# Saying Hot Chick = Being A Misogynist Asshole **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 7, 2018, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925 "2018-09-07T04:12:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/542 "2018-09-12T22:10:27Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Nice excluded middle you have there. Surprised you don’t advocate parading through ISIS ville with a cartoon of Muhammad as a demonstration of commitment. Do you even think when you post? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/543 "2018-09-12T22:11:37Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > I can’t remember the exact exchange, but along the lines of: > Had my other coworker or I been anything other than polite, we would have been pulled up IMMEDIATELY by a Team Leader as our chat function is monitored. Also, had it been condescending or seeking to assume authority, he would have immediately complained to a TL himself. As it was, he became belligerent and stroppy and at that point I asked the TL to intervene, which was done. > > From that point up until Tuesday this week when we got a new (female) TL he had abided by the instruction to keep gun-talk out of the workplace. On Tuesday he had a meltdown at the meeting because DESPITE having been shown how and why gun-talk is not ok, he still feels it’s his right to talk about it regardless. Assuming he was apprised of how and why gun talk made you and your co-workers uncomfortable (the suicide, abuse, etc.) during the meeting Tuesday, then I would say he’s a jerk. > [@kambuckta](#): > > Just like the fellas in this thread who have been told how and why calling someone a hot chick in some contexts is not ok, but still feel it’s their right as red-blooded males to continue to do so. I disagree that his behavior is “just like” those of us in disagreement with you here. As I said before, the gun conversation took place among a small group of co-workers in a private setting. The discussion here, however, is among a large and diverse group of people with differing interests and concerns and is taking place on a general interest public message board where people are assumed to have the right to say what they want within the confines of the board’s rules.There’s also the fact that guns are dangerous objects that many women, in my experience, don’t understand and would still be frightened of even if they did, combined with issues that add to this fear caused by the suicide you mentioned and the abuse some have suffered. All this is a good deal different from the factors coming into play with regard to the propriety of making what some find offensive observations on a woman’s looks, or even of making such observations at all even when benign. Implicit in your comment and the attitude of most of the women posters here is an attitude that seems to speak to a sense of entitlement that…wait for it…is a result of the preferential treatment that women have always received by virtue of their femininity, which is that the woman’s view should be the default. In other words, the attitude seems to be \*“We women don’t like it, and therefore that’s all you men should need to know to become aware that it’s wrong and to stop doing it.” \* But what about the men’s view? Why is our view that behavior such as calling a woman a “hot chick” is not only harmless but complimentary when talking among ourselves or with other women present rather than directly to her. Or our view that if some women find this offensive, they should simply deal with that sense of offense themselves in the same way they and we men do with all the other things in life that annoy or offend us? The crux of the issue here is that we men feel our freedom of speech is increasingly being encroached upon by overly sensitive liberal women who’ve become convinced that men are their enemy. They appear to be seeking out, almost to the point of inventing them, reasons to interpret the slightest things we say as sexist, minimizing and dehumanizing. And based upon this hyper-sensitivity and exaggerated sense of victimhood, they insist that we change our natural behavior because, hey, they’re women, they don’t like how we behave, and by rights we should alter our behavior to accommodate them. This seems to me…imbalanced. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/544 "2018-09-12T22:13:27Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/545 "2018-09-12T22:15:36Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Surprised you don’t advocate parading through ISIS ville with a cartoon of Muhammad as a demonstration of commitment. Well, if ISIS-ville is more convenient… 😃 > [@](#): > > Do you even think when you post? As if thinking ever stopped you. 😃 😃 ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/546 "2018-09-12T22:19:48Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Sounds racist to imply that black folk are conditioned to react violently to words. That said, the presence of mob violence being a “consequence” doesn’t make double standards right. Why do you and others want to encourage an environment of double standards based on race or so-called gender? You know, you can tell me what I’m thinking over and over and over, and you continue sounding like a complete moron due to being overtly and obviously wrong each time. I’m pretty certain you know you’re wrong too, because even you aren’t that dumb. I imagine that you think you’re scoring debate points, but that doesn’t really happen when you just sit there throwing out moronic strawmen left and right and nobody’s impressed. Now, you haven’t actually given me anything non-moronic to respond to here, but I’ll stretch a little and give you some info ex nihilo: In the real world, context exists and matters. Black people have been violently oppressed by the kind of racist shitheads who use the word “nigger” for years; Harlem is an area that (by reputation, at least) suffers from problems with crime and gang activity that aren’t seen elsewhere and which are only indirectly related to race. The scenario that puts you slinging highly provocative terms at people who are assumed to be violent criminals isn’t a claim that black people are, in general, highly violent. The reason it’s not is pretty obvious because only a complete and total moron would ignore the context here. So stop doing that. It doesn’t make you look good. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/547 "2018-09-12T22:20:04Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Well, if ISIS-ville is more convenient… :DAs if thinking ever stopped you. 😃 😃 As if he would recognize it in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/548 "2018-09-12T22:22:07Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > No woman should have to deal with [misogynistic cyber hate speech](https://digitalcommons.law.umaryland.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2143&context=fac_pubs). This link belongs in a GD thread. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/549 "2018-09-12T22:29:34Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This link belongs in a GD thread. It does? I tend to stay out of GD. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/550 "2018-09-12T22:38:34Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > You know, you can tell me what I’m thinking over and over and over, and you continue sounding like a complete moron due to being overtly and obviously wrong each time. I’m pretty certain you know you’re wrong too, because even you aren’t that dumb. I imagine that you think you’re scoring debate points, but that doesn’t really happen when you just sit there throwing out moronic strawmen left and right and nobody’s impressed. > > Now, you haven’t actually given me anything non-moronic to respond to here, but I’ll stretch a little and give you some info ex nihilo: > > In the real world, context exists and matters. Black people have been violently oppressed by the kind of racist shitheads who use the word “nigger” for years; Harlem is an area that (by reputation, at least) suffers from problems with crime and gang activity that aren’t seen elsewhere and which are only indirectly related to race. The scenario that puts you slinging highly provocative terms at people who are assumed to be violent criminals isn’t a claim that black people are, in general, highly violent. The reason it’s not is pretty obvious because only a complete and total moron would ignore the context here. > > So stop doing that. It doesn’t make you look good. Again, I’m not going to a biker bar and talking nonsense about Harley’s either. It’s called common sense. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/551 "2018-09-12T22:40:55Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Again, I’m not going to a biker bar and talking nonsense about Harley’s either. It’s called common sense. Okay, so we have established that you do recognize that “double standards” exist where certain actions and terms elicit different responses and even have different meanings based on context. “Chick” is a term that changes meaning and context based on who is using it and how they’re using it. That’s just common sense. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/552 "2018-09-12T22:46:10Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Okay, so we have established that you do recognize that “double standards” exist where certain actions and terms elicit different responses and even have different meanings based on context. > > “Chick” is a term that changes meaning and context based on who is using it and how they’re using it. > > That’s just common sense. That doesn’t establish the rightness or wrongness of the double standards. By your reasoning you can justify rape or slavery. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/553 "2018-09-12T22:48:25Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > nm Best thing you’ve said in years. I hope we will see more of this. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/554 "2018-09-12T22:49:27Z")
Shall we also put you down for calling a ‘hot chick’ a ‘hot chick’ in front of your wife being a bad idea octopus ? CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/555 "2018-09-12T22:55:36Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Shall we also put you down for calling a ‘hot chick’ a ‘hot chick’ in front of your wife being a bad idea octopus ? > > CMC fnord! Well she’s more likely to say it than me. I don’t typically use the term chick or broad or bird. If I did say it she wouldn’t be offended and that’s not because she’s part of the patriarchy. And I do care what women think. A large part of the reason I didn’t vote for Trump was his language about women. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/556 "2018-09-12T23:11:40Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > That doesn’t establish the rightness or wrongness of the double standards. By your reasoning you can justify rape or slavery. Once again, your attempts to impute reasoning to me swerve wildly and crash into a light pole. So let’s talk about the double standard in question. The term “chick” is quite blatantly a derogatory diminutive; it’s equating the subject with an infant bird. Something cute and fuzzy and weak and immature and helpless. That’s what we’re starting with. It’s been stated that it’s legitimately usable as a pet name - the same context where it’s permissible to call people babies and other diminutives. The context there is that you’re characterizing the person as something you’re fond of and/or want to protect. The word works in that context and as long as the lady likes it, that’s fine. It’s been stated that women use the term to refer to one another - and I’m reminded of the term “nigger”. In both cases you have derogatory terms that have been used to refer to the group which they then start using to refer to themselves. I’ve heard the term “claiming the word as their own”, and there are various examples of this happening with various words and groups. Absolutely none of this makes it ‘okay’ to sling the word around outside of these contexts, because the word _is_ a derogatory diminutive. So, are these double standards, that lovers or members of the oppressed group get to use it but not others, are they “right” or are they “wrong”? Well, the pet name usage makes logical sense, and nobody’s offended, so that sounds pretty right to me. The “it’s our word now” usage has historical precedent, and (when used within the ingroup) causes relatively little observed offense, so that seems right. I’m not seeing the problem with those groups getting exceptions that the rest of us don’t. Do you? Other than a desire to be able to be offensive without consequence, I mean. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/557 "2018-09-12T23:28:21Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Once again, your attempts to impute reasoning to me swerve wildly and crash into a light pole. > > So let’s talk about the double standard in question. The term “chick” is quite blatantly a derogatory diminutive; it’s equating the subject with an infant bird. Something cute and fuzzy and weak and immature and helpless. That’s what we’re starting with. > > It’s been stated that it’s legitimately usable as a pet name - the same context where it’s permissible to call people babies and other diminutives. The context there is that you’re characterizing the person as something you’re fond of and/or want to protect. The word works in that context and as long as the lady likes it, that’s fine. > > It’s been stated that women use the term to refer to one another - and I’m reminded of the term “nigger”. In both cases you have derogatory terms that have been used to refer to the group which they then start using to refer to themselves. I’ve heard the term “claiming the word as their own”, and there are various examples of this happening with various words and groups. > > Absolutely none of this makes it ‘okay’ to sling the word around outside of these contexts, because the word _is_ a derogatory diminutive. > > So, are these double standards, that lovers or members of the oppressed group get to use it but not others, are they “right” or are they “wrong”? > > Well, the pet name usage makes logical sense, and nobody’s offended, so that sounds pretty right to me. > > The “it’s our word now” usage has historical precedent, and (when used within the ingroup) causes relatively little observed offense, so that seems right. > > I’m not seeing the problem with those groups getting exceptions that the rest of us don’t. Do you? Other than a desire to be able to be offensive without consequence, I mean. In addition to Dixie Chicks there are many other musical references to women as so-called chicks. We got the rap portion of Moulin Rouge, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQa7SvVCdZk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQa7SvVCdZk), approximately 2 minutes in. I guess they didn’t get your memo? We got the song “Hippy Chick.” We got the Postmodern Jukebox version of Blurred Lines. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tTZ3rZ89SA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tTZ3rZ89SA) Actually, no chick in there, but Blurred Lines is always good. Then we got Wham!'s Young Guns [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwzoxMPbFys](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwzoxMPbFys) at approximately 3 minutes. Ok, that use is a bit rude. Anyways, the point is, what you find acceptable or not is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/558 "2018-09-12T23:31:32Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > The crux of the issue here is that we men feel our freedom of speech is increasingly being encroached upon by overly sensitive liberal women who’ve become convinced that men are their enemy. :rolleyes: Remember, folks, what originally triggered this whole melodramatic doom-laden meltdown, and the fifteen-odd pages of arguing that preceded it, was the mere fact of a moderator mildly directing two posters in an Elections thread to rein in their irrelevant digression about a “hot chick” spotted in footage of Senate confirmation hearings. Nobody else gave the digressing posters any flak at all about their brief excursion into sexualized talk. Nobody opened a Pit thread to rant about how the male posters in question are “their enemy”. Nobody offered any criticism whatever of the expression used in this brief digression, until some indignant men opened first an ATMB thread and then this Pit thread demanding (over and over) to be told how such an expression could possibly be open to criticism. The people overreacting here aren’t the “overly sensitive liberal women”; they’re the fragile-masculinity sexism-soaked conservative men, inflicting upon the rest of us their prolonged infuriated tantrums over the completely unremarkable observation that it’s not always appropriate in every situation to refer to a woman as a “hot chick”. ---
**Author:** ![expectopatronum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/expectopatronum/32/173_2.png) [@expectopatronum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/expectopatronum)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/559 "2018-09-12T23:34:09Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > :rolleyes: Remember, folks, what originally triggered this whole melodramatic doom-laden meltdown, and the fifteen-odd pages of arguing that preceded it, was the mere fact of a moderator mildly directing two posters in an Elections thread to rein in their irrelevant digression about a “hot chick” spotted in footage of Senate confirmation hearings. > > Nobody else gave the digressing posters any flak at all about their brief excursion into sexualized talk. Nobody opened a Pit thread to rant about how the male posters in question are “their enemy”. > > Nobody offered any criticism whatever of the expression used in this brief digression, until some indignant men opened first an ATMB thread and then this Pit thread demanding (over and over) to be told how such an expression could possibly be open to criticism. > > The people overreacting here aren’t the “overly sensitive liberal women”; they’re the fragile-masculinity sexism-soaked conservative men, inflicting upon the rest of us their prolonged infuriated tantrums over the completely unremarkable observation that it’s not always appropriate in every situation to refer to a woman as a “hot chick”. And this post is a good argument for a like or upvote button. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2018, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/560 "2018-09-12T23:37:28Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > In addition to Dixie Chicks there are many other musical references to women as so-called chicks. > > We got the rap portion of Moulin Rouge, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQa7SvVCdZk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQa7SvVCdZk), approximately 2 minutes in. I guess they didn’t get your memo? > > We got the song “Hippy Chick.” > > We got the Postmodern Jukebox version of Blurred Lines. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tTZ3rZ89SA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tTZ3rZ89SA) Actually, no chick in there, but Blurred Lines is always good. > > Then we got Wham!'s Young Guns [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwzoxMPbFys](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwzoxMPbFys) at approximately 3 minutes. Ok, that use is a bit rude. I’m not sure you really ‘get’ this whole ‘context’ concept. > [@octopus](#): > > Anyways, the point is, what you find acceptable or not is irrelevant. Says who? You? What you find acceptable or not about what I find acceptable or not is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![expectopatronum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/expectopatronum/32/173_2.png) [@expectopatronum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/expectopatronum)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2018, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/561 "2018-09-13T00:18:13Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You have an echo chamber your own already at the other board, where you can post the most idiotic shit imaginable and receive applause for it. Here at the Dope, there are standards and actual rules, and diversity of opinion and the debate or conversation that results from it is considered to be a good thing. > > But you never bring any debate or conversation to an issue. You offer nothing in the way of insight, and you appear to completely lack the ability to form any sort of cogent rebuttal to statements or points of view you disagree with. All you appear capable of doing is complaining and spouting prejudicial nonsense that you couldn’t back up if your life depended on it. Are you still bitter that you got perma boxed at Giraffe Boards? Do you still frantically jerk your micro-penis every time you see your name come up in the snark thread? You obviously either followed the thread regularly or did daily searches for your name because whenever you got mentioned prior to your perma boxing you showed up within hours to defend your honor. At least now you can’t involve the board in your climax. Also, it makes me so happy that the straw that broke the camel’s back for you over there was a response you made to me which was deemed gross enough that it warranted sticking you in the box for good, after which you flounced. Also, it’s interesting that after I point out that I have indeed made a (vitriolic) rebuttal to you in this thread, you elect not to respond. Probably because there’s no response you can make to go along with your chosen narrative of the hysterical wimmin folk needing fainting couches and safe spaces. Real talk, bro, you’re just a piece of shit. You made yourself a laughingstock of this and all the splinter boards during the whole Penn State clusterfuck, and you’ll never recover from that. You will forever be kiddie-rapist-defending, paper towel tube guy. You just like to pretend everyone else is crazy and you’re the persecuted one. They’re not. The problem is you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925.md?page=29)