# Say vagina, get suspended **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 6, 2007, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864 "2007-03-06T22:10:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/161 "2007-03-07T22:45:07Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] Really. Not having a vagina, I couldn’t speak to the second part of that, but all I was taught about my penis was to leave it alone. Proud of it? Hah. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Well, to each his own, I guess…(I’m kidding!) > [@](#): > > Exactamundo. And when we get around to such a speech being acceptable - indeed, when a solemn, sober and male-liberating _Penis Monologues_ plays in theatres (as opposed to the clowning around that is _Puppetry of the Penis_) - we can start arguing for female parts being discriminated against. Lighten up, please. I’m all for a show about penises (penii?)–I have seen the VM and some of it deals with rape and the whole “good girls don’t”, as well as What Would Your Vagina Wear? (which gave me pause). Let’s work on a script for the male genitalia–afterall, VM was not a sure fire hit when it first came out. Why not one for the penis? Possible topics: Circumcision or not; writing your name in the snow; size and self image; toilet seat: up or down; does the scrotum matter? (ok, I’m kidding with that one); sodomy, stupid jokes about male genitalia–I dunno, I dont’ have one–you think of more. (I am kidding-insert laughter or slight smile here) > [@](#): > > Indeed. Since, as I remember, breasts can be mentioned in Christmas carols without anyone being offended. It’s not the fact that it’s female, it’s the fact that it’s genitals. Breasts are mentioned in Christmas carols? Which ones? :eek: I can’t call any to mind. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/162 "2007-03-07T22:48:52Z")
[QUOTE=GLWasteful] . So, well played ladies. You just fucked yourselves for the rest of your high school careers. Take a bow. [/QUOTE] Oh, come now. Plenty of people have been suspended and still gone to lead active, fulfilling lives. They even go on to college. Some are even able to be happy. They took their stand and now they take their licks. You pay your money and you take your chances, as my mother used to say. I don’t hold this against any of the girls; I doubt the principal or anyone else does, either. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/163 "2007-03-07T22:54:39Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] Oh, come now. Plenty of people have been suspended and still gone to lead active, fulfilling lives. They even go on to college. Some are even able to be happy. [/QUOTE] Not to speak for **GLWasteful** , but judging from the rest of the post, I would suggest that the point was probably that if these girls had actually wanted to perform the play in some meaningful way, they would most likely have been able to had they not chosen this insignificant little Open Mic Night to read a small portion of it and “take a stand.” Now, since they’re known liars, it’s probably unlikely the school will cut them the slack that would have been cut previously in order to perform the full play, or indeed anything slightly controversial. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/164 "2007-03-07T22:56:35Z")
[QUOTE=GLWasteful] Maybe you’re right inre their thought process. Maybe I am. Neither of us is gonna know now, though. I do seem to recall, through the mist-shrouded years, that sticking it top the man usually didn’t involve well-thought out soundbites. Maybe you went to a different school, though. [/quote] They thought about it: > [@](#): > > Said in unison, and in solidarity, three high school juniors knew their fate for uttering what John Jay High School administrators deemed inappropriate. But they say they were willing to suffer the consequences in the name of artistic freedom of expression. > [@](#): > > Immeasurably, yes. If it happened long before the performance, then the adult thing to do (sorta like adults get to say “vagina” onstage when they perform the show) would be to take it up with the principal and/or administration **then**. But they’re not adults. They’re kids. They weighed the punishment and decided it was worth it to make a point. > [@](#): > > Actually, he doesn’t sound all that uptight to me. Positively hip and groovy I’d wager. Here, let’s allow him to speak for himself: > Pretty straightforward. And note, too, that they aren’t being punished because of the word “vagina”, but because they used it in a place and context that they had promised they wouldn’t. Anyone who forbids the use of the word “vagina” in a reading from \*\*The Vagina Monologues \*\* is desperately _trying_ to be hip, but missing the boat entirely. > [@](#): > > And since it bears repeating once more: > The fucking superintendent said that they were welcome to perform the show. Yeah, but only with the icky words bleeped out. > [@](#): > > I didn’t see that. Point taken and I retract my accusation. Of course, nowhere does it say that they knew they would be suspended and bravely stood up to the slack-jawed, knuckle dragging cretin of a principal and said in a firm, clear voice, “Vagina!” either. Looks like we both read something into the link. Oopsie. See my quote a couple paragraphs up. They knew their fate. > [@](#): > > A thousand pardons, I beg of thee then. Y’see when you say things like:Then I have a tendency to think that you were claiming that I had said it **was** obscene. Clearly, your communicative powers are giving your comprehensive powers a run for their money. You’re attributing something to me that I simply didn’t say. Your tendencies toward erroneous thought aren’t my problem. Give it a rest. > [@](#): > > Not at all sure what the principal would have said. I do, however, have this quote from the superintendent:Golly! “As long as the intended audience knows what to expect, we don’t have a problem with it.” Thinga beauty, innit? The superintendent said that the students could have performed the entire fucking show. As written (since that, for some odd reason or another, seems to be a real issue with you). Not a reading. Not selections from. The whole. Fucking. Thing. And what’s more, the superintendent trumps the principal. Y’wanna lay odds on anything written before hand holding was popular being performed there anytime soon? If they wanted the audience to know what to expect, why didn’t they tell them up front? It was their duty to inform them if they thought it would create all the heartache and distress they anticipated when they censored the girls. I call bullshit on the superintendent’s after-the-fact statement. If he was willing to let the kids perform it as written, the incident would never have happened. They had every opportunity to give the audience a heads-up and maintain the integrity of the piece and they pussed out. Fucking cowards. > [@](#): > > Funny, the desire to point out the wrongness of the principal was something else I missed in the link. Maybe, though, you got the super-duper version. The one where the girls are artfully backlit. With fans blowing their cherubic hair around. And a special for each of them. With Roscolux 33. He’s wrong in the opinion of most sensible people. > [@](#): > > Which is, y’know, part of his job description. Proactive rather than reactive and other exciting new paradigms and suchlike. What would you have had the principal do in the same situation? I’d have told him to grow a spine and get his brain out of the frat house and into educator mode. > [@](#): > > Once more, since I imagine it’ll be overlooked: I doubt that anything that _might ever_ be construed as controversial won’t be performed anytime soon. So, well played ladies. You just fucked yourselves for the rest of your high school careers. Take a bow. You may be right. And the kids will take it as a challenge and burn him again. Heh-heh. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/165 "2007-03-07T23:17:31Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] Yeah, but only with the icky words bleeped out. [/QUOTE] I’m guessing you just pulled this out of your ass, but do you have any indication at all that it’s true, given that they’ve said they’re ok with it as long as the audience knows what to expect when they walk in the door? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/166 "2007-03-07T23:34:15Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] Lighten up, please. I’m all for a show about penises (penii?)–I have seen the VM and some of it deals with rape and the whole “good girls don’t”, as well as What Would Your Vagina Wear? (which gave me pause). Let’s work on a script for the male genitalia–afterall, VM was not a sure fire hit when it first came out. Why not one for the penis? Possible topics: Circumcision or not; writing your name in the snow; size and self image; toilet seat: up or down; does the scrotum matter? (ok, I’m kidding with that one); sodomy, stupid jokes about male genitalia–I dunno, I dont’ have one–you think of more. (I am kidding-insert laughter or slight smile here) [/quote] Of course. No matter how fair you try to be about it, the laughter and slight smiles are never very far away. 🆒 > [@eleanorigby](#): > > Breasts are mentioned in Christmas carols? Which ones? :eek: I can’t call any to mind. _In The Bleak Midwinter_ for one. It’s not included in all editions and it’s sometimes bowdlerised, but Christina Rosetti wrote: Enough for him, whom cherubim Worship night and day A breastful of milk And a mangerful of hay; Enough for him, whom angels Fall down before The ox and ass and camel which adore. And some older carols (“Upon my lap my Sovereign sits And sucks upon my breast” is one that I’ve sung before). But ITBM is unusual, I suppose, in being so blunt for a Victorian carol. Oh, and it’s “penes” if you want the correct Latin plural. “Penii” would pluralise “penius” (as “genii” does “genius”). ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/167 "2007-03-07T23:45:50Z")
[QUOTE=Garfield226] I’m guessing you just pulled this out of your ass, but do you have any indication at all that it’s true, given that they’ve said they’re ok with it as long as the audience knows what to expect when they walk in the door? [/QUOTE] Just a guess, based on how they handled _this_ oh-so-difficult situation. They had every opportunity to warn the audience when they did the excerpt. They chose not to. Why would they handle the full-blown version more liberally? ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/168 "2007-03-07T23:50:20Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] Just a guess, based on how they handled _this_ oh-so-difficult situation. They had every opportunity to warn the audience when they did the excerpt. They chose not to. Why would they handle the full-blown version more liberally? [/QUOTE] Presumably, an audience who bought a ticket to the VAGINA Monologues after hearing about a play called the VAGINA Monologues being performed at the school, and then buying a program which said VAGINA Monologues on it before going into the auditorium might have a better idea of what to expect than one going to an “Open Mic Night.” Just a guess. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2007, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/169 "2007-03-07T23:53:03Z")
[QUOTE=Garfield226] Presumably, an audience who bought a ticket to the VAGINA Monologues after hearing about a play called the VAGINA Monologues being performed at the school, and then buying a program which said VAGINA Monologues on it before going into the auditorium might have a better idea of what to expect than one going to an “Open Mic Night.” Just a guess. [/QUOTE] A simple sign on the door or mention in the program (or a posting on the school’s website!) would have clued everyone in. Simple. Their approach kind of takes the “open” out of Open Mic Night, don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2007, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/170 "2007-03-08T00:04:45Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] They thought about it: [/quote] So. . .you _did_ get the super duper version. Because none of that appears in the Fox link in post #1. And this: > [@Kalhoun's nifty news story](#): > > Said in unison, and in solidarity, three high school juniors knew their fate for uttering what John Jay High School administrators deemed inappropriate. But they say they were willing to suffer the consequences in the name of artistic freedom of expression. Yeah, uh huh. In unison and in solidarity. . .they’re not the IRA ferchrissakes. > [@](#): > > But they’re not adults. They’re kids. And the one thing that I most recall kids wanting when they (read: we) were adolescents was to be taken seriously. To be taken as adults. I kinda doubt that kids have changed all that much in the intervening years. And the first step toward being accepted as an adult is (are ya ready for it?) to act like a fucking adult. Hell, if that message could penetrate my addled pate as a lad, I imagine that these young ladies were smart enough to put two and two together. Of course, excusing them by saying “They’re kids,” is easier. But another thing I remember about adolescence was that _nothing_ was easy. > [@](#): > > They weighed the punishment and decided it was worth it to make a point. So. . .they. . .manned up? > [@](#): > > Yeah, but only with the icky words bleeped out. Y’see, this is where your inability to read the written word is getting in your way. Go back and read the OP, then read the link. Then show me where the superintendent said that the play could be performed with the word “vagina” Really, now. “icky bits”? And here you were the one saying that there was nothing obscene about the word. bleeped out. Once again, I will be waiting here when you finish your little exercise in futility. > [@](#): > > If they wanted the audience to know what to expect, why didn’t they tell them up front? It was their duty to inform them if they thought it would create all the heartache and distress they anticipated when they censored the girls. Why, pray tell, should the administration tell a group of parents and kids that things have changed and this year, they need to know that there will be use of the word “vagina” in tonight’s Open Mic Night? Was it done at last year’s Open Mic Night? Or, maybe, and I know this is gonna sound way out there, but stay with me here: The students could have performed the play, unredacted, in full flower and glowing from within, so long as they let the intended audience know in advance. Since it seems to have been missed last time, I’ll throw it out there twice: The fucking superintendent said that they were welcome to perform the show. The fucking superintendent said that they were welcome to perform the show. > [@](#): > > I call bullshit on the superintendent’s after-the-fact statement. If he was willing to let the kids perform it as written, the incident would never have happened. They had every opportunity to give the audience a heads-up and maintain the integrity of the piece and they pussed out. Have you ever been to an Open Mic Night? A talent show? Why should the school have given a heads up to parents and siblings (or so I imagine in my fevered imagination) that certain language would be used that they might find offensive? In what version of reality is that even the slightest possibility? These audience members, after all, were there to see Erasmus and Hank do their horse impersonation. Shit the bed, man. You’ve gone round the fucking bend here. And ultimately, it doesn’t matter what you call bullshit on. The quote is out there. Just as the overwrought stamping of feet and tossing of pretty hair quote that you used is out there. This is all sound and fury. > [@](#): > > I’d have told him to grow a spine and get his brain out of the frat house and into educator mode. Which is precisely why I don’t want you anywhere near the education of my child. For you see, you’re an idiot. > [@](#): > > You may be right. And the kids will take it as a challenge and burn him again. No way. This principal won’t, I’d wager, give these kids even the barest inkling of a skoshiest possibility of a snowball’s chance in hell of burning him. Again, you don’t understand public life. ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2007, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/171 "2007-03-08T02:01:21Z")
Holy hoo-hoos, the boards just explode when you don’t watch them, don’t they? I’ll keep up as best as I can… > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **Cowboy8647** > Actually, as the OP I do not feel that the girls are being punished solely for their utterance of the word vagina. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **WhyNot** > The item being discussed is a trio of girls who were suspended for saying “vagina”. Then my apologies for misconstruing, **Cowboy8647** , but I do feel that the title is inaccurate, if **WhyNot** ’s statement is to be taken into consideration. The girls were suspended for breaking the rules, including lying to the principal (if, indeed, they were always intending to say the word, which, I don’t believe, has been established, so I am fully ready to retract that). I doubt that a science teacher would be in trouble for saying “vagina” or a student perhaps doing a biology report and saying it any more than a student in one of my classes would be in trouble for reading a curse word out of the text while we read together. I will also not punish kids who refuse to read what they consider curse words from a book, and in fact have an excellent student this year who won’t say “God” or “Damn” when we come across it in a story. She just says “hmm-hmm” or something and keeps on going. As an aside, the word my students have the biggest problem with is “niggard” or “niggardly” when it comes up in Shakespeare. It makes the white students too uncomfortable, even after I’ve explained it to them. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **WhyNot** > I did Grease in high school. And yes, our Kenicke was told to repeat the “Draggin’ wagon” line instead of “pussy wagon” and change “the chicks’ll cream” to “dream”. And yes, on performance night he magically “forgot”. Seven performances, he “forgot”, in fact. If you can get your Kenicke to comply, you are the bestest director ever. I’ve seen a lot of high school productions of Grease, and it’s always been sung with the dirty bits in the end, no matter what the kids agree to during rehearsals. Heh. I guess this is a case where every person on the Dope needs a cell phone or _millions of people will die_. The productions I’ve seen make damn sure the kids don’t say it, or the understudy is performing the rest of the play. It might be a discipline issue, but every theater teacher is different. Some let them get away with it. Couple years ago the theater teacher was tired of the tradition seniors had to ad lib and goof off at their final performance, so she told the kids if there was any of that, not only would seniors never be cast in the final musical again (and you can bet the junior class was NOT happy to hear about that), but every end-of year activity would be cancelled, their last two months would be a living hell, etc, etc. There was no more goofing off. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **WhyNot** > But “vagina” is not a curse word, so what’s your point? Agreed, but it was on the spooky, but most definitely specific, “forbidden word” list, and that’s enough. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **WhyNot** > Sure, people have their foibles, but that doesn’t mean we have to enable them, or that we shouldn’t have community discussion about them. Agreed again, but is an open mic night with specifically laid out rules the place for that? > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **WhyNot** > You make decisions based on the good of the student, not the prevailing community attitudes, and that’s a good thing. Oooh, gotta disagree on that one. That’s the \*job \* of the principal, to take into account the prevailing attitudes of the community. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **WhyNot** > Welcome back. Please do keep posting. In fact, I’d be very interested, since you’re a speech team coach, as to your take on why scenes like The Bad Seed, Agnes of God (rape, pregnancy, sex with priests and _gasp_ SMOKING) and Metal of Honor Rag and The Laundromat and The Children’s Hour and Days of Wine and Roses are staples of forensics, while one solitary “vagina” in a non-sexual context is anathema. Thank you! I’ve been meaning to get my feet wet for years…but you guys are so damn intimidating (terrified…TERRIFIED of Diogenes). As far as forensics goes, I always told the kids to play to the audience. After a while they get a pretty good feel for the judges, and if it’s the elderly matron type, clean it up. If it’s a college kid you recognize for doing the raunchy humor piece last year, spike it up. I’ve had kids lose because they said “damn,” and I’ve had kids win with _Glengary Glen Ross_. I’ve had parents complain because the piece I gave the student dealt with breast cancer, and the only time in 13 years I’ve gotten in the least bit trouble was when I gave a kid a copy of Drew Carey’s \*Dirty Jokes and Beer \* to cut a piece from. The assistant principal said it was inappropriate, dutifully slapped me on the wrist, and then asked to borrow the book so he could read it himself. That’s how it goes. My two most successful pieces ever were a cutting of “Dream of a Thousand Cats” from the \*Sandman \* comic, and an absolutely hysterical cut an Hispanic kid did of Bill Cosby’s _Himself_. There’s so much more, but I think it all boils down now to people who think it’s appropriate and those who don’t, and I can’t imagine anyone saying anything one way or the other. I guess I leave with this thought: if a babysitter comes over with a copy of \*Cinderella \* or _Kill Bill_, and I ask him not to watch _Kill Bill_, and he watches it because he thinks that there’s no reason kids shouldn’t be exposed to that and I was supressing his free speech, there’s gonna be a problem. The principal truly, truly is the parent to the school, and the principal truly, truly gets to say what is appropriate for the school. He or she was placed there, for all intents and purposes, by the community (who voted for the school board who made the decisions). If the principal does NOT serve the community, he or she will be out the door. And at the next interview, “Why were you fired from your last job?” “Because I fought for three teenage girls’ right to say ‘vagina’!” Not going to happen. One last thought: on-campus suspensions. At my school, at least, an on-campus means you attend your classes but it counts as an absence (which could affect class standing, school awards and honors, expulsions and things like that). If you hit your maximum absences, you will not be granted an appeal if you had suspensions contributing to your total (as opposed to being pretty much automatically having an appeal granted for illness). You are also not allowed to participate in any activities that day (pratice, games, club meetings), and that might lead to other consequences from the coach. So, yeah, it can be a pretty big deal. Whew. ---
**Author:** ![LifeOnWry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2007, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/172 "2007-03-08T02:13:05Z")
[QUOTE=GLWasteful] No way. This principal won’t, I’d wager, give these kids even the barest inkling of a skoshiest possibility of a snowball’s chance in hell of burning him. Again, you don’t understand public life. [/QUOTE] I wouldn’t even say the principal got burned here. (Well, **here** he did, but this is after all a BBQ Pit.) I tend to think along the same liines as **WhyNot** , though her post was five pages back and I’m paraphrasing here. The principal OK’d this performance but asked the girls not to use that one particular word. They agreed not to and did anyway. The girls got in trouble - not gigantic, ruined-their-lives trouble, just suspended. Action = consequence. The girls seem to have gotten a little militant about it, but hey - when you’re a teenager, you’re testing boundaries and practicing at making a stand for what you believe in. This very minor act of civil disobedience let them accomplish their goal, and the punishment fits the “crime.” From what I read in the linked article, the principal isn’t even that badly bent out of shape that the girls disobeyed him. He doesn’t seem to have a personal issue here with the word, nor does he seem SHOCKED, SHOCKED I TELL YOU, that he was disobeyed. This was a little rite of passage, IMO, and everyone played their part as expected. If it DOES get into lawsuits and “call the ACLU and NOW and get Jesse Jackson in here, too, while you’re at it” - then someone has taken things too far. I still think it’s unbearably silly to OK a reading from The Vagina Monologues and insist that the word “vagina” be struck from the reading. BUT - that’s not what the article is about, really. Were I the principal, I would not have OK’d the reading in the first place. I would have suggested that there are plenty of other feminist readings that could have been performed instead, and are far less likely to stir up controversy. I think the girls wanted controversy - not that there’s anything wrong with that. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2007, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/173 "2007-03-08T04:35:56Z")
If I’m gonna get suspended for a word, then that word is poon-tang… ---
**Author:** ![stanger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ba0ec/32.png) [@stanger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stanger)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2007, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/174 "2007-03-08T05:25:42Z")
Well, I can see the girls getting in trouble for saying something they agreed not to say, but it saddens me that the word “vagina” was considered so offensive that it shouldn’t have been spoken. Back in 1968, when I was a sophomore in high school, I had to write a poem for my Speech III class. Naturally, I waited until the last minute and dashed something off in the class just before - a little whimsical poem based on the STAR TREK TV show, a new show that had only been on the air for a few months. Apparently the work of the other students in my class was pretty poor, for the class and the teacher thought my poem was the best piece submitted that day and I was praised for this twenty-or-so line of fluff that was thrown together in five minutes. The next day the teacher informed me that there was going to be a student assembly in a few days and some of her students were going to read some of their compositions at that time, and I was one of the lucky ones. Oh boy, lucky me. There was just one problem as the principal was upset about some of the wording.Two of the lines went something like “The captain has had a bit too much, and it’s all gone to his head”, which inferred that the captain had perhaps consumed some alcoholic beverage and was drunk. This was not acceptable. The offending lines must be changed so that no inference about alcohol can be assumed. I thought the whole idea of changing the lines was totally stupid and considered it censorship. Everyone in school knew that people drank and got drunk and saw it shown on TV all the time, so mentioning it in a parody poem is going be a problem? I refused to change the lines and was not allowed to perform the piece, nor was anyone else. Good thing because I certainly didn’t want to do it in front of the student body and thought the whole thing was stupid. I was also pissed off at being censored for such a simple little poem. So, things haven’t changed or improved that much in the last thirty nine years. Damn. This fight against ignorance seems to be a losing battle sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2007, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/175 "2007-03-08T11:34:55Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] And the school (we really don’t know what the audience thought about it, do we?) was trying to impose their standards on the girls. [/QUOTE] That’s what the school is _supposed_ to do. You’ve got the hierarchy upside down. The students aren’t there to run the school. Meanwhile, you’re dismising the school’s standards in favor of imposing your own. And you don’t even have a kid there! Same same for the religious right. They want to impose their rules on everyone else. Just like you do. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2007, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/176 "2007-03-08T12:43:14Z")
[QUOTE=GLWasteful] So. . .you _did_ get the super duper version. Because none of that appears in the Fox link in post #1. And this:Yeah, uh huh. In unison and in solidarity. . .they’re not the IRA ferchrissakes. [/quote] You got it, too. Read the whole thread, genius. It’s all pertinent. The other link is on the first page. The fact that you don’t want to see it doesn’t mean it’s not there. > [@](#): > > And the one thing that I most recall kids wanting when they (read: we) were adolescents was to be taken seriously. To be taken as adults. I kinda doubt that kids have changed all that much in the intervening years. And the first step toward being accepted as an adult is (are ya ready for it?) to act like a fucking adult. Hell, if that message could penetrate my addled pate as a lad, I imagine that these young ladies were smart enough to put two and two together. Of course, excusing them by saying “They’re kids,” is easier. But another thing I remember about adolescence was that _nothing_ was easy. If “adult” means sucking up to authoritarian morons, the world could use a few million more kids like these. Maybe in your world, where bowing to incomprehensible stupidity is the order of the day, no one ever challenges authority. Luckily, we’re not all living with our heads in the sand. > [@](#): > > So. . .they. . .manned up? What the fuck are you talking about? Get a grip. Take your meds. Come back when you’re feeling a little less disconnected with the conversation at hand. > [@](#): > > Y’see, this is where your inability to read the written word is getting in your way. Go back and read the OP, then read the link. \*\*Then show me where the superintendent said that the play could be performed with the word “vagina” \*\* (bolding mine) Really, now. “icky bits”? And here you were the one saying that there was nothing obscene about the word. bleeped out. > Once again, I will be waiting here when you finish your little exercise in futility. Jesus, you’re an idiot. I was responding to YOUR FUCKING STATEMENT: > [@](#): > > From YOUR FUCKING STATEMENT: > Not at all sure what the principal would have said. I do, however, have this quote from the superintendent:Golly! “As long as the intended audience knows what to expect, we don’t have a problem with it.” Thinga beauty, innit? **The superintendent said that the students could have performed the entire fucking show. As written** (since that, for some odd reason or another, seems to be a real issue with you). Not a reading. Not selections from. The whole. Fucking. Thing. And what’s more, the superintendent trumps the principal. Y’wanna lay odds on anything written before hand holding was popular being performed there anytime soon? Maybe you need to lay down and take a nap. This is obviously too taxing for you to follow along with. > [@](#): > > Why, pray tell, should the administration tell a group of parents and kids that things have changed and this year, they need to know that there will be use of the word “vagina” in tonight’s Open Mic Night? Was it done at last year’s Open Mic Night? The bigger question would be, “Why wouldn’t they if they thought the word might be offensive to a few people in the audience?” I realize you don’t think children have the right to express themselves regarding subject matter that may be controversial, but the community appears to be siding with the students; not the principal. In fact, according to The Journal News [http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070306/NEWS02/703060363/1209:](http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070306/NEWS02/703060363/1209:) > [@](#): > > The administrators’ decision to suspend the girls has caused an uproar within the school, with students making T-shirts and posters to protest the punishment. A group opposed to the suspension has been created on [Facebook.com](http://Facebook.com), a popular Internet networking site, and had attracted more than 350 members yesterday. > > **The move has prompted parents to write to the Board of Education and circulate e-mails calling the suspension a “blatant attempt at censorship.”** It sounds like the principal didn’t know the community as well as he thought he did. He underestimated their intelligence and is paying a higher price than he would have if he’d have just let them perform it as written. Regarding your misquote of my use of the term “icky bits” get your fucking sarcasm meter checked. > [@](#): > > Or, maybe, and I know this is gonna sound way out there, but stay with me here: The students could have performed the play, unredacted, in full flower and glowing from within, so long as they let the intended audience know in advance. > > Since it seems to have been missed last time, I’ll throw it out there twice: > The fucking superintendent said that they were welcome to perform the show. > The fucking superintendent said that they were welcome to perform the show. You’re off the beam, dude. I pity you. > [@](#): > > Have you ever been to an Open Mic Night? A talent show? Why should the school have given a heads up to parents and siblings (or so I imagine in my fevered imagination) that certain language would be used that they might find offensive? In what version of reality is that even the slightest possibility? These audience members, after all, were there to see Erasmus and Hank do their horse impersonation. Shit the bed, man. You’ve gone round the fucking bend here. And maybe you’re the one who has no fucking clue regarding what the “Open” part of Open Mic means. Hint: it ain’t a talent show. And what makes you think the audience didn’t _also_ contain friends and family of the girls who uttered the forbidden word? > [@](#): > > And ultimately, it doesn’t matter what you call bullshit on. The quote is out there. Just as the overwrought stamping of feet and tossing of pretty hair quote that you used is out there. This is all sound and fury. What he said he \*would have \* allowed and what the school \*actually did \* are diametrically opposed. If they were so fearful of community reaction to the single utterance of the word “vagina”, I have a hard time seeing them allowing the whole performance, which is considerably more controversial, both in subject matter and language. The word is used over 100 times in the entire performance. > [@](#): > > Which is precisely why I don’t want you anywhere near the education of my child. For you see, you’re an idiot. Undoing the psychological damage you’d have done to a child would be a lofty goal, indeed. > [@](#): > > No way. This principal won’t, I’d wager, give these kids even the barest inkling of a skoshiest possibility of a snowball’s chance in hell of burning him. Again, you don’t understand public life. That’s the beauty of it. He doesn’t have to “give” them anything (as evidenced by this incident). They’ll just take it. Heh-heh. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2007, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/177 "2007-03-08T12:51:43Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] And maybe you’re the one who has no fucking clue regarding what the “Open” part of Open Mic means. Hint: it ain’t a talent show. [/QUOTE] I missed the edit window. I meant to say it isn’t a talent show in the traditional sense of the word. I’m pretty sure there are no vaudeville two-man dancing horses. I’m pretty sure there are a lot of talented kids trying to express their thoughts and emotions. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2007, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/178 "2007-03-08T13:37:21Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] What he said he \*would have \* allowed and what the school \*actually did \* are diametrically opposed. If they were so fearful of community reaction to the single utterance of the word “vagina”, I have a hard time seeing them allowing the whole performance, which is considerably more controversial, both in subject matter and language. The word is used over 100 times in the entire performance. [/QUOTE] Mm-hm. Likely, as has been mentioned already, to shock people who have bought tickets to The Vagina Monologues and are attending a performance of The Vagina Monologues expecting to hear people talking about vaginas. Never bathe in mercury, **Kalhoun**. You’d sink. Now I’ll let you get back to screeching “You Go, Girls!!!111one111!” ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2007, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/179 "2007-03-08T14:07:56Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] Mm-hm. Likely, as has been mentioned already, to shock people who have bought tickets to The Vagina Monologues and are attending a performance of The Vagina Monologues expecting to hear people talking about vaginas. Never bathe in mercury, **Kalhoun**. You’d sink. Now I’ll let you get back to screeching “You Go, Girls!!!111one111!” [/QUOTE] Um. Yeah, but they already did a reading from **The Vagina Monologues** and weren’t allowed to say the word. What’s the difference? Why would the work, in its entirety, make any difference at all? It wasn’t \*\*The Vagina Monologues \*\* they had a problem with (because they allowed the reading). It was the word “vagina.” They were specifically not allowed to say _that_ word. The surprise factor is meaningless because they had every opportunity to warn the audience (as they would if they performed the complete work) and decided (erroneously, it appears) it was a little to risque for the community. There’s no difference! I don’t get where you think I’m “screeching” about anything. It’s not _about_ “You Go Girls.” It’s about the principal being a wuss and wrongly attributing antiquated, puritan sensibilities to the audience. Would you have advised these kids against taking their stand? They were fully aware of what would happen and stood up for what they believed in. I know some people don’t get that these decisions (and their consequences) are part of the growing process, but teenagers have always tested boundaries and always will. It wouldn’t matter if it’s The Vagina Monologues, the blue mohawk, the tongue piercing, the objectionable T-shirt, mini-skirts, or reading “banned” books. The fact that the principal has the right to punish them has little to do with the point they made (and made _well_, I would add). They’re learning how to pick their battles. The whole incident is probably the most useful thing the girls (or the principal) will learn this year. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2007, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864/180 "2007-03-08T14:15:20Z")
[QUOTE=Lizard] So, why can’t a I get a crowd to show up when i talk about my penis? That monologue would take HOURS. 😃 [/QUOTE] Mine would take 20 minutes, and then I’d fall asleep. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/say-vagina-get-suspended/394864.md?page=10)