# Saying Hot Chick = Being A Misogynist Asshole **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 7, 2018, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925 "2018-09-07T04:12:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/282 "2018-09-09T10:21:27Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And now, as often happens about this time of night, I must bid you adieu. Just out of curiosity, what time zone are you in? Here on the east coast, day is dawning. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/283 "2018-09-09T11:31:45Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > FFS, it really is taking longer than we thought. :dubious: > > Let me try to explain, yet again. The SDMB is not Tinder, or Find a [Fuck.com](http://Fuck.com) It is a place where mostly regular people have come to share wisdom, experiences and to find a forum where, because of relative anonymity, women have not been marginalized because of their gender. ALL of us, men and women alike, have asked stupid questions sometimes, but the inclusiveness of this board has not picked us out because of what’s between our legs. > > But things seem to have changed lately. There seems to be a pox on this board that is hell-bent on putting women ‘back in their place’. The comments are disparaging and derisive, and no matter what we women say, we are put back in our place…because we’re being hysterical liberals, foul-mouthed fishwives or some such bullshit. > > There was a previous thread that I didn’t contribute to, mostly because at that point I hadn’t personally experienced the entrenched sexism and misogyny that other women were highlighting. At THAT point, I was prepared to give the troglodytes the benefit of the doubt. No more. No more at all. > > You fuckers grow the fuck up and understand you are RIGHT out of line with your ‘hur hur let’s troll the wimmins’…it’s not funny, it’s not nice and it makes you out to be complete morons. > > IOW, fuck off. It’s such a compelling argument to hypocritically argue for civility while being uncivil. Many of you who are on your soap box concerning this subject don’t care about broad brushing with offensive stereotypes about other groups. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/284 "2018-09-09T12:12:53Z")
When the other group is "deliberately obtuse mysogynists " I really don’t see the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/285 "2018-09-09T12:41:41Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > It’s tough, isn’t it, to realize that women can be perpetuate the patriarchy just as well as men? And it’s tricky, as a man, to know how to respond to those moments. In general, you probably did right by not interrupting two strangers to try to police their overheard conversation. Or to recognize and convey sarcasm, sometimes. I had a flatmate who thought it was So Cute that her home-country nickname of Mona meant “cute” in Spanish, haha! Yep, every Hispanic person who met her would eventually remark on how _mona_ she was; extremely _mona_. The part she was missing is that _mona_ means “cute” but also “cute and stupid”, the second being much more likely if people have taken a while to say it (you don’t need time to notice someone is cute, but you do need some time to notice they’re dumb as a plank). ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/286 "2018-09-09T13:06:33Z")
> [@Alvin\_Karpis](#): > > Is “dude” equally offensive? Not in the same way, as it is used to address both men and women, or, more accurately in my opinion, boys and girls. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Tonight I’ve found myself wondering which side the women in this thread were on when rap music began referring to women as “bitches” …_etc._ …However I can’t recall any objection at all coming from those with your values. Let us review all the objections you received, and determine the objectors’ values. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > It’s good to know that whataboutism isn’t limited to political issues. :rolleyes: Well, this _is_ a political issue, isn’t it? > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Well, in the real world people don’t think terms like “hot chick” is insulting or demeaning. Yes, they do. ETA: A point that no one has raised in response to the “Well, no woman has every complained to _me_ about being called attractive” is that the woman might have been reasonably afraid of retaliation, from being labelled ‘a trouble-maker’ at work, to having ‘fucking bitch’ yelled at her for the rest of the bus ride. ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/287 "2018-09-09T13:21:45Z")
**Starving Artist** and rap music: You can get away with things in art that you could never do in real life. A woman who stood on the street corner reciting a synopsis of the words to _Love for Sale_ would get arrested, and you can’t go to the art museum dressed like Michelangelo’s _David._ ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/288 "2018-09-09T13:39:31Z")
Art can reflect life without condoning. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/289 "2018-09-09T13:48:26Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Tonight I’ve found myself wondering which side the women in this thread were on when rap music began referring to women as “bitches” and “hoes” and filling its songs with lines like _“Get down on your knees and suck my badass dick,”_ or, _“Baby girl ass jiggle like she want more.”_ > > And of course the use of _“shorty”_ to refer to women or girlfriends. > > People with values similar to mine were critical of this stuff. However I can’t recall any objection at all coming from those with your values. > > Did any of you ever ask whether these guys would want their sisters or daughters spoken of in this way? Did you not feel that such lyrics debased and trivialized all women? Can any of you point to where you found any of this to be even close to “hot chick” on the objectification and disrespect scale, and voiced this opinion? > > And if not, why not? The answer’s plain as your face-nose: _reverse racism_! Ain’t that right, **Hewey**? ---
**Author:** ![Modesty\_Blaise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Modesty\_Blaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Modesty_Blaise)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/290 "2018-09-09T14:01:53Z")
I cannot let this go by: I lost track of the post, but Starving Artist said this: "It’s as natural for a man to notice and comment on a woman’s good looks as it is to comment on the looks of a cool car or a work of art. " Holy shit, dude. You LITERALLY lumped women in with OBJECTS. WTF is wrong with you that you can’t see that this is demeaning? An Six Ate said this: “It might be interesting to create a list of “Women who bailed on The Dope” due to this crap.” Raising my hand. I have left for months at a time because of this kind of thing only to check back in and find some men doubling down on this shit. Wah, people keep telling me I shouldn’t treat women like things and give my opinion about their looks whenever I feel like it. There’s a whole lot of assholish snowflakery going on. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/291 "2018-09-09T14:25:52Z")
I find it very funny in threads like this to hear people say things like “No one has ever complained about this to me” or “No one in real life has a problem with this.” The thing is, when threads like this demonstrate so incredibly well that you don’t listen, why would we believe that no one has said it right to your face a million times? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/292 "2018-09-09T14:33:20Z")
In and of itself, the “I hate politics cause they moved the hot chick I was leering at” comment is :rolleyes: but the doubling and tripling down is downright infuriating. She’s not accomplished at all, her only accomplishment is being hot. It’s natural for men to remark on women as if they were objects. Women who swear deserve to be treated badly. Wah, I don’t know what’s demeaning and what’s not. Women who don’t like being reduced to an object are just brainwashed by evil feminist ideas. It doesn’t bother me as a father of daughters, so why would it bother women. All the women I know love it, so that settles it. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/293 "2018-09-09T14:41:34Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > I am the Mother of 2 attractive young women. I assure you they don’t want to be called ‘hot-chick’ by any one. It is derogatory and demeaning. My young female goes through life being a they/them and being as androgynous as possible to avoid derogatory and demeaning treatment. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/294 "2018-09-09T15:03:41Z")
> [@wonky](#): > > I find it very funny in threads like this to hear people say things like “No one has ever complained about this to me” or “No one in real life has a problem with this.” The thing is, when threads like this demonstrate so incredibly well that you don’t listen, why would we believe that no one has said it right to your face a million times? I am starting to think that the “people in the real world” who don’t object are by definition men. Women aren’t really people, you see. We are pretty things to rate on fuckability, to discuss with teenagers, and ornaments, or not-pretty things to be ignored or disparaged. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/295 "2018-09-09T16:53:57Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Guys, if you wouldn’t like it said to your daughter or wife, it’s not a good idea to say it about somebody else’s daughter or wife. Keep that in mind the next time you are out and about. It’s very simple. I think you’re overestimating some of these old white guys, I can think of one who publically speaks about how hot his daughter is and how he would fuck her if she wasn’t his daughter. But really, it’s communication. I used to go out of my way to introduce one of my employees to my clients and praise his work. There was nothing inappropriate about that and it is something that I thought would be appreciated. But the guy was kind of shy and it made him uncomfortable. So he asked me not to do it anymore. And I didn’t. End of story. No drama. I still do the same with other employees because I feel that, in general, it’s appreciated. And totally appropriate. But I also respect the feelings of this one guy. And it’s not a big deal. I frequently start to write an in-depth response to these threads but I don’t know where to start. I was an extremely attractive woman when I was younger. And I was an outside sales rep, selling and promoting technical products to architects, engineers, designers, and electrical contractors and engineers . It was a job where I was expected to socialize with prospective clients. And, like a lot of the salespeople, I did my own on-site technical setups to make a little extra money. So I spent a lot of time working on construction sites. I was quite good at navigating this landscape but the challenges were pervasive. I dealt with countless men who pretended to have a projects for me as an excuse to try to get close. I worked on construction sites where the men had hard-core pornography ( spread eagle stuff) openly displayed on their workboxes. I had men that I considered friends and had worked closely with for 10 or 15 years kiss me out of the blue because “really, look at you, I’d never forgive myself if I didn’t at least give it shot.” This happened more than once. There was a guy in my professional circle that cut me dead for 5 years because I turned him down…didn’t matter that I turned him down because I was engaged. And mostly the fact that many clients acted like social time with me was a quid pro quo for their continued business. And it’s wasn’t really any one incident, it was just constantly dealing with this, day in and day out. I navigated this because the only alternative was to find a different line of work. There were no bosses or HR departments - I made money if I sold product and if I didn’t sell anything I had no income. That was a power differential that a lot of men were all too happy to try and take advantage of. Especially when I was dealing with sales that frequently carried 5 figure commissions. I dealt with this and considered putting up with this crap as part of the territory but I met a lot of other women in my position that actually lived in a constant low level state of terror. They were afraid to be In a room alone with their bosses or managers because the guy groped them or made a pass once. They had sleepless nights before meeting with certain clients. Some of them couldn’t do it anymore and quit. And they shouldn’t have had to. ---
**Author:** ![Alvin\_Karpis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@Alvin\_Karpis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alvin_Karpis)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/296 "2018-09-09T17:05:58Z")
What about “hot dude”? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/297 "2018-09-09T17:26:51Z")
> [@Alvin\_Karpis](#): > > What about “hot dude”? See post #226: > [@Kimstu](#): > > Nobody cares what you personally think about some woman’s hotness or what you say about it in the company of other consenting people. The problem is when you take it for granted you should be able to freely share your thoughts about her hotness irrespective of the circumstances and the company. If you need the male equivalent spelled out for you (and from your posts here so far I’m suspecting that you do), here it is: **Nobody cares what you personally think about some dude’s hotness or what you say about it in the company of other consenting people. The problem is when you take it for granted you should be able to freely share your thoughts about his hotness irrespective of the circumstances and the company.** ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/298 "2018-09-09T17:29:10Z")
> [@Alvin Karpis](#): > > What about “hot dude”? What about “oblivious, invincibly stupid dumbfuck,” that work for you? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/299 "2018-09-09T17:43:05Z")
> [@Alvin\_Karpis](#): > > What about “hot dude”? I do not believe that you are participating in the discussion in good faith. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/300 "2018-09-09T17:50:08Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Well, in the real world people don’t think terms like “hot chick” is insulting or demeaning. Of course they do, depending on the context. Here, for example, is the real-world website of a real-world HR consulting firm, [instancing the use of that very phrase “hot chick” as part of insulting/demeaning behavior in workplace sexual harassment:](https://www.kelphr.com/blogs/the-troubling-story-of-workplace-sexual-harassment/) > [@](#): > > The troubling story of workplace sexual harassment > > ~ A young girl finds a picture of hers uploaded (without her permission) on Facebook, with comments like “sexy” and “hot chick” written below it. […] > > […] they are real-life experiences faced by people in their workplaces. So, **Starving Artist** , which part of the following do you still not understand? > [@Kimstu](#): > > Nobody cares what you personally think about some woman’s hotness or what you say about it in the company of other consenting people. The problem is when you take it for granted you should be able to freely share your thoughts about her hotness irrespective of the circumstances and the company. The internet is not your personal locker room, and public discussions of politics are not an appropriate place to talk about the way a particular woman makes your penis feel. (Nor, since you asked, are they an appropriate place to use obscene or vulgar expressions from rap music lyrics.) There are plenty of places in the real world and the internet where you’re welcome to talk with other consenting adults, in whatever sort of language you choose, about the way a particular woman makes your penis feel. Your persistent mistake lies in expecting that you should be welcome to share your views about your penisfeelings in **any** circumstances whatever, without regard to whether the subject is relevant or interesting to the other people present. And contrary to your mistaken belief, using mild terms like “hot chick” instead of more extreme ones like “jiggle-ass bitch” or whatever does not make your irrelevant oversharing about your penisfeelings appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_McQwark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@Steve\_McQwark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_McQwark)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/301 "2018-09-09T18:07:39Z")
I know this has been said already, and I hate to do a me-too post, but damn! Kimstu, you are really good at this. You clearly and articulately lay out the issues, and you have the patience of a saint. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925.md?page=16)