUOTE] And so totally out of place it’s just silly, I might add. I have to say that I kind of like the poem, but “These streets are my country” is nonsensical enough. “These streets are my vagina’s country” is way out there in left field. What does it even mean? And the fact that all three girls said that one word together is not liberating, it’s trolling. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/133 "2007-03-07T20:00:13Z")
[QUOTE=ArizonaTeach] So our school is doing \*Grease \* for the musical this year. Does anyone really expect the line “She’s a real pussy wagon” to be in the play? [/quote] I know the “the chicks will cream” line stayed in when my high school did it. There wasn’t a single complaint or lawsuit that I’m aware of - other than my complaints that I hate _Grease_. > [@](#): > > This is absolutely not a free speech issue. If the kids had gotten on stage and said curse words for five minutes, ending with “First amendment, mother fuckers!” would it be defended here? Seriously? Which brings this right back to the original problem: a scientific, common, recognized-as-not-obscene word was equated with obscenities. > [@](#): > > It’s been awhile since I’ve seen _The Vagina Monologues_, but are you seriously telling me that there’s not a five-six minute section that doesn’t use the word “vagina?” I can think of one, but it’s about an old woman having an orgasm, which would arguably be more objectionable. > [@](#): > > hey, that’s not an original script note, is it? You know, reading the monologue as a trio? Damn kids were already messing with the text!) to emphasize the point. They probably said the word together to make their point, but if you’ve seen the show staged a couple of times, you realize that it’s very common to have the cast say certain words together. If that’s the end of the piece, it might be said that way anyway. The text is designed to be adaptable that way. > [@](#): > > These kids were not striking a blow for free speech. It’s not like they all got together and said, “this inability to say forbidden words in a public, school setting is infringing on my right as a human being, just like not being able to curse in thread titles is a blow to humanity.” I’d love to see your cite for that. To me, it doesn’t matter if the kids bucked the system on general principles or just for themselves. They were on the wrong end of a dumb and pointless rule, and I think that’s all the justification they need. ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/134 "2007-03-07T20:20:17Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] Why would you assume they’d list everything on the program except this one? [/QUOTE] **tdn** beat me to my response. [QUOTE=Kalhoun] (Bolding mine) I’m not the one missing the point here. [/quote] I, as you might imagine, beg to differ. > [@](#): > > The students decided there’s nothing wrong with the word and decided to buck the establishment. Maybe. Or maybe they decided, “hey! If we, like, use this word, then we’ll be striking a blow for Rosa Parks and against Hitler!” > [@](#): > > They agreed to something and then changed their minds after the stupidity of the agreement sunk in. So. . .when do you imagine the stupidity of the agreement (which I also think was stupid) sunk in? > [@](#): > > Too fuckin’ bad! If they were adults, they might have handled it differently, but they’re not. They were aware of the consequences and took it. I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that the ensuing publicity didn’t come from the school, but that it probably came from these girls and their attorneys. Seems to me that they handled it in a fashion in keeping with what I would expect from adults. Martyrdom complex? Yep. Publicity out the ass? Yep. > [@](#): > > Horseshit back at ya. There was nothing obscene about the reading as written. So you are also incapable of simple english comprehension. Good to know. Where have I claimed that it was obscene? Even once? Find that instance, and I’ll be waiting right here. > [@](#): > > There was no logical reason to edit it other than for length. Which happens all the damned time. Things get edited. Sometimes for length. Sometimes just for the hell of it. > [@](#): > > The move was misguided and the kids pointed it out. With that kind of stupidity at the helm they had no choice but to circumvent the system. Really? No choice? Are you sure you want to go with that? > [@](#): > > It doesn’t matter what the “community” thinks. The community, with regard to this incident, is misguided and needed an eye-opener. The fact that those in authority can’t see that doesn’t make it any less apparent. You’ve never been a school principal I take it. Hell, neither have I, but I know the tiniest amount about what a principal goes through, and certainly well enough to recognize that it matters a great deal what the “community” (and why the quote marks? What’d the “community” ever do to you?) thinks. The fact that you’re ignorant of the myriad aspects of dealing with a public school district speaks volumes. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/135 "2007-03-07T20:22:25Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] To me, it doesn’t matter if the kids bucked the system on general principles or just for themselves. They were on the wrong end of a dumb and pointless rule, and I think that’s all the justification they need. [/QUOTE] Excellent! ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/136 "2007-03-07T20:39:32Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] Are you kidding? :rolleyes: Where do you get the idea from that we men are encouraged to go around being proud of our penises all the time? Or talk about them publicly (you know, like on a high school stage)? [/QUOTE] Whoa. Where did that come from? I wasn’t impugning anything onto penises–one of my favorite body parts, btw. It just seems to me that penis is more accepted in what passes for social discourse than vagina, that’s all. Look at something like the Daily Show–Jon Stewart can call so-and-so is a dick, but I am sure he would be bleeped if he called so-and-so a cunt. And not to be snotty, but boys are indeed taught to be proud of their penis, unlike girls who are most often not encouraged to touch, look or interact with their vaginas in any way. Does that equate to a speech in front of a school audience that praises the penis? No, of course not. But I think that one reason the principal assumed others would be offended was because the mention of female body parts is this way is still looked at askance. I probably should have wondered about if they mentioned breasts instead–that would have been a better query. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/137 "2007-03-07T20:41:00Z")
[QUOTE=GLWasteful] **tdn** beat me to my response. [/QUOTE] My revised theory is that what was printed in the program was My Short Skirt, since that was the name of the poem. It wasn’t titled Woo Hoo! Vagina! ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/138 "2007-03-07T20:43:44Z")
[QUOTE=tdn] Woo Hoo! Vagina! [/QUOTE] Come on, you knew it was coming… Band Name? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/139 "2007-03-07T20:46:24Z")
[QUOTE=GLWasteful] Maybe. Or maybe they decided, “hey! If we, like, use this word, then we’ll be striking a blow for Rosa Parks and against Hitler!” [/quote] No, I think it’s more along the lines of what I said: **From the link:** > [@](#): > > Said in unison, and in solidarity, three high school juniors knew their fate for uttering what John Jay High School administrators deemed inappropriate. But they say they were willing to suffer the consequences in the name of artistic freedom of expression. > > “The word vagina has been arbitrarily declared taboo, which it’s not,” student Megan Reback said. “It’s a part of the body. We are women. We have vaginas.” > > “We figured to uphold the integrity of the piece, of the monologue and of what we believe, that it was the right thing to keep the monologue the way it was written,” Elan Stahl said. > [@](#): > > So. . .when do you imagine the stupidity of the agreement (which I also think was stupid) sunk in? Long before the performance. So what? Does it matter? They knew they’d run into a brick wall with Mr. Uptight Principal with No Balls, so they decided to circumvent the system. > [@](#): > > I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that the ensuing publicity didn’t come from the school, but that it probably came from these girls and their attorneys. Seems to me that they handled it in a fashion in keeping with what I would expect from adults. Martyrdom complex? Yep. Publicity out the ass? Yep. Where did you see that attorneys were involved? You’ll have to point that out to me. All I saw was that they knew they’d be suspended and chose to do it anyway. > [@](#): > > So you are also incapable of simple english comprehension. Good to know. > Where have I claimed that it was obscene? Even once? Find that instance, and I’ll be waiting right here. I never accused you of saying it. For the comprehension impaired (that would be you), the point I was making is that the only reason to edit it (for purposes of a high school reading) would be if it _was_ obscene or too lengthy. Since it wasn’t, there was no good reason to change the author’s words. > [@](#): > > Which happens all the damned time. Things get edited. Sometimes for length. Sometimes just for the hell of it. “Just for the hell of it” isn’t a good enough reason for most people. > [@](#): > > Really? No choice? Are you sure you want to go with that? You don’t honestly believe the principal would have given his approval after forbidding them to use the word, do you? In order to make their point, they had no choice. I suppose they could have given up, but why should they? He was wrong and they wanted to point it out. > [@](#): > > You’ve never been a school principal I take it. Hell, neither have I, but I know the tiniest amount about what a principal goes through, and certainly well enough to recognize that it matters a great deal what the “community” (and why the quote marks? What’d the “community” ever do to you?) thinks. The fact that you’re ignorant of the myriad aspects of dealing with a public school district speaks volumes. Hey…you can’t please all the people all the time. The principal assumed the audience would be offended. He based his decision on what \*might \* happen and on what _might_ make his life a bit difficult; not on any real threat. He’s a pussy. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/140 "2007-03-07T20:49:00Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] Whoa. Where did that come from? [/QUOTE] I would guess your claim that if a boy had said penis instead of a girl saying vagina, he would have gotten a free pass. Your claim very much came off as an “It’s a man’s world” double standard type of thing. But I am pretty sure that had a boy wanted to say “My street, any street, is my penis’s country”, the principal would have 86ed that as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864.md?page=8)