# Saying Hot Chick = Being A Misogynist Asshole **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 7, 2018, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925 "2018-09-07T04:12:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/61 "2018-09-07T08:48:43Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Do you really think that the poster who mentioned that the “hot chick” was moved so Condi Rice could be seated was aggressively demanding attention, and from women, no less? > > I’d bet that he wasn’t thinking of women at all when he made his comment, and that he had no idea anyone was going to find his comment objectionable. He was merely lamenting that a woman he enjoyed looking at was moved out of sight so as to lend greater credence to the merit of Kavanaugh’s supporters. > > I’d bet dollars to donuts that he had no other thought in mind at the time, and yet typically, the feminists on the board who find it objectionable automatically seek to villainize him and accuse him of “assholism” and deliberately misogynistic intent, which, of course, is exactly the kind of behavior I’ve been criticizing all along. Why not just state your opinion that the term is out of line? Why do you have to immediately jump to the conclusion and then state as fact that he was behaving in a deliberately “assholish” way? Yet he started this thread. Why do you think that was? > [@](#): > > Believe it or not, men don’t actually go through life seeking to find ways to piss women off. You’ve been doing it for a shitload of years now SGotPL. What’s your excuse? ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/62 "2018-09-07T08:50:08Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > “Now, now, y’all are becoming hysterical [😉](https://www.google.com/search?num=100&newwindow=1&q=Where+did+the+word+hysterical+come+from%3F&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiZ0ffbvqjdAhXEEJAKHb_2AP4Qzmd6BAgNEBo&biw=1067&bih=449) because overly zealous left-wing crackpots are making y’all take things waaay to seriously, retire to the drawing room and compose yourselves!” > > CMC fnord! > That links can be hidden in smilies should not be overlooked. Can I have benzos or smelling salts? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/63 "2018-09-07T08:52:43Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > My guess is that if you’re like most of the plain or unattractive women I’ve known during my life, you’d feel inferior and resentful of the fact that the attractive girls get all the attention The fact that in our gender-biased society many women feel resentful about not being good-looking, like the fact that many men feel resentful about not being tall, is not a reason to **embrace** society’s sexist obsession with focusing on people’s appearance. On the contrary. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > So a certain degree of male attention is just a fact of life. The variable is how women decide to respond to it. You can either accept that it’s just a fact of life deal with it the best you can and go on with your life, or you can get pissed off and shake your fist at the heavens, or at men in general, and rail about the injustice of it all. We can do both: get pissed off and fight back without letting it ruin our lives. In the process, we as a society can also start changing our typical expectations about what sorts of “male attention” men should feel entitled to subject women to. Just as white people in general have now learned it’s not socially acceptable to use the n-word, and heterosexual people in general have now learned it’s not socially acceptable to make fun of and ostracize homosexual people, men can learn it’s not socially acceptable to harass and objectify women. Even though a lot of them will grumble and whine about it in the beginning, just as white people and heterosexuals grumbled and whined when **they** started to realize they were going to have to give up their bigoted behavior. What’s **not** going to work any more is condescendingly telling women _“just put up with it because nobody’s going to make any effort to improve it”_, though. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/64 "2018-09-07T08:59:26Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > **GOD YES** > > You’re offering trading 40 years of gropes, attempted rapes, attempted kidnappings, attempts to convince me to prostitute myself, and gender-based insults to my intelligence > > for 40 years of occasionally needing to physically cut into some waiter or retail-worker’s path in order to get service. > > And note that the “attempts” in those 40 years stayed at that level only because every time I was able to defend myself. You have no fucking idea. > > Fuck yeah! Well, all I can say then is that your experience was unique. It would be nice if we had some way to poll a couple thousand ordinary women (and take out the minor stuff like not getting a waiter’s attention or so-called insults to your intelligence, as men believe it or not, can and do encounter the same as well) and get truthful and unbiased answers as to how often any of the offenses you’ve mentioned happened to them. My estimation is that they’ve rarely or never experienced most of them, and to the degree they have, most men have likely faced threats of violent encounters from men at a similar rate. In other words, a certain percentage of men present a potential for violence. Men come in for some of it, women come in for some of it. IMO, more women need to realize this and stop thinking that their femininity is the font of all male misbehavior. They’d be a lot less convinced that they are being singled out for wrongdoing by men if so, and therefore a lot less prone to view men as the enemy of women and instead realize that both sexes are the recipients of dangerous behavior by a certain small percentage of the male population overall. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/65 "2018-09-07T09:01:21Z")
Everybody’s experience is unique. Sadly, being an asshole isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/66 "2018-09-07T09:01:33Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > {…} He was merely lamenting that a woman he enjoyed looking at was moved out of sight {…} Ya can’t make this shit up! See, THAT’S the problem, women don’t exist so that they can be objects of his personal pleasure. I do wonder if the woman in question would appreciate the notion that her value is measured by whether she is worth looking at? CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/67 "2018-09-07T09:01:47Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > What’s **not** going to work any more is condescendingly telling women _“just put up with it because nobody’s going to make any effort to improve it”_, though. I don’t think that’s what he’s saying. He’s saying, ‘That is what women actually _want_’ despite umpty-gazillion people telling him otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/68 "2018-09-07T09:05:24Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’d bet that he wasn’t thinking of women at all when he made his comment Well, by the very nature of the comment itself, it’s obvious that he was thinking about a particular woman and his opinion of her attractiveness, and expecting his audience to accept that his opinion of her attractiveness was the aspect of the situation worth talking about. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > Believe it or not, men don’t actually go through life seeking to find ways to piss women off. Not all of them, certainly; and, let’s hope, not even most of them. What most men **do** have in common, though, is a societally nurtured assumption that their expressions of their opinions about women—whether intended to piss them off, to compliment them, to frighten them, or whatever—are intrinsically important and entitled to attention. And that it’s outrageous and unfair to criticize men for expressing such opinions. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/69 "2018-09-07T09:10:20Z")
Welcome to the Starving Artist show s20e99! The St.Ar will react to the audience with completely irrelevant and mostly made up anecdotes about the St.Ar! He will provide you with insights into his worldview! He will tell you what he thinks! He will tell you what you should think! He will tell you what you said! He will tell you what he said! (Sometimes the meaning gets lost in in the actual words) He will not read your posts! He will not click your links! He will not consider any viewpoint but his own! He will post! Again! And again! And again! Just to repeat! Welcome to the Starving Artist show s20e99! He’s not misogynistic, he’s just not a woman. He’s not racist, he’s just not black. He doesn’t care what other people think, he’s not them. He’s the St.Ar! (Cardboard tubes not included) ---
**Author:** ![blob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blob/32/489_2.png) [@blob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blob)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/70 "2018-09-07T09:18:56Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Certainly, it would have been had I done it to her face. > > I didn’t. Um, no. Do you have any idea of what a gentleman actually is, or does? (rhetorical, it’s obvious from what you post) ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/71 "2018-09-07T09:19:21Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > The fact that in our gender-biased society many women feel resentful about not being good-looking, like the fact that many men feel resentful about not being tall, is not a reason to **embrace** society’s sexist obsession with focusing on people’s appearance. On the contrary. > > We can do both: get pissed off and fight back without letting it ruin our lives. In the process, we as a society can also start changing our typical expectations about what sorts of “male attention” men should feel entitled to subject women to. > > Just as white people in general have now learned it’s not socially acceptable to use the n-word, and heterosexual people in general have now learned it’s not socially acceptable to make fun of and ostracize homosexual people, men can learn it’s not socially acceptable to harass and objectify women. Even though a lot of them will grumble and whine about it in the beginning, just as white people and heterosexuals grumbled and whined when **they** started to realize they were going to have to give up their bigoted behavior. > > What’s **not** going to work any more is condescendingly telling women _“just put up with it because nobody’s going to make any effort to improve it”_, though. As usual, virtually nothing of what I’ve actually said makes it intact through the **Kimstu** translation machine. However I have a busy day tomorrow and must call it a night. I realize that I’m largely spitting in the wind while simultaneously tilting at windmills anyway, so in reality there’ll be little consequence to pointing out how and where you were wrong in all this. Meanwhile, the world will still turn and men will still refer to exceptionally attractive women as hot chicks, and women and girls will still spend billions on makeup and clothing in an effort to try to be hot chicks because of the advantages and sense of pride it provides them. And cranky lefties seeing enemies everywhere will continue to whinge about it, blame men, and ceaselessly go about trying to pound the round pegs of their ill-considered idealism through the square holes of human nature. C’est la vie. ---
**Author:** ![blob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blob/32/489_2.png) [@blob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blob)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/72 "2018-09-07T09:29:26Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > and sense of pride 😃 You’re hilarious. I hope your stand-up gig goes well tonight. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/73 "2018-09-07T09:37:38Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > As usual, virtually nothing of what I’ve actually said makes it intact through the **Kimstu** translation machine. As usual, you assume that if my comments on your remarks make them sound less positive or persuasive than you intended them to sound, it must be because I’ve misunderstood or misrepresented you. The alternative explanation seems never to have occurred to you. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > Meanwhile, the world will still turn and men will still refer to exceptionally attractive women as hot chicks Yup. And eventually, more and more men will come to realize that calling exceptionally attractive women hot chicks **in contexts where expressing their opinion of the woman’s attractiveness is irrelevant or inappropriate** makes them look like misogynist assholes, and is not considered socially acceptable. And in consequence, men’s behavior will change to reflect the new social mores about whether and when it’s socially acceptable to call exceptionally attractive women hot chicks. Just as the behavior of white people changed to reflect new social mores about whether and when it was socially acceptable to use racial epithets for black people. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/74 "2018-09-07T09:48:43Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Yup. And eventually, more and more men will come to realize that calling exceptionally attractive women hot chicks **in contexts where expressing their opinion of the woman’s attractiveness is irrelevant or inappropriate** makes them look like misogynist assholes… To those inclined to view them that way, yes. But this is merely opinion, not fact. Other people can and do disagree, and they have just as much right to their opinion as you do yours. > [@Kimstu](#): > > and is not considered socially acceptable. Oh, so you speak for society now? Who was it that said she couldn’t believe Nixon won; nobody she knew voted for him? I submit that the liberal bubble you live in is not shared by society as a whole. And with that, I’m out. 🙂 Later, 'tater. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/75 "2018-09-07T10:08:28Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Other people can and do disagree, and they have just as much right to their opinion as you do yours. Sure, but that doesn’t make their opinions above criticism, any more than mine is. You seem to be very indignant just because a man who expressed an opinion about a woman’s appearance is being told by other opinion-havers that they think his expression of that opinion in that situation was offensive or inappropriate. Well, tough: he expressed his opinion, and other people told him what they thought about his opinion. Maybe you should try not being so oversensitive and cranky about it? > [@Starving Artist](#): > > Oh, so you speak for society now? No; society speaks for society. When more and more people start objecting that a certain type of behavior is crude, sexist and inappropriate, that’s a sign of changing mores about what is socially acceptable. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > I submit that the liberal bubble you live in is not shared by society as a whole. You may not have noticed, but objecting to the gratuitous sexualization of women in contexts that aren’t about the women’s appearance is not really confined to a “liberal bubble” anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/76 "2018-09-07T10:16:51Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > You may not have noticed, but objecting to the gratuitous sexualization of women in contexts that aren’t about the women’s appearance is not really confined to a “liberal bubble” anymore. In fact, it never has been. One of the things I find irritating about this whole issue is that it often gets presented as if respect for women was new or some sort of leftist thing. It’s neither. But the people who think that we shouldn’t bother our pretty little heads deciding what we want, nor bother their ears with saying what we want, present rudeness as “tradition” and even call it manners. In the words of my Dad, whose left toenail was more of a gentleman than SA will ever be, “‘ladies first’ is just an excuse to look at your butts.” ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/77 "2018-09-07T10:31:10Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > One of the things I find irritating about this whole issue is that it often gets presented as if respect for women was new or some sort of leftist thing. It’s neither. Well, it **is** arguably a bit new and leftist to maintain that women deserve to be routinely treated with decency and respect in a non-sexualized manner simply because they’re human beings, rather than because they’re meeting heavily gendered expectations of “ladylike” behavior focused on ministering to men’s feelings and giving men attention. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/78 "2018-09-07T10:40:46Z")
No. It is new in many societies, but not where I grew up. But then, until very recently our neighbors called us “the Basque matriarcate”, a line which has now been left as an in-joke. And the only thing that makes it “leftist” is the appropriation of “tradition” by people who misuse that word. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/79 "2018-09-07T10:41:52Z")
I think “hot stud” would be _nearly_ equally inappropriate since it equally dismisses the object’s political intelligence to just talk about his looks. You’d have fewer people objecting because it’s less likely to be the final straw amongst many for a man, but if someone _sincerely_ objected to someone at a hearing being called a “hot stud”, it wouldn’t be kosher to pat him on the head and say “you deserve it, and you like it anyway!” Because we’ve heard that in lots of other situations. Using simply the _term_ “hot chick” is not very objectionable to me when it is context appropriate. But even then it seems a bit dated, like “negro”. So if you said “when I was young I went to the bar that had all the hot chicks” it would seem weird and somewhat ironic, but not over the line on a message board unless you went out of your way to use the phrase as much as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2018, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925/80 "2018-09-07T11:06:57Z")
So if two guys see a nice looking women, and one utters to the other, “Hey, check out that hot chick,” it is considered misogynistic? :dubious: I wish I had a nickel every time I heard one of my daughters say, “He’s such a hot guy.” The world has gone mad. How I reminisce about the pre-PC era… ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-hot-chick-being-a-misogynist-asshole/820925.md?page=5)