# Saying I'm Fucked Doesn't Even Begin To Cover It **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 28, 2006, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-im-fucked-doesnt-even-begin-to-cover-it/354641 "2006-04-28T19:23:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2006, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-im-fucked-doesnt-even-begin-to-cover-it/354641/21 "2006-04-29T01:09:55Z")
[QUOTE=Xploder] Someone stole your cat? [/QUOTE] Actually, it’s worse than that. I assumed that someone stole her because she was more like a dog than a cat, since she followed me where ever I went and was always waiting to greet me when I came home. I put a sign up and one of my neighbors called me tonight to tell me that they’d found her body. She’d been ripped apart by a pack of stray dogs. Best damn pet I ever owned. As for the value of the items missing, I don’t really know. I don’t recall seeing them, and the inventory list the police showed me on them was 20+ years old, so the value on them certainly would have increased by now. And paying for the stuff certainly beats a felony conviction for something I didn’t do. I’m not sure that I know of too many people IRL who’s vouching for my character would do any good. (Not that I hang around with anyone who’s a criminal [to my knowledge]). ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2006, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-im-fucked-doesnt-even-begin-to-cover-it/354641/22 "2006-04-29T01:59:59Z")
Aw shit, man. I’m sorry your kitty was attacked. Hugs, **Tuckerfan**. I feel your pain. Best wishes on the bum rap-call if you’d like to unload. ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2006, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-im-fucked-doesnt-even-begin-to-cover-it/354641/23 "2006-04-29T02:06:05Z")
OMG, I was just getting ready to ask you why you thought your kitty was stolen and to wish you luck in getting her back - then I saw your last post. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2006, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-im-fucked-doesnt-even-begin-to-cover-it/354641/24 "2006-04-29T02:22:18Z")
**Tuckerfan** , I’m almost afraid to ask. Did the tornados strike anywhere near you? I was out of town, but heard that there was one in Gallatin as well as the one in Goodlettsville. Geez. Sorry about your troubles. Maybe your cat will come home and things will settle down at work. ---
**Author:** ![NothingMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b77776/32.png) [@NothingMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NothingMan)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2006, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-im-fucked-doesnt-even-begin-to-cover-it/354641/25 "2006-04-29T03:04:45Z")
So **Zoe** …gonna need any help getting that foot out of your mouth? Though at least the sentiment was nice. Sorry **Tuckerfan** - I’d like to believe that the innocent are redeemed in the end. Hope thats true in your case. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2006, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-im-fucked-doesnt-even-begin-to-cover-it/354641/26 "2006-04-29T03:05:24Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] Maybe your cat will come home [/QUOTE] At this stage, let’s hope not. last thing he needs is a Stephen King story come to life. (Cat died, see earlier post.) I remember being falsely accused of a major theft at a store I worked at part time. I still can’t understand their reasoning behind accusing me, but they tried to get me to sign some statement. Yeah, like I would actually agree to their lies? Well, they tried to tell me I woud fired if I didn’t. The cop taking care of the case was there in the office with us. When my boss said this, the cop tels him that actually, a threat like that would just about invalidate any case they thought they might have against me. I asked the policeman if was going to arrest me. He said no. I told bossman to fuck off and quit right there. I gave the policeman my home phone and said he wanted to, he could ask me anything he wanted to know. He never called. The real theif got caught red handed with a simlar later theft. Bossfuckhead never offered any apology. 20 yrs ago and I’m still pissed. Anyways, don’t admit to anything you didn’t do. However, I think the doorbusting might well be the deciding factor here. IANAL, but please, do talk to one if you haven’t already. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2006, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-im-fucked-doesnt-even-begin-to-cover-it/354641/27 "2006-04-29T03:56:53Z")
I don’t see how Tuckerfan can be held criminally liable for the missing items. Assuming what he said in the OP is true, he didn’t pop the door. He allowed someone else to pop it, they looked in, shut the door and left. He may be guilty of some accessory to criminal damage or some minor thing for letting the guy break open the door but not for the theft. It would be like if a kid threw a rock through a window and days later someone unrelated crawled through the broken window and robbed the house. Guilty of vandalism or damage to property, sure. Guilty of robbery or theft? No. Not to mention that there’s reasonable doubt all over the place. None of the items in Tuckerfan’s possession, a number of other people with access to the office space, no witnesses and (assuming he didn’t actually enter the office and really just glanced in) no fingerprints or other forensic evidence putting him in the room. I can’t imagine anyone even trying to go to bat with a criminal case with that kind of “evidence.” From a civil standpoint, before I offered to pay for something I didn’t take the first thing I’d do is make the owner prove that the things were stolen at all. Showing me an inventory sheet that’s “20+ years old” doesn’t prove that the items were in the office to begin with, much less that they were stolen from it. And, excuse me, inventory sheets for “personal items” stored at the business? Smells fishy to me. And let me add my condolonces for your cat. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2006, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-im-fucked-doesnt-even-begin-to-cover-it/354641/28 "2006-04-29T04:58:30Z")
Allowing someone to pop a door on property that is not yours displays an appalling lack of common sense at best, and could quite likely be criminal negligence. ---
**Author:** ![Hung\_Mung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hung\_Mung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hung_Mung)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2006, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-im-fucked-doesnt-even-begin-to-cover-it/354641/29 "2006-04-29T05:20:30Z")
Goddamn. I emailed you, Tuck. Drop me a line if you want to have some coffee sometime and talk about stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2006, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-im-fucked-doesnt-even-begin-to-cover-it/354641/30 "2006-04-29T05:34:53Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Allowing someone to pop a door on property that is not yours displays an appalling lack of common sense at best, and could quite likely be criminal negligence. In looking through the [criminal offenses section of the Tennessee code](http://198.187.128.12/tennessee/lpext.dll/Infobase/19893?fn=document-frame.htm&f=templates&2.0) I don’t find a crime called “criminal negligence.” In looking at the crimes of Theft of Property, Burglary, Criminal Trespass and Vandalism, the only one of the four it appears Tuckerfan may be guilty of, based on his description of events in the OP, is Vandalism. > [@TN code 39-14-103](#): > > Theft of property > > A person commits theft of property if, with intent to deprive the owner of property, the person knowingly obtains or exercises control over the property without the owner’s effective consent. > [@TN code 39-14-402](#): > > Burglary > > (a) A person commits burglary who, without the effective consent of the property owner: > > (1) Enters a building other than a habitation (or any portion thereof) not open to the public, with intent to commit a felony, theft or assault; > > (2) Remains concealed, with the intent to commit a felony, theft or assault, in a building; > > (3) Enters a building and commits or attempts to commit a felony, theft or assault; or > > (4) Enters any freight or passenger car, automobile, truck, trailer, boat, airplane or other motor vehicle with intent to commit a felony, theft or assault or commits or attempts to commit a felony, theft or assault. > [@TN code 39-14-405](#): > > Criminal trespass > > (a) A person commits criminal trespass who, knowing the person does not have the owner’s effective consent to do so, enters or remains on property, or a portion thereof. Knowledge that the person did not have the owner’s effective consent may be inferred where notice against entering or remaining is given by: > > (1) Personal communication to the person by the owner or by someone with apparent authority to act for the owner; > > (2) Fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders; > > \ > > (c) For purposes of this section, “enter” means intrusion of the entire body. > [@TN code 39-14-408](#): > > Vandalism > > (a) Any person who knowingly causes damage to or the destruction of any real or personal property of another or of the state, the United States, any county, city, or town knowing that the person does not have the owner’s effective consent is guilty of an offense under this section. He didn’t obtain or exercise control over the property, he had no intent to deprive the owner of his property, he didn’t enter the office with the intent of committing a theft, felony or assault, he didn’t intrude his entire body into the office. He did allow the lock to be popped, so, vandalism, but other than that I don’t see anything in the TN code that says to me that he has any other possible criminal liability. IANAL, etc. but were I in this position I wouldn’t do a thing that indicates I am accepting any criminal or civil liability of any kind for these thefts, including offering to pay for the stolen items. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2006, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-im-fucked-doesnt-even-begin-to-cover-it/354641/31 "2006-04-29T05:45:02Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] IANAL, etc. but were I in this position I wouldn’t do a thing that indicates I am accepting any criminal or civil liability of any kind for these thefts, including offering to pay for the stolen items. [/QUOTE] Well, hell, I don’t argue with this sentence at all. He should absolutely not do such a thing. Nevertheless, it was a locked door, it was not his property, and he should not have allowed it to be opened in his presence or with his assistance or enouragement. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2006, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-im-fucked-doesnt-even-begin-to-cover-it/354641/32 "2006-04-29T06:10:42Z")
talk to a lawyer **now**. all this “IANAL but…” stuff is worth the pixels they’re printed on . if they’re wrong, it’ll be your ass in jail/on the hook, not theirs. ask that the thread be closed, see a IRL lawyer now. sorrry about your cat. ---
**Author:** ![matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@matt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2006, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-im-fucked-doesnt-even-begin-to-cover-it/354641/33 "2006-04-29T06:31:33Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] Nevertheless, it was a locked door, it was not his property, and he should not have allowed it to be opened in his presence or with his assistance or enouragement. [/QUOTE] It was a bit of a brainfart, but context and the impression given are important. The guy was clearing out an old parts store, possibly with a view to selling, refurbishing or demolishing it. He may have given **Tuckerfan** the impression that he wanted the place reduced to an empty shell. **Tuckerfan** , I’m sorry you’re having such a rough time. Don’t beat yourself up about it too much. This is basically a bad communication SNAFU. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2006, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-im-fucked-doesnt-even-begin-to-cover-it/354641/34 "2006-04-29T13:11:39Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] Well, hell, I don’t argue with this sentence at all. He should absolutely not do such a thing. Nevertheless, it was a locked door, it was not his property, and he should not have allowed it to be opened in his presence or with his assistance or enouragement. [/QUOTE] I’m not saying he wasn’t _stupid_, just that IMHO he wasn’t _criminally_ stupid. ---
**Author:** ![bobkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobkitty)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2006, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-im-fucked-doesnt-even-begin-to-cover-it/354641/35 "2006-04-29T13:31:48Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] What who said? [/QUOTE] Yes, well, those four-letter “O” names so close together confused me. My apologies for the mistaken attribution. At least I made you laugh! ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2006, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-im-fucked-doesnt-even-begin-to-cover-it/354641/36 "2006-04-29T13:54:13Z")
**wring** is right- get yourself a lawyer right now. If the hubby could practice in TN, I’d be emailing you right now, but he can’t. You need to protect yourself, and you need someone in your corner immediately. Go do it. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2006, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-im-fucked-doesnt-even-begin-to-cover-it/354641/37 "2006-04-29T14:56:06Z")
And I thought I had a bad week. Sounds like you inadvertently aided and abetted a thief. Dishonest people suck. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2006, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-im-fucked-doesnt-even-begin-to-cover-it/354641/38 "2006-04-29T15:41:34Z")
Actually, how honest is the owner of the place? How likely is it that he was waiting for this development for some time so that he could conveniently claim to have lost some “valuable personal items” after someone inevitably got into the office? “Say, is _everything_ for sale in the whole building?” "Yep. Everything goes. Mwaaahahahahahaha! And dude. I’m sorry about your cat. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2006, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-im-fucked-doesnt-even-begin-to-cover-it/354641/39 "2006-04-29T16:26:12Z")
If Tuckerfan has no criminal background (and I’m assuming he doesn’t) and the only thing connecting him to the disappearance is purely circumstantial and there’s more than a reasonable doubt that he did not steal it himself and was not party to the theft, can he conceivably be held liable? I’ve known people who _DID_ steal from my employers and everybody knew damned good and well that they stole but the charges were dropped for lack of hard evidence. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2006, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-im-fucked-doesnt-even-begin-to-cover-it/354641/40 "2006-04-29T16:39:52Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] In looking through the [criminal offenses section of the Tennessee code](http://198.187.128.12/tennessee/lpext.dll/Infobase/19893?fn=document-frame.htm&f=templates&2.0) I don’t find a crime called “criminal negligence.” . [/QUOTE] IANAL either, but am one year and one bar exam away from being one. Criminal negligence is gross negligence so extreme that it is punishable as a crime. We’re normally talking about negligence resulting in someone’s death. Trust me, allowing someone to “pop a lock” on a door is pretty dumb, but IMHO, it’s extremely unlikely to be considered criminally negligent to the point where it would be punishable as a crime, by itself. And I’m not speaking as a lawyer here at all, but I see absolutely no theft here. There’s no intent, there’s no carrying away. At the end of the day, the guy allowed someone to pick a lock. That’s it. **Tuckerfan** , if I were you, I wouldn’t be losing huge amounts of sleep over going to jail. But of course, as everyone else here has said, talk to a lawyer. Since money is obviously probably going to be an object, do you personally know any lawyers? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-im-fucked-doesnt-even-begin-to-cover-it/354641.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saying-im-fucked-doesnt-even-begin-to-cover-it/354641.md?page=3)